It's A Fuct World

using hydroton, 30 gal res running lucas formula at 8-16 at 900ppm and my tap water is naturally 150 ppm. only thing i added was h202 was flooding 3 times during the 12 hour light cycle but just jumped it up to 4 times. hard to tell if there getting nute burn do to the yellowing tip from cloning. just dont see any new growth in almost 2 weeks, its insane

@ fandango

What ppm are u running your res at for newly rooted clones. how can AL get away with running at 1000 ppm? its like the plants havent moved any in 2 weeks. really getting descouraged

My next batch of clones just all shitted on me for the first time and i got to get this thing going or ill be homeless in 2 months. tight time schedule. almost wishing i had stayed with soil.

Water temp? Warmer temps lead to root issues.

i dont even know the exact temp of my res. but with h202 regualrly and planty of air stones i was under the impression it wasnt that critical.

To tell you the truth...I have been on a super tight budget lately due to lack of construction work.
Here's what I am running.
GH test kit(a few drops into a half full shot glass)First my water from the well is in the green range,so I mix 4 gallon batches.I add 5ml PH down.This brings the water into the yellow zone(5-6)
on my clones after they root(over in the clone room)I have 7" pots waitng for them in a tray(botanicare)that holds 49 pots.I fill the bottom of the pots with rock wool to stop the perlite from escaping.the 1-1/2"rw cubes ar showing roots and go into the pot.they are fed 1/4 strength part A and part B.
res is filled with 35 gallons.12/12 light cycle
flood once aday until the tray is 2-3" deep

Thanks Al, I've built rolling trays for the new op that will allow just that. Those are just 3'x4, wooden tables, and the reservoirs pull out quite easily. The panda film is just to keep the light out. With these new rolling trays, I'm thinking I'll rotate each tray every 3 days, instead of moving individual pots. Hopefully, this will keep growth even and avoid any hotspots.

hxvoc said:

thanks for the math lesson guys. on my first flood table now, have had the clones in there 2 weeks and havent seen any growth yet. not even roots coming out the bottom of my 6 inch pots. im so frustrated with this, ready to go back to soil where i was seing growth everyday

Click to expand...

Sounds like overwatering. What medium, watering system type & watering schedule are you using?

fandango said:

Al...your the man....got my trays up an running now...after spending many days reading this thread.
Hard part now is waiting 60 days....dang clones are 12" tall now after only 2 weeks!
running 3 trays on 2600w

Click to expand...

Thanks. All sounds as it should be. Good luck.

hxvoc said:

using hydroton, 30 gal res running lucas formula at 8-16 at 900ppm and my tap water is naturally 150 ppm. only thing i added was h202 was flooding 3 times during the 12 hour light cycle but just jumped it up to 4 times. hard to tell if there getting nute burn do to the yellowing tip from cloning. just dont see any new growth in almost 2 weeks, its insane

Click to expand...

What medium did you use for cloning? RW cubes? If so, are the bottoms of the cubes above the flood level? What persuaded you to use 'Lucas formula' instead of standard mfr's instructions for nute mixtures?

hxvoc said:

My next batch of clones just all shitted on me for the first time and i got to get this thing going or ill be homeless in 2 months. tight time schedule. almost wishing i had stayed with soil.

Click to expand...

The usual cause for failure of clones is overwatering.

Bigz2277 said:

Water temp? Warmer temps lead to root issues.

Click to expand...

It can, but I think there's something else going on here.

hxvoc said:

i dont even know the exact temp of my res. but with h202 regualrly and planty of air stones i was under the impression it wasnt that critical.

Click to expand...

Water temp isn't generally critical unless it's way wrong.

I appreciate others trying to answer queries, but when they're directed at me, please leave them to me to answer. Yes, I'm not always able to get to queries every day, but I do the best I can.

fandango said:

To tell you the truth...I have been on a super tight budget lately due to lack of construction work.
Here's what I am running.
GH test kit(a few drops into a half full shot glass)First my water from the well is in the green range,so I mix 4 gallon batches.I add 5ml PH down.This brings the water into the yellow zone(5-6)
on my clones after they root(over in the clone room)I have 7" pots waitng for them in a tray(botanicare)that holds 49 pots.I fill the bottom of the pots with rock wool to stop the perlite from escaping.the 1-1/2"rw cubes ar showing roots and go into the pot.they are fed 1/4 strength part A and part B.
res is filled with 35 gallons.12/12 light cycle
flood once aday until the tray is 2-3" deep

Click to expand...

"A few drops" is not a precise enough method for nute concentrate measurement. You need a decent graduated cylinder or measuring cup for nutes as well as a 10ml syringe for measuring pH Down, which is normally used in ml quantities (I only need 2ml in 125L when mixing up a fresh tank of nutes.

Also, colour matching pH test kits are simply not accurate enough; it's just not good enough to know pH is between 5-6. You need 0.1 resolution. Get a good electronic pH meter.

I prefer Eutech's waterproof pH Tester 10, though there are other good, reliable meters. Avoid Hanna meters. Don't buy cheap meters- you get precisely what you pay for- and cheap is false economy. Make sure you have at least pH 4 & 7 reference calibration solutions on hand and calibrate your meter before EACH use. Keep the probe tip damp by putting a bit of dampened sponge in the meter cap. Sterilise the bit of sponge with a strong (1ml 50% H2O2 in 9ml water) H2O2 solution once a week. Use the glass probe cleaner provided with the pH meter once a week. If you see fungal growth on the pH probe tip, clean with aforementioned H2O2 solution & an old toothbrush.

Rick Ratlin said:

Thanks Al, I've built rolling trays for the new op that will allow just that. Those are just 3'x4, wooden tables, and the reservoirs pull out quite easily. The panda film is just to keep the light out. With these new rolling trays, I'm thinking I'll rotate each tray every 3 days, instead of moving individual pots. Hopefully, this will keep growth even and avoid any hotspots.

Click to expand...

Sounds OK. Good luck.

Pix du jour.


Tray 1. Note vigorous growth indicated by light green colour of growing tips & new leaves.


Tray 2. This batch is screaming! Will be a heavy yielder.


Tray 3 in the background. Not as happy with this batch- had some rosetting (failure of stems to elongate). Will yield some, but not as well as it should.


Tray 4. Also some rosetting in this batch. Not sure of the cause of that with this one or the tray 3 batch; it'll yield some but not near as well as it should.


Overhead shot; this is as wide a shot as I can get without a fisheye lens. Room is really no larger than absolutely necessary for the trays & some space for me to work in it.

im watering about 30 mins after the lights come on and one time about 6 hours in about an hour before the lights go out. IM gonna get you some pics to look at Al. This is my first run in F&D. I decided to go this route do to Envy of your op. The Lucas formula just seems like it would be easier.

I have Advanced Nutrient 3 part along with some of there additives but puting the additives on the shelf is fine if the 3 part will get it done. I should still be considered a n00b But i do have a few soil grows under my belt and I have spent countless dollars on reputable equipment regardless if it was necessary or not.

My clones did get over watered and it didnt take long before the clone reaper was in my tent. lol

I still have a couple moms, but only about 6 clones on the 3x3 table now hoping to get something out of this in 60 days. I will get some pictures up for you tonite, maybe that will give you a better idea of what i have going on.

By the way, Your setup is sick!

1 more note Al, My ppm meter reads at a .5 conversion i realized last nite.

hxvoc said:

im watering about 30 mins after the lights come on and one time about 6 hours in about an hour before the lights go out. IM gonna get you some pics to look at Al. This is my first run in F&D. I decided to go this route do to Envy of your op.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Sounds OK.

The Lucas formula just seems like it would be easier.

I have Advanced Nutrient 3 part along with some of there additives but puting the additives on the shelf is fine if the 3 part will get it done. I should still be considered a n00b But i do have a few soil grows under my belt and I have spent countless dollars on reputable equipment regardless if it was necessary or not.

Click to expand...

Equal amounts of a 2-part nutrient is a much easier way to go.

My clones did get over watered and it didnt take long before the clone reaper was in my tent. lol

Click to expand...

Ouch.

I still have a couple moms, but only about 6 clones on the 3x3 table now hoping to get something out of this in 60 days.

Click to expand...

Yep. I'm sure your next batch of clones will do better. Admittedly, getting the watering right when cloning in RW cubes is difficult & is an acquired skill. Review my thread on cloning in rockwool if you need a refresher.

I will get some pictures up for you tonite, maybe that will give you a better idea of what i have going on.

Click to expand...

OK

By the way, Your setup is sick!

Click to expand...

ZOMFSM should I call a doctor?

heh. Thanks.

hxvoc said:

1 more note Al, My ppm meter reads at a .5 conversion i realized last nite.

Click to expand...

Hmm? Don't understand what you mean.

i was told some meters read at .7 and some at .5 , if your running 1000 ppm on a .7 conversion it will read a little different then my meter at .5 conversion. I was actually using rapid rooters and have had 100% success rate up until this time. I was rushing the clones trying to hurry them on the table.

yes i understand the 2 equal parts would be easier and im definetly research something alot simpler, maybe even flora nova line.

Im checking my ph daily and its staying very close to 5.8, do you let your ph drift a little or do you adjust daily? ive read alot of post and some seem to have success with letting the ph drift slightly up and down.

My damn camera was dead last night, so pics tonite after my op comes online around 7 eastern time. im attempting to copy 1/2 of your op as to get a harvest every month.

also i have left the lid off my res as ive read you leave yours off due to humidity causing problems in the res. Dosing 29% h202 every 4 days at 7ml per gal in my 30 gal res. I think i might be seeing some new growth on some of the clones but i wouldnt even think of comparing these 2 weeker's tothose monsters in your 3-4 week tray.

my grow space is dialed in nicely so im just down to this F&D thing getting worked out. im only running one tray right now till i can get a nute/flood schedule written in stone. I feel better knowing that im getting help from the man i learned almost everything i know from.

Thanks Al for taking time to help the little people, lol

I was going to suggest trying rapid rooters if you're having issues with rockwool. They are definitely more suitable for me personally and my success rate is higher with them than any other method I've used in the past... I'm sure your success will return if you just get back to business. Good luck with the rest, hopefully Al can get you straightened out.

Hi Al, I am curious about the rosetting you were talking about. I have a Kalashnikova outdoors that seems to have this problem if I am understanding correctly. I am posting a pic. Do you have any idea what causes this? This particular plant came out of the seed with 3 cotyledons instead of 2. Could that have caused this, and what will happen with this plant...less yield?

Thanks Shwag!

Im getting back to business! My aero-cloner is fired up and I have a few clones in there now. im hoping to get a better developed root system before i put them in the hydroton and getting this show on the road!

Im sure Al can whip me into shape on my new flood table adventure as i think my main problem is getting my nutes dialed in. Thanks for all the help guys!

hxvoc said:

using hydroton, 30 gal res running lucas formula at 8-16 at 900ppm and my tap water is naturally 150 ppm. only thing i added was h202 was flooding 3 times during the 12 hour light cycle but just jumped it up to 4 times. hard to tell if there getting nute burn do to the yellowing tip from cloning. just dont see any new growth in almost 2 weeks, its insane

Click to expand...

Al, since you don't run gh nutes, I thought I could make some suggestions here. If you're into feeding low, try startin with these ratios, and tailor to your garden's needs. Also, ALWAYS add micro first. nute lockout will occur
VEG- 10-5-3 Grow/Micro/Bloom incidentally, this ratio is great for tomato plants all season long. Should read around 1.2 EC for RO water
BLOOM- first 2 weeks- 2-5-5 plus 5 ml/gal liquid kool bloom
week 3-4 0-4-6 plus 6ml Liquid Kool Bloom
week 5-6 0-4-7 plus 6ml LKB
week 7-8 0-4-5 plus 1g/gal powder kool bloom

If you don't have the liquid or powder kool bloom, just go with this.
week 1 grow/micro/bloom 5-5-5
week 2-3 2-6-10
week 4-5 0-8-16
week 6-to finish 0-6-12

Again, I'm not trying to step on your toes Al. This is only a suggestion, as I ran gh 3 part with hydroton sterilized as well. This is a starting point, as every grow op has its own variables to account for. GH nutes can be a lil salty, so top flush with plain water every week. FWIW, I always experienced slow starting growth when the clones went into the hydroton without a nice full root set, or if I watered too high. Best of luck!

I think maybe ive been watering to high. im also doing a little pheno hunting with these 5 querkles i got, well i pulled the obvious male last nite and the root mass was only halfway down in the hydroton. They were in there for 2 weeks I would think the roots would be at least to the bottom.

Also, When my lights first come on, I can list up the pot and the bottom hydroton is still wet from the last watering before lights out. From what i have read, you need roots to search out the water and as long as the hydroton is staying wet there not going to stretch out.

My nutes seem to be fine as my ph is staying right around 5.8 without adjusting, my ppm rises after a few days without top-up but that is normal from what i understand. I do have to ph adjust after topping off due to me using tap water, but it never strays after i set it at 5.8

Thanks guys and any help is appreciated. will be uploading pics as soon as i get this mess in the lab cleaned up

Hay there.

As I've said before, every 2 weeks, I'm busier than a 1-legged asskicker, and it's that time again. I won't be checking in for at least 5, perhaps 6 days while I get this work done.

While I'm away, JUST SAY NO to myths, rumours and non-scientific thinking.

*kisses*

-Al.B

I guess I shouldn't tell the tale of how I grew a pound of buds under a 90 watt UFO with magic sauce....