rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
@wakenbake91 thoughts?
Jack's 12-4-16 RO
- Thread starter calvin.m16
- Start date
wakenbake91
Well-Known Member
^^ whats the issue?
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
huh? that's not bashing?
jacks is by no mean a "cheap" nutrient. they've been around longer than pretty much everybody (1947).
wakenbake91
Well-Known Member
Maybe its low cost where he's at? Cheap and bad are 2 different things. If the jacks is cheaper than what he was using previously, then yes, it would be "the cheap stuff". I've never heard someone shit on a product by saying its cheap
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
really? i just bought some cheap sneakers at walmart that fell apart in 1 day. now you've heard it used that way. lmao.
wakenbake91
Well-Known Member
LMAO have a good day brotha 
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
cheap = inexpensive or less expensive, not necessarily quality
A Corvette Z06 is much cheaper than a Porsche 911 GT3 but few would consider it to be a shoddy product.
A Corvette Z06 is much cheaper than a Porsche 911 GT3 but few would consider it to be a shoddy product.
calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
Everyone has their opinion of what is cheap and what is inexpensive.
McDonalds has been around since 1955. It's cheap but not for everyone. lol
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
2 sides to every story
adjective:
--inexpensive because of inferior quality.
"cheap, shoddy goods"
calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
This is true. I also never said jacks sucks or anything lol people assume I'm bashing it. It just crashes to low 4 pH in coco unless you constantly feed it.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
hey, you never did answer my question: where were you measuring the pH drop? in the coco or in the runoff?
calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
I measured the pH from both runoff and in the rootzone itself, it was well in the 4s and plants looked kinda like a DWC plant that had off pH. Runoff isn't very useful though imo I prefer measuring the actual rootzone itself either with a slurry or pH probe.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
gotcha.
i haven't used jacks in coco. still using h3ad's formula and (knocks on wood) they are still healthy. just curious if i ever do try it in coco.
calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
I'd love to see it in coco with just their RO. When I contacted support they said you do not need anything but the 1 part powder, mix until desired EC or measure grams either way will work. I tried both ways, set pH to 6.0 and by the next day the pH would be super acidic and plants looked rough. Contacted support again and they said well now add epsom salts, so I did, same shit.
If you're in Soil you will probably have better luck with it because there are usually already integrated buffering agents for pH in the medium. Coco the pH just shits the bed unless you have consistent & frequent fertigation events per/day.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i believe you. i think i mentioned i had the same thing with Tap pH and the formula is almost identical to RO which doesn't have the same drop for me in a standalone res.
Milky Weed
Well-Known Member
To use jacks its a very fine tunable max efficiency, one must take everything into account and how it reacts with the root zone and media.
I purpose-fully add gypsum, (calcium sulfate) and epson (magnesium sulfate) to help boost or “optimize” the nutrients capabilities with as low e.c as possible. i add fluvic/humic
and kelp to help boost the low e.c to make it more efffective.
to avoid the acidity of my nutrients, i use buffered well water, Ph’ing correctly is crucial, if your experiencing acidity, add an alkaline substanc, or just ph it high like 6.5 (hydro) and have a lime buffered peat media.
I will admit I had a steep learning curve with a high quality product like jacks, it’s more for DIY optimization. I believe making your own blends for different stages of growth optimal, which is an option you have with jack. especially jacks 3-2-1 tek around here. I made due with jacks 20-10-20 and 7-15-37 jacks finisher by changing ratioes plus adding gypsum and magnesium.
sorry for being a dick earlier, and I know your post pertains to coco media but I hope it helps in some way they are related. I hate when people say jacks is not optimal because of its low price point.
I purpose-fully add gypsum, (calcium sulfate) and epson (magnesium sulfate) to help boost or “optimize” the nutrients capabilities with as low e.c as possible. i add fluvic/humic
and kelp to help boost the low e.c to make it more efffective.
to avoid the acidity of my nutrients, i use buffered well water, Ph’ing correctly is crucial, if your experiencing acidity, add an alkaline substanc, or just ph it high like 6.5 (hydro) and have a lime buffered peat media.
I will admit I had a steep learning curve with a high quality product like jacks, it’s more for DIY optimization. I believe making your own blends for different stages of growth optimal, which is an option you have with jack. especially jacks 3-2-1 tek around here. I made due with jacks 20-10-20 and 7-15-37 jacks finisher by changing ratioes plus adding gypsum and magnesium.
sorry for being a dick earlier, and I know your post pertains to coco media but I hope it helps in some way they are related. I hate when people say jacks is not optimal because of its low price point.
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calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
I have taken a different approach with Jack's RO. I opted to NOT use Epsom Salts and instead experimented with much lower EC readings. I have had success in VEG now on a few different plants giving them exclusively 1.0 EC solution with NO OTHER ADDITIVES and the pH always hits 5.9-6.0 without adjustment in my RO water.
Plants still seem pretty dark green and have a tad of clawing going on, they're now in 2 gallon pots and about 2 feet tall. Normally with my other nutrients I'm at 1.6-1.8 EC to keep leaves happy.
I think like you said this product requires more tinkering than most but I can see it being very rewarding to my wallet and the environment by not being delivered premixed in heavy water jugs, throwing out the plastic jugs, etc..
I'm going to try and do a start to finish run with the RO 12-4-16 formula and if I increase EC I am going to do it very slowly and see how they respond. I will give 2 of the 4 plants MPK with the RO formula still trying to stay under 1.2 EC. I'll report back with results so I'm not just seeming like I was bashing the product it just isn't as easy as they say I suppose.
some 1.6 EC (~3g/gal) solution killed my clones that were in 1 gal pots, extreme burn. I just scoop in until I hit my 1.0 EC and everything seems fine..... Following their feed chart seems like it cooks plants?
Plants still seem pretty dark green and have a tad of clawing going on, they're now in 2 gallon pots and about 2 feet tall. Normally with my other nutrients I'm at 1.6-1.8 EC to keep leaves happy.
I think like you said this product requires more tinkering than most but I can see it being very rewarding to my wallet and the environment by not being delivered premixed in heavy water jugs, throwing out the plastic jugs, etc..
I'm going to try and do a start to finish run with the RO 12-4-16 formula and if I increase EC I am going to do it very slowly and see how they respond. I will give 2 of the 4 plants MPK with the RO formula still trying to stay under 1.2 EC. I'll report back with results so I'm not just seeming like I was bashing the product it just isn't as easy as they say I suppose.
some 1.6 EC (~3g/gal) solution killed my clones that were in 1 gal pots, extreme burn. I just scoop in until I hit my 1.0 EC and everything seems fine..... Following their feed chart seems like it cooks plants?
calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
jr peters video with a feed chart. Seems more realistic..
Here is their feed chart,MUCH HOTTER THAN WHAT THEY SHOW IN THEIR VIDEO.
Here is their feed chart,MUCH HOTTER THAN WHAT THEY SHOW IN THEIR VIDEO.
Attachments
calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
Many months later still running the Jack's 12-4-16.
Notes:
Measured amount of Potassium Silicate is added as PH UP
I mix my jack's concentrate solution at 1 dry liter scoop to 4 liters of water (gallon) and stir until fully dissolved.
To feed I just pour the concentrate into the reservoir after adding Potassium Silicate (pH UP) to reach 1.0 EC (500 PPM TDS), any higher seems to be too rich in Nitrogen even in late bloom and buds will get stunted and leaves will be curling in with Dark Green color.
To get more Potassium & Phosphorus in bloom as well as a little Magnesium & Sulfur boost I use 100 PPM TDS of Koolbloom Dry from day 1 of 12/12 then starting around day 30 I add 200 PPM TDS (Max Strength) Koolbloom Dry for a booster. This has worked great. You may need more Potassium Silicate during the stages you add koolbloom dry.
You also want a lot of runoff or you will get an acidic rootzone even with their RO formula. I know Maxibloom seems to do the same thing, I would just make sure you are watering daily and set your pH around 6.0-6.2 because it's going to go down not up once you feed plants in most grow medias, soil being an exception or any media that has some type of PH buffering agent in it.
Notes:
Measured amount of Potassium Silicate is added as PH UP
I mix my jack's concentrate solution at 1 dry liter scoop to 4 liters of water (gallon) and stir until fully dissolved.
To feed I just pour the concentrate into the reservoir after adding Potassium Silicate (pH UP) to reach 1.0 EC (500 PPM TDS), any higher seems to be too rich in Nitrogen even in late bloom and buds will get stunted and leaves will be curling in with Dark Green color.
To get more Potassium & Phosphorus in bloom as well as a little Magnesium & Sulfur boost I use 100 PPM TDS of Koolbloom Dry from day 1 of 12/12 then starting around day 30 I add 200 PPM TDS (Max Strength) Koolbloom Dry for a booster. This has worked great. You may need more Potassium Silicate during the stages you add koolbloom dry.
You need to add some type of pH UP I use plain ole concentrated Potassium Silicate from CYCO brand. 1 ounce treats 30 gal of RO and sets me around 6.0 pH @ 1.0 EC (500 PPM TDS or x500 scale).
You also want a lot of runoff or you will get an acidic rootzone even with their RO formula. I know Maxibloom seems to do the same thing, I would just make sure you are watering daily and set your pH around 6.0-6.2 because it's going to go down not up once you feed plants in most grow medias, soil being an exception or any media that has some type of PH buffering agent in it.