Know your Enemy: Light Leaks

FrdmGrwr said:

Hi Squidbilly, I don't think it is your light leaks causing problems on those Greenthumb Headbands. I am quite sure it is the genetics, as I am dealing with two myself. I can guarantee mine have experienced no stress and not a bit of light leak/interruption. I am quite seasoned and have never had this problem. What are the chances I have two at one time? It is genetics.

Have you contacted Greenthumb?

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Do you have hermies or just nanners? And my two headband plants are off the chain, so I'm more then satisfied. A seed or two is worth it. The clone only ecsd throws nanners left and right. Same with real trainwreck. Same with real chemdog. It's something that certaint elites are known for.

Also, I was running my ppm around 1000 which was way too high, I'm at 800 right now and they like that better

FrdmGrwr said:

Hi Squidbilly, I don't think it is your light leaks causing problems on those Greenthumb Headbands. I am quite sure it is the genetics, as I am dealing with two myself. I can guarantee mine have experienced no stress and not a bit of light leak/interruption. I am quite seasoned and have never had this problem. What are the chances I have two at one time? It is genetics.

Have you contacted Greenthumb?

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you are right.. anything with real ecsd in it is going to be hermie prone.. ecsd was created by a hermie x'ing some other plants in the room, so w/e you run a real deal ecsd, the chance is going to be there for a few nanners..
i was talking to drgt's on the phone awhile back about his sour 13, his ecsd x his g13, and he told me over the phone that his ecsd tends to throw a few nanners late in flower, but already knew this about real ecsd, so it was no surprise to me. he said he tried to breed it out, but it's still there for the most part..
the guy i got my ecsd cut from just told me he saw one nanner, 8 weeks into flower, and to keep an eye out on mine, which i will do, but i was honestly expecting it with this strain..
ecsd, trainwreck, og kush, and a few others i'm not thinking of off of the top of my head, are all reputed to come from a hermie parent, so pretty much anything crossed with them will have a higher risk of the late flower nanner..

Like I said, every strain in my tent threw at least one nanner(the exception being the one true genetic hermie I had, but s1 fem seeds, it's kinda expected or at least a known issue right off the batt). Light leaks fixed and no more nanners. I have a jack herer in there as well that isn't dr. gt that threw a nanner or two as well.

I got really lucky though, I don't know if the headband pollen is even viable-I thought I was going to see more seeds/pollination but considering how bad I thought it was, I have only found 2 seeds in ALL my plants, and I went over them with a fine tooth comb. The seed was in the jack and I think it selfed itself, which is actually kinda a bummer because I was looking forward to some fem 'Jackband' beans come harvest.

I had one hermie and one I am keeping a close eye on. My confirmed hermie absolutely exploded when switched to 12/12. Then around week 2 started showing both male and female pre flowers. The other one I am keeping an eye on just has a few strange pre flowers that worry me. Btw I run rdwc at 700-800ppm.

I wasn't knocking dr gt. Just letting you know that you weren't alone in the experience.

I don't understand the defending of light leaks. They should be avoided at all costs. Christ, light disruption is how breeders get their plants to self pollinate because disrupting their light cycle will do that. If you haven't had issues, that's great-it's luck not skill. Light leaks=bad. I have grown for YEARS and listened to too many people on this site and thought light leaks weren't that big a deal...they caused every plant in my tent to throw nanners, and they stopped when I fixed them.

All you have to do is google light leak/nanners/hermies and see that hundreds of people have had the same problems due to light leaks.

To say light leaks aren't a big deal is just dumb. Even if there was a slim chance of it happening, isn't it better to be safe rather then count on being lucky forever?

FrdmGrwr said:

I had one hermie and one I am keeping a close eye on. My confirmed hermie absolutely exploded when switched to 12/12. Then around week 2 started showing both male and female pre flowers. The other one I am keeping an eye on just has a few strange pre flowers that worry me. Btw I run rdwc at 700-800ppm.

I wasn't knocking dr gt. Just letting you know that you weren't alone in the experience.

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Yeah, I had one do the same thing-exploded when I switched to 12/12-thought it was going to be my biggest/best plant-then balls and pistils everywhere almost over night. I don't think my leak light had anything to do with my hermie-that is genetic. Everything else in my tent threw a couple nanners until I fixed my light leaks.

Squidbilly said:

I don't understand the defending of light leaks. They should be avoided at all costs. Christ, light disruption is how breeders get their plants to self pollinate because disrupting their light cycle will do that. If you haven't had issues, that's great-it's luck not skill. Light leaks=bad. I have grown for YEARS and listened to too many people on this site and thought light leaks weren't that big a deal...they caused every plant in my tent to throw nanners, and they stopped when I fixed them.

All you have to do is google light leak/nanners/hermies and see that hundreds of people have had the same problems due to light leaks.

To say light leaks aren't a big deal is just dumb. Even if there was a slim chance of it happening, isn't it better to be safe rather then count on being lucky forever?

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Btw I am not defending light leaks at all. Just letting you know that I had the same problems in a perfectly sealed room with the same seeds.

FrdmGrwr said:

Btw I am not defending light leaks at all. Just letting you know that I had the same problems in a perfectly sealed room with the same seeds.

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I wasn't even talking about you, I just recently read some of the other posts on this thread and it left me smh. They might not be a big deal, but they can cause issues-I just can't understand how people could even start to blame genetics if there is a light leak in the grow. So many people don't understand the difference between a hermie and a female that throws a naners too, so it get's confusing for a new grower who this might of actually helped.

FrdmGrwr said:

Btw I am not defending light leaks at all. Just letting you know that I had the same problems in a perfectly sealed room with the same seeds.

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Your the man, btw. I really appreciate you sharing your experience and not acting like a little kid-wish everyone acted that way on this site : )

Squidbilly said:

I wasn't even talking about you, I just recently read some of the other posts on this thread and it left me smh. They might not be a big deal, but they can cause issues-I just can't understand how people could even start to blame genetics if there is a light leak in the grow. So many people don't understand the difference between a hermie and a female that throws a naners too, so it get's confusing for a new grower who this might of actually helped.

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Got ya. Yeah, I always strive for absolute darkness during lights out.

But yea, straight hermie on one of my headbands. It grew like crazy when I switched to 12/12 but once I realized it had balls and I took a closer look I realized it was structured much differently and really lacking in trich production compared to everything else.

FrdmGrwr said:

I had one hermie and one I am keeping a close eye on. My confirmed hermie absolutely exploded when switched to 12/12. Then around week 2 started showing both male and female pre flowers. The other one I am keeping an eye on just has a few strange pre flowers that worry me. Btw I run rdwc at 700-800ppm.

I wasn't knocking dr gt. Just letting you know that you weren't alone in the experience.

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I'm glad I didn't chuck my other two when I found some nanners, because I was really close and pist that the hermie might of pollinated my crop. They are looking/smelling sooo good, can't believe I was about to toss them. They haven't came back, but I'm sure I'll see them again later in flower-that's just the strain.

Thanks and I will try to get get some pics up tomorrow for comparison.

Squidbilly said:

I'm glad I didn't chuck my other two when I found some nanners, because I was really close and pist that the hermie might of pollinated my crop. They are looking/smelling sooo good, can't believe I was about to toss them. They haven't came back, but I'm sure I'll see them again later in flower-that's just the strain.

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That gives me hope!

I agree on the light leaks, they should be avoided at all costs. Recently, I had a Jorge's Diamonds hermie (it had known issues I later found out!). I took the beaners I found in my Trainwreck and tried to grow some, shooting for some mexican derailment. They all sprouted quickly and took off like weeds through veg. I flowered one and kept 3 others back until I saw what was going to happen.

I am not very well versed in identifying male pre flowers, so as soon as I saw something that looked odd, I yanked it and destroyed the others rather than take the risk of pollinating my garden. It is possible that the phenotype I randomly selected just happened to be the 1 of 4 that would hermie, but I can't afford that kind of guestimate...in the near future there will be a dedicated breeding room separate from the main flower room.

From what I've read, it appears that if a hermie pollinates itself, then the seeds are likely junk, but if the hermie pollinates another strain, then the seeds will be a viable cross of the two strains and this is in fact how feminized seeds are made.

For the 4 plants in that batch I was using a 4x5 closet that was as close to dark as I could get it without hanging sheets over the exterior of the door. It was pitch black, but if the towel under the door was not situated just right, or if it was particularly bright outside the room, it was possible for some light to shoot through, or at least brighten the faint glow. Now I have a 10x14 room whose door was much easier to get completely light proof (weather stripping sure works great, but it takes up space and not all doors have the room!)

While the Jorge's did have a lower branch hermie, I am not convinced that it caused the handful of beaners I found in the train wreck, blueberry, and cheese. Avoid light leaks. Happy growing! Now if only I knew for a fact whether or not those green pig tail CFL lights are ok....I actually just entered the room using one last wednesday, so I guess I'll know in a week or two....

You want to avoid light leaks but you don't have to go all OCD about it.

My grow tent is in my bedroom, I avoid light leaks by having my light on during the times I'm in the bedroom the most, off while I'm sleeping or at work. Simple and keeps me from driving myself nuts trying to duct tape every little pin hole that I get the slightest leak from.

Newbies tend to over analyze things enough as it is without having them think the light on a humidifier or a pin prick of light will cause hermies.

While I wouldn't go out of my way to introduce light leaks or purposefully enter the room and turn the lights on. I question how important and how big a factor it is in producing hermies. I think genetics have more to do with hermies than anything else. My new flower room is light leak proof, even the door has a flexible rubber door sweep and instead of typical wood trim, I used 1.5" styrofoam insulation around the door frame so when the door closes theres no leaks. Just like I wouldn't feed my plants bleach, I wouldn't purposefully introduce light into the dark period. That said, I've had outdoor plants that had motion detection lights close by and were tripped by animals on a regular basis, I've had them where they were close enough to light sources that it never got completely dark, never mind the full moon scenario. None of those produced any more hermies than what I would consider "normal". Certain strains that were more prone to hermies are probably more the culprit, but an interesting question/debate. I'd like to see some controlled, documented data on this, have yet to find any true studies, if anyone has please post some links.

Squidbilly said:

I don't understand the defending of light leaks. They should be avoided at all costs. Christ, light disruption is how breeders get their plants to self pollinate because disrupting their light cycle will do that. If you haven't had issues, that's great-it's luck not skill. Light leaks=bad. I have grown for YEARS and listened to too many people on this site and thought light leaks weren't that big a deal...they caused every plant in my tent to throw nanners, and they stopped when I fixed them.

All you have to do is google light leak/nanners/hermies and see that hundreds of people have had the same problems due to light leaks.

To say light leaks aren't a big deal is just dumb. Even if there was a slim chance of it happening, isn't it better to be safe rather then count on being lucky forever?

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Name one breeder that disrupts light cycles to get a plant to herm and self pollinate. That's not how they do it bro.
The vast majority of those google results are just a bunch of people like yourself that got herms and look around the grow room for something to blame. It's genetics. I've had bomb plants that hermed and I didn't want to get rid of because of how good they were. Some of those stopped growing male parts completely after keeping and cloning from a month to a few months.. Some stop herming the second run. I've seen this more than once. Years? I'm going on two decades and hundreds of plants. Literally hundred of plants over that time. If I stopped every time I had a herm or two or three, and pulled my hair out thinking it was my environment, I'd be dead from all the stress. But I'm not afraid of herms and I don't immediately rip them down if I get one, unless they're full blown herm from top to bottom. I keep them and watch them. Once you learn the differences in herm symptoms (early, late, big clusters, small clusters, balls, nanners, pollen, no pollen), you learn which ones are trash and which ones still have hope, or aren't a threat. I still say you would have to seriously fuck with the light schedule back and forth over a course of weeks to get a plant to stress out enough to herm.

Squidbilly said:

Do you have hermies or just nanners? And my two headband plants are off the chain, so I'm more then satisfied. A seed or two is worth it. The clone only ecsd throws nanners left and right. Same with real trainwreck. Same with real chemdog. It's something that certaint elites are known for.

Also, I was running my ppm around 1000 which was way too high, I'm at 800 right now and they like that better

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I'm growing Cali Connection's Chem91 and I'm having a hell of a time with nanners. It's so bad that I'm thinking of scraping all Chem91's and cloning my Sour Diesel and Strawberry Cough instead.

"From what I've read, it appears that if a hermie pollinates itself, then the seeds are likely junk, but if the hermie pollinates another strain, then the seeds will be a viable cross of the two strains and this is in fact how feminized seeds are made."
Do you have any articles that state this? I'm thinking you misunderstood something you read.