Issues With Prop 19 Solved! Now we can all Support it.

Dan Kone · Oct 17, 2010

Wheres my Chippy? said:
Then we can finally all agree to an actual good bill that will pass without a hitch!

That is incredibly naive. Who's going to pay for this "good bill"? The ONLY reason prop 19 is on the ballot is because it has financial backing for commercial interests. The ONLY reason it is going to pass is it's because it has economic benefits to the state. The majority of Californians don't care about the details of this law as long as it creates legal jobs and brings in tax money. You guys want to take that out of the bill + let 18 year olds buy bud (so they can sell it at their highschools). No legalization bill like that will ever pass. If you want to wait for that you're looking at another 70 years. Good Luck.

You choices are a bill which makes it legal for everyone 21 and up or continuing prohibition. It's insane to vote to continue to end prohibition.

What we have here are growers/dealers afraid of losing profits Vs everyone else. Even then, if they were smart growers/dealers they'd support prop 19 and open up legal businesses. So basically it's growers/dealers who are too lazy to figure out how to open a business Vs everyone else.

Dan Kone · Oct 17, 2010

beardo said:
If 19 passes maybe they'll be hiring more cops to inspect grows and more building code inspectors and fire code inspectors and tax collectors. We will need to build new prisons to house 18-21 year old marijuana offenders who become felons if 19 passes and marijuana is recriminalized

Dude. Do understand how insane that sounds? That is completely out of the realm of possibility.

Show me where prop 19 makes possession a felony for 18-21 year olds. That's a lie and you know it.

If you're really that afraid of losing profits, then just come out and say it. Shoot me a PM and I'll point you in the right direction on how to open a legal business and then you'll be all good. You don't need to make stuff up.

Hayduke · Oct 17, 2010

Almost 15 years after the passage of 215...the only club within 25 miles was just shut down by a county court order after being sued by the city for being a nuisance. You can bet that San Diego county will do everything they can to oppose this, while enforcing cannabis prohibition.

I have been quite conflicted over this issue for the last couple of weeks, since Arnie signed the decrim bill and now this Assembly bill to amend 19. I am still not convinced one way or the other which trumps which?
The thought of voting no on something that may lead to real change, is very troubling.

I do not understand why earlier versions of the proposition spelled out the punishment for smoking in the presence of minors as a felony, and now everything just says it is not permitted... :confused:

beardo · Oct 17, 2010

Dan Kone said:
That is incredibly naive. Who's going to pay for this "good bill"? The ONLY reason prop 19 is on the ballot is because it has financial backing for commercial interests. The ONLY reason it is going to pass is it's because it has economic benefits to the state. The majority of Californians don't care about the details of this law as long as it creates legal jobs and brings in tax money. You guys want to take that out of the bill + let 18 year olds buy bud (so they can sell it at their highschools). No legalization bill like that will ever pass. If you want to wait for that you're looking at another 70 years. Good Luck.

You choices are a bill which makes it legal for everyone 21 and up or continuing prohibition. It's insane to vote to continue to end prohibition.

What we have here are growers/dealers afraid of losing profits Vs everyone else. Even then, if they were smart growers/dealers they'd support prop 19 and open up legal businesses. So basically it's growers/dealers who are too lazy to figure out how to open a business Vs everyone else.

prop 19 expands prohibition. 215 got on the ballot and passed without major commercial funding dennis perone and jack herer got the signatures - Both of them have spoken out against 19

beardo · Oct 17, 2010

Dan Kone said:
Dude. Do understand how insane that sounds? That is completely out of the realm of possibility.

Show me where prop 19 makes possession a felony for 18-21 year olds. That's a lie and you know it.

If you're really that afraid of losing profits, then just come out and say it. Shoot me a PM and I'll point you in the right direction on how to open a legal business and then you'll be all good. You don't need to make stuff up.

mr2shim said:
don't give any to your friends is what I would say to that. Under the section where it says what you said, it mentions nothing about a minor being busted alone. It has to do with distribution.

Section 4: Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors

Section 11361 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to read:
Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana, who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the for a period of three, five, or seven years.

(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.

(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.

(d) In addition to the penalties above an person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell any marijuana to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.

the tax money raised from 19 will be used to enforce the new marijuana laws. under 19 posession becomes a felony as soon as a 18 year old passes a joint to his 18 year old friend

Dan Kone · Oct 17, 2010

beardo said:
the tax money raised from 19 will be used to enforce the new marijuana laws. under 19 posession becomes a felony as soon as a 18 year old passes a joint to his 18 year old friend

No it doesn't. Nothing you quoted says that. No where does prop 19 say that. If I'm wrong, show me the specific line in prop 19 that proves me wrong.

beardo · Oct 17, 2010

Section 4: Prohibition on Furnishing marijuana to Minors

Section 11361 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to read: -Heres your line------- (b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.............- 18-20 year olds are considered minors under prop 19 so this would be 14-20 year olds administered or given by someone 18 years old.

Dan Kone · Oct 17, 2010

beardo said:
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.

Just don't share your bud with 14 year olds and you'll be ok. You're still talking about giving bud to minors. Is it so unreasonable not to give bud to minors?

Dan Kone · Oct 17, 2010

beardo said:
prop 19 expands prohibition. 215 got on the ballot and passed without major commercial funding dennis perone and jack herer got the signatures - Both of them have spoken out against 19

Well Jack isn't around anymore and his family has asked that people stop using his name to oppose prop 19. So how about we respect that ok?

beardo · Oct 17, 2010

Dan Kone said:
Just don't share your bud with 14 year olds and you'll be ok. You're still talking about giving bud to minors. Is it so unreasonable not to give bud to minors?

Oh I thought i was making stuff up....?? dont smoke a joint with a 20 year old war veteran either right.

beardo · Oct 17, 2010

Dan Kone said:
Just don't share your bud with 14 year olds and you'll be ok. You're still talking about giving bud to minors. Is it so unreasonable not to give bud to minors?

i'm not saying i'm going to hang with kids i'm saying kids are kids and I was a teenager who smoked pot and I don't think we should have police breaking up high school house partys and sending the seniors to prison for 5 years

Dan Kone · Oct 17, 2010

beardo said:
Oh I thought i was making stuff up....?? dont smoke a joint with a 20 year old war veteran either right.

Prop 19 does not change the state of California's definition of a minor. It says people under 21 can not posses cannabis. It does not say "people under 21 are now considered minors".

You are intentionally ignoring the part of prop 19 that addresses 18-20 year olds. It says it is illegal to knowingly give or sell cannabis to someone under 21 but over 18. That means the cops have to prove that you knew the person's age in advance. Basically, you'd have to get busted selling to a 19 year old undercover cop who announced he was under 21 while wearing a wire.

The idea that we will have to build new prisons to house people who get busted for that very specific and unlikely situation is utterly stupid. But I think you know that. I think you're only problem with prop 19 is that you think you may lose $$$.

beardo · Oct 17, 2010

I'm sorry if you never completly read or comprehended prop 19 I posted that one section so you could read it and think about what it means but their are a lot of problems with the prop

Dan Kone · Oct 17, 2010

beardo said:
I'm sorry if you never completly read or comprehended prop 19 I posted that one section so you could read it and think about what it means but their are a lot of problems with the prop

Dude. You're inventing problems with prop 19. It doesn't say that if a 20 yr old passes a joint to another 20 yr old he's going to prison for 5 years. You are intentionally misinterpreting it for your own purposes.

How about we just doing give joints to kids and we'll all be ok?

beardo · Oct 17, 2010

Dan Kone said:
Prop 19 does not change the state of California's definition of a minor. It says people under 21 can not posses cannabis. It does not say "people under 21 are now considered minors".

The idea that we will have to build new prisons to house people who get busted for that very specific and unlikely situation is utterly stupid. But I think you know that. I think you're only problem with prop 19 is that you think you may lose $$$.

People under 21 are Minors with Alcohol and under prop19 would be with marijuana. I think your pro 19 because of $$$ your invested in seeing it pass for your own finacial gain....you couldn't possibly ignore the potential negitive impact of 19 on california

beardo · Oct 17, 2010

Dan Kone said:
Dude. You're inventing problems with prop 19. It doesn't say that if a 20 yr old passes a joint to another 20 yr old he's going to prison for 5 years. You are intentionally misinterpreting it for your own purposes.

How about we just doing give joints to kids and we'll all be ok?

beardo said:
Section 4: Prohibition on Furnishing marijuana to Minors

(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years

Let's try this again...Think about it

Dan Kone · Oct 17, 2010

beardo said:
I'm sorry if you never completly read or comprehended prop 19 I posted that one section so you could read it and think about what it means but their are a lot of problems with the prop

You do realize that you are complaining about something that is already a standing law right? lol. The passage you keep quoting is part of an existing California Health code that has been on the books since 2009.

This is nothing new. You're blowing things out of proportion in order to scare people.

http://law.onecle.com/california/health/11361.html

Does that link look familiar? It should. It's the "new regulation" you keep complaining about. (yeah, the one that's been law for over a year without any complaints)

So enough with the scare tactics ok?

Dan Kone · Oct 18, 2010

beardo said:
Let's try this again...Think about it

Those are existing laws. The only new parts of the law are parts c & d. You know, the part that says you can only get busted for giving/selling bud to someone under 21 if you know they are under 21 ahead of time?

Don't take my word for it. Look it up for yourself. It's California Health and Safety Code Section 11361. And it's already law in CA.

beardo · Oct 18, 2010

Dan Kone said:
You do realize that you are complaining about something that is already a standing law right? lol.

beardo said:
People under 21 are Minors with Alcohol and under prop19 would be with marijuana.

I didn't realize you had already passed prop19....

gupp · Oct 18, 2010

Hayduke said:
I have been quite conflicted over this issue for the last couple of weeks, since Arnie signed the decrim bill and now this Assembly bill to amend 19. I am still not convinced one way or the other which trumps which?

Prop 19 will override decriminalization. It will amend the law, in that exact area.

SB 1449 (decriminalization)
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_1401-1450/sb_1449_bill_20101001_status.html
An act to amend Section 11357 of the Health and Safety
Code, and to amend Section 23222 of the Vehicle Code,
relating to controlled substances.
Prop 19
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/abx6_9_bill_20100921_introduced.html
An act to add Section 23394.1 to, and to add Chapter 19
(commencing with Section 26000) to Division 9 of, the Business and
Professions Code, to amend Section 68152 of the Government Code, to
amend Sections ...11357, ...of the Health and Safety
Code,... to amend Sections 23222 and
40000.15 of the Vehicle Code, and to amend Section 18901.3 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, relating to marijuana.

Issues With Prop 19 Solved! Now we can all Support it.

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