July 4th 2019

doublejj said:
I respectfully disagree my polar friend, the social and environmental cost of not using it are too high. Battery tech is growing at an amazing pace, soon they will contain only a fraction of the elements they contain today. And Teslas are made to be 100% recycled and the elements they contain will be captured and reused.
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Please show me the numbers.

You're an OK guy in my book. You grow epic weed. But on this, we disagree. The way the raw materials for a Tesla are obtained is a showcase of the worst imperialist tendencies of America. Like Big Rubber and banana republics. We need to move to a different technology. Fossil fuels don't have a future. Tesla tech is too politically and industrially dirty. I am confident that the future will hold a cleaner and less socially destructive technology. That is when I'll leave gassers and not look back.
 
tangerinegreen555 said:
They fill the gas tanks often. And they all take one home at night so that's another 50 miles round trip. Those guys put on the miles.
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And Penn has the highest gas taxes in the nation!!....just think of how much tax they would be saving by not buying all that gas...
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doublejj said:
And Penn has the highest gas taxes in the nation!!....just think of how much tax they would be saving by not buying all that gas...
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We were 'the land of the taxes' before Cali, Boss.

My mom called us that back in the '60's. Lol.

They run those Teslas at that cab company. The point was to cut down on gas and they get a tax break.

Still some kinks to work out. My neighbor drives more than 300 miles a day and sometimes has to wait an hour on his fare while they're doing something somewhere.
 
cannabineer said:
Please show me the numbers.

You're an OK guy in my book. You grow epic weed. But on this, we disagree. The way the raw materials for a Tesla are obtained is a showcase of the worst imperialist tendencies of America. Like Big Rubber and banana republics. We need to move to a different technology. Fossil fuels don't have a future. Tesla tech is too politically and industrially dirty. I am confident that the future will hold a cleaner and less socially destructive technology. That is when I'll leave gassers and not look back.
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so fossil fuels are cleaner and less socially destructive to you, compared to batteries? How about your phone battery?
 
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tangerinegreen555 said:
We were 'the land of the taxes' before Cali, Boss.

My mom called us that back in the '60's. Lol.

They run those Teslas at that cab company. The point was to cut down on gas and they get a tax break.

Still some kinks to work out. My neighbor drives more than 300 miles a day and sometimes has to wait an hour on his fare while they're doing something somewhere.
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doublejj said:
so fossil fuels are cleaner and less socially destructive to you, compared to batteries?o_O How about your phone battery?
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Yes. At this time, a fossil-fueled car has a lower social and environmental cost than a Tesla. Consider manufacturing: the average ICE car generates 5.6 tons of carbon dioxide in its manufacture. For a battery-electric car that figure is 8.8 tons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envir...ric_car#Environmental_impact_of_manufacturing

As for phone batteries, one word: scale. Charging a phone battery takes 8 Wh. Charging a Tesla takes 10 to 12 thousand times as much. Battery energy densities are comparable. So I'm supporting much much less child labor and native exploitation.
 
cannabineer said:
Please show me the numbers.

You're an OK guy in my book. You grow epic weed. But on this, we disagree. The way the raw materials for a Tesla are obtained is a showcase of the worst imperialist tendencies of America. Like Big Rubber and banana republics. We need to move to a different technology. Fossil fuels don't have a future. Tesla tech is too politically and industrially dirty. I am confident that the future will hold a cleaner and less socially destructive technology. That is when I'll leave gassers and not look back.
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In its latest environmental impact statement, Tesla announced that it will open its own battery recycling facility.

Tesla has been recycling batteries made at the factory using third-party recyclers. Now, as the earliest Model Ses reach 7 years old, and the company is starting to receive some batteries back after use in those early cars, it's setting up its own battery recycling facility.

The new processing center at the company's Gigafactory in Sparks, Nevada, will process both old batteries used in customers' Teslas as well as those from its own research and development.

The company says lithium, cobalt, aluminum, copper, and steel will be recovered from the batteries in a closed-loop system that optimizes the materials for new battery production.

It also says it expects to save money producing new batteries from the recycled materials, rather than buying new minerals for its batteries.

The new facility should also save significant expenses and pollution from shipping batteries overseas to be recycled, where many of the third-party recyclers are located.

"The closed-loop battery recycling process at Gigafactory 1 presents a compelling solution to move energy supply away from the fossil-fuel based practice of take, make, and burn to a more circular model of recycling end-of-life batteries for reuse over and over again," the company said in its environmental report.
 
Electric is the future, everybody knows that.

We're transitioning, it's not going to be over night.

I'd love to not have to buy gas. Who wouldn't?

Need competitive prices, more range, cheaper battery replacement because if you take care of the car you might need a new battery in 10 years.
 
doublejj said:
In its latest environmental impact statement, Tesla announced that it will open its own battery recycling facility.

Tesla has been recycling batteries made at the factory using third-party recyclers. Now, as the earliest Model Ses reach 7 years old, and the company is starting to receive some batteries back after use in those early cars, it's setting up its own battery recycling facility.

The new processing center at the company's Gigafactory in Sparks, Nevada, will process both old batteries used in customers' Teslas as well as those from its own research and development.

The company says lithium, cobalt, aluminum, copper, and steel will be recovered from the batteries in a closed-loop system that optimizes the materials for new battery production.

It also says it expects to save money producing new batteries from the recycled materials, rather than buying new minerals for its batteries.

The new facility should also save significant expenses and pollution from shipping batteries overseas to be recycled, where many of the third-party recyclers are located.

"The closed-loop battery recycling process at Gigafactory 1 presents a compelling solution to move energy supply away from the fossil-fuel based practice of take, make, and burn to a more circular model of recycling end-of-life batteries for reuse over and over again," the company said in its environmental report.
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And yet e-car battery manufacture is the motive force behind increasingly predatory lithium-, nickel- and cobalt-mining stratagems. Kind of puts the recycling pep talk into perspective. Recycling will be more of a factor when e-cars have achieved steady state between manufacture and salvage. We're nowhere near that point.
 
tangerinegreen555 said:
Electric is the future, everybody knows that.

We're transitioning, it's not going to be over night.

I'd love to not have to buy gas. Who wouldn't?

Need competitive prices, more range, cheaper battery replacement because if you take care of the car you might need a new battery in 10 years.
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I believe in electric transportation as well. But I think it would be so much better if the roads were electrified (safely done by using induction) and the cars had a token "limp-to-a-road-that-works" onboard power storage.

Instead of lugging 1200 pounds of Chinese/Chilean envirocalypse around every****ingwhere. Jmo.
 
tangerinegreen555 said:
Electric is the future, everybody knows that.

We're transitioning, it's not going to be over night.

I'd love to not have to buy gas. Who wouldn't?

Need competitive prices, more range, cheaper battery replacement because if you take care of the car you might need a new battery in 10 years.
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Elon says the next generation of batteries will last 1,000,000 miles....they are engineering them for Semi trucks
Source: Power Electronics news

Tesla’s acquisition of Maxwell Technologies could be a game-changer in the EV and energy storage industry. The reported all-stock, US$218-million deal is expected to be finalized in Q2, 2019. Maxwell Technologies is a pioneer in the design and manufacture of the high-power-density ultra-capacitors. It has a lot of opportunities in the transportation, industrial and consumer markets. Core megatrends driving Maxwell’s values include integration of renewable energy into the grid, electrification of ICE and accelerating EV growth, which fits like a glove into Tesla’s energy strategy, according to Frost & Sullivan.
The result of applying Maxwell’s dry-cell technology would be a simplified manufacturing process that can lead to 10-20% cost reduction with better battery life (up to 2x).
 
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For 90K I could do a functional restore on 2 ,maybe 3, older, much cooler, vehicles and have less carbon footprint, theoretically zero to negative at that point, than the Tesla or the Fit. You can't exactly claim to be environmentally friendly when your producing tons of potential future toxic waste for the sake of immediate environmental gratification..... But that's the American way. Feel good now, let someone else worry about the future consequences.

Then there's the ramp up in existing fossil fuel electricity to power all these things. If we're going to move forward with all electric vehicles, our whole infrastructure needs to be re-engineered from the ground up. But that's never going to happen the way things are run now.
 
WeedFreak78 said:
For 90K I could do a functional restore on 2 ,maybe 3, older, much cooler, vehicles and have less carbon footprint, theoretically zero to negative at that point, than the Tesla or the Fit. You can't exactly claim to be environmentally friendly when your producing tons of potential future toxic waste for the sake of immediate environmental gratification..... But that's the American way. Feel good now, let someone else worry about the future consequences.

Then there's the ramp up in existing fossil fuel electricity to power all these things. If we're going to move forward with all electric vehicles, our whole infrastructure needs to be re-engineered from the ground up. But that's never going to happen the way things are run now.
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The struggle for power continues. >:(

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Hope everyone's 4th was a good one.

We held our annual neighbor hood get together/pot luck. The elderly lady across the street is from Guatemala & speaks zero English and her Spanish is linguistically different enough (to me) that mostly we both just talked louder. :wink:

At any rate she made banana leaf wrapped enchiladas that were the bomb, Mrs. GWN whipped up a fabulous baked Crab Artichoke that disappeared very quickly. The couple next door to her are from South Africa and we had an enjoyable and spirited Boerboel conversation over a plate of Braai Lamb.

The folks that live two houses down from us summit-ed Everest 10 years ago (at the age of 55) and I learned quite a bit about high altitude mountaineering.
All in all it was a very laid back happy get together & we all got to know each other a bit better.
 
GreatwhiteNorth said:
Hope everyone's 4th was a good one.

We held our annual neighbor hood get together/pot luck. The elderly lady across the street is from Guatemala & speaks zero English and her Spanish is linguistically different enough (to me) that mostly we both just talked louder. :wink:

At any rate she made banana leaf wrapped enchiladas that were the bomb, Mrs. GWN whipped up a fabulous baked Crab Artichoke that disappeared very quickly. The couple next door to her are from South Africa and we had an enjoyable and spirited Boerboel conversation over a plate of Braai Lamb.

The folks that live two houses down from us summit-ed Everest 10 years ago (at the age of 55) and I learned quite a bit about high altitude mountaineering.
All in all it was a very laid back happy get together & we all got to know each other a bit better.
Click to expand...
Any unwanted party crashing from Brownies?
 
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