led + cfl lights question

az2000 said:

I agree with the position you advocate. But, I'd suggest using LED "lightbulbs" (<<link) instead of CFL. CFLs typically have 60-70 lumens per watt.[1] Those Cree LEDs (in the link) are around 90 l/w after removing the gummy protector film from the glass diffusion globe. There are other bulbs at the end of that article with clear globes and about 105 l/w. (Probably about what the Crees are, but some lumens are sacrificed for diffusion.).

It's all the same concept. Just a matter of getting the most light for the same watts. With those LED "lightbulbs" you might only have to use 75w equiv bulbs for the same results as a 100w equiv CFL.

[1] Your 23w @ 1800 come out at a remarkable 78 l/w. Usually 23w CFLs are 1600 lumens, or 70 l/w. Not sure if those are premium bulbs or there was a typo somewhere.

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I just stumbled onto this article from 2011 about a bulb cree was making for the L Prize 21st century lamp competition. http://www.cree.com/news-and-events/cree-news/press-releases/2011/august/110801-21st-century-lamp
From the article- "Third-party testing by independent lab OnSpeX confirmed that Cree’s lamp delivered more than 1,330 lumens and consumes only 8.7 watts. The lamp uses Cree TrueWhite Technology to deliver a high-quality, energy-efficient light with a CRI of 91 at a warm white color of 2800 K." That's ~153 l/w. That was three years ago. I want them to finish and release this bulb!

nomofatum said:

So when you trading in the T5's for the red and blues, without supplementing (except UVB of course?)

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Not at all, My T5's set up the way I have em, makes a purple grow room and A+ bud, That was what my comment was in response to

RM3 said:

Not at all, My T5's set up the way I have em, makes a purple grow room and A+ bud, That was what my comment was in response to

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Your room may be a bit purple, but it's not a just purple like I was talking about. You have a lot more than 1 red wavelength and 1 blue wavelength. You have whites, blues, UVs, and maybe more. You have a whole slew of different wavelengths, and that is a good thing.

Ace Yonder said:

I just stumbled onto this article from 2011 about a bulb cree was making
... That's ~153 l/w. That was three years ago. I want them to finish and release this bulb!

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In 2010 Cree anounced they broke the 200 l/w barrier. Last May they announced the commercial availability of that performance:

"XLamp® XP-L LED, the first commercially available single-die LED to achieve breakthrough efficacy of up to 200 lumens per watt (LPW) at 350 mA"
-- http://www.cree.com/News-and-Events/Cree-News/Press-Releases/2014/May/XPL-intro

XP-L is the diode the new Area-51 models will have. (<<link). Expected in April. (<<link)

I like the simplicity of the E27-base (screw-in) lightbulbs. No cooling fans, distributed lighting with more sources of light from different angles. They're ~100 LPW for the Cree A19 lightbulb (Home Depot) and ~110 for the SMD 5730 "corncob" bulbs sold on AliExpress (presuming they're not counterfeit).

You can get a fanless 140 LPW from COBs if run at lower current and on larger heatsinks. That requires a considerable investment in aluminum heatsinks and cobs (need more for total lumens when running them at lower current). I'm sure it pays for itself, but I think even at lower power they're still not the best choice for smaller grow spaces. Seems they still can't be placed right up against the plant for diffuse light like the Cree A19 (Home Depot) bulbs.

T5HO is about 92 LPW. The Cree (Home Depot) bulbs are ~92 LPW with their frosted diffusion globe (would be ~100 LPW with that broken off, which some people do -- but you need to put plug it into a GFI to make those exposed surfaces safe). The SMD 5730 is about ~105-110 LPW in its clear plastic globe (not as diffuse).

So, it's an interesting time right now as LED tech is turning a corner. Commercial brands have COB lights they'll release soon (140-160 LPW). A51's XP-L. Over time, as the manufacturing processes mature, these efficiencies will make it into the screw-in lightbulbs.

I don't see any reason to use CFL right now unless it's a cold climate and a person needs the heat from CFLs. T5HO is on the fence with me. It's fairly efficient but doesn't have great penetration. You can get these 90-100 LPW LEDs in a PAR38 spotlight (18w actual) for greater penetration.

I used to grow T5HO. I still have the fixtures and thought about using them this winter. But, the options for concentrating them or breaking them up into more discrete, aimable, positionable sources of light seems like a downside compared to the equally efficient "lightbulbs" that are now available. Maybe T5HO offers something I'm overlooking.

Either way: grow light technology is turning a corner right now. In a couple years I think T5HO will be comparatively the same as CFL is today. I don't think the high-powered COBs and XP-L chips are going to do it because T5HO is good for that up-close diffuse light. But, in a couple years those efficiencies will find their way into softer lightbulbs.

az2000 said:

I don't see any reason to use CFL right now unless it's a cold climate and a person needs the heat from CFLs. T5HO is on the fence with me. It's fairly efficient but doesn't have great penetration. You can get these 90-100 LPW LEDs in a PAR38 spotlight (18w actual) for greater penetration.

I used to grow T5HO. I still have the fixtures and thought about using them this winter. But, the options for concentrating them or breaking them up into more discrete, aimable, positionable sources of light seems like a downside compared to the equally efficient "lightbulbs" that are now available. Maybe T5HO offers something I'm overlooking.

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You should check out my threads

https://www.rollitup.org/t/are-they-done-yet-what-does-done-look-like.853978/

https://www.rollitup.org/t/light.853779/

nomofatum said:

Lol, are you trying to argue for group intelligence? People are more interested in making their room look cool than actually reading up on what's being output by the options. I have to admit a purple grow room looks cool, but purple grow rooms don't make A+ bud.

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i
no idea what youre even talkin about. group intelligence? i got a LED because of heat issues not to have it look cool.. and alot of panels have red/blue/ and 2 different types of white.

jb4TWENTY said:

i
no idea what youre even talkin about. group intelligence? i got a LED because of heat issues not to have it look cool.. and alot of panels have red/blue/ and 2 different types of white.

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Group intelligence = Belief that if the majority or a large group of people are doing something, that something must be a good idea

Lot's of people believe this, but when tested groups end up being very very stupid, almost as bad as the lemming myth.

The two different white ones are cool white and warm white. That is what I use, I do have 150w of blue and 150w of red led's but I don't use them, they are a waste.

2 heads may be better than 1, but 200 heads are not, that is the reality.

2 average heads = 1 smart guy
200 average heads = 1 mentally handicapped guy

so eveyone should use what you're using? i bet you could find a LED journal where theyre using red and blue and their grow is better than yours. youhad a bad experience using red and blue doesn't mean bash it. the problem was probably the grower.

just got this hps for 75$ http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0055F80H0/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

jb4TWENTY said:

so eveyone should use what you're using? i bet you could find a LED journal where theyre using red and blue and their grow is better than yours. youhad a bad experience using red and blue doesn't mean bash it. the problem was probably the grower.

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Hell no, I want to see people using all sorts of stuff. I would just encourage folks to review the following:
1. A chart showing the useful wavelengths of light.
2. A wavelength to color temperature conversion chart.
3. The technical output specs of the same series LED in Red, Blue, Warm White, and Cool White.

Let what you learn from those three things be your guide.

I think running just red and blue makes for bland bud. Add some UVB and some white to your red and blue and taste the difference.

Dubbz415 said:

just got this hps for 75$ http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0055F80H0/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

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Shows $67.50 for me.

nomofatum said:

Shows $67.50 for me.

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yea it was but plus tax 6.21$

so you bought your 150w ledlight before reading? because i read for months and months made my decision and im very pleased with my out come as of now. 150w blue led? what was the actual draw?

jb4TWENTY said:

so you bought your 150w ledlight before reading? because i read for months and months made my decision and im very pleased with my out come as of now. 150w blue led? what was the actual draw?

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I got a 150w HPS

Dubbz415 said:

I got a 150w HPS

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heard good and bad about them. but id do it bro! but ive heard the higher wayts were more efficent. but way dense budssss

jb4TWENTY said:

so you bought your 150w ledlight before reading? because i read for months and months made my decision and im very pleased with my out come as of now. 150w blue led? what was the actual draw?

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I looked for the best price/performance ratio (for me, I didn't need top end efficiency as the heat is useful for me) from a led chip. I decided on Epistars. I ordered 50 red, 50 blue, 50 warm white, and 50 cool white, 2 100w drivers, and 2 50-led heatsink/pcb boards. About $100 in parts.

I built one of each and tried combos, the cool white LED kicked the other three's ass in veg, not even close. Warm white was #2 about 20% behind. Then with just red or just blue they were less than 50% the size, with both they were about the same size as the warm white, but realize that is double the watts. That is the only brand I have experience with, however I read the specs on others, and they all seem to output way way less usable light than the their cool/warm white counterparts in the same LED series, using similar power.

and the led you made with both whites and red and blue....?

jb4TWENTY said:

and the led you made with both whites and red and blue....?

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I didn't mix them, they draw power a little differently. The boards are 10 series of 5 leds wired in parallel, 10 parallel rows of 5. From what I read: If you mix chips without resistors, some with lower resistance get hot faster and their resistance drops, making them pull more power and you have runaway heat until burnout.

For that reason I only did solid boards, I didn't want to add any wasteful resistors.

I think of my system as being pretty much the same as a florescent system, just far more compact, cheaper, and brighter than I could fit with florescent.