Is this nute burn? Or something else

lordaddict

lordaddict

Member
Plants are two months old and started from seed.

Trainwreck
Moby Dick
Berry Bomb
Blue Thai
Violator Kush

Gave them all 1/3 gallon of 6.5 ph water with 3ml cal mag per gallon.

Had some yellowing throughout plant and thought it may have been the issue. They normally get half that cal-mag every other watering so they did get a back to back watering of cal mag this time.

I water them every 3-4 days with botanicare nutes, superthrive, cal mag, hygrozyme and give them 1/4 - 1/2 gallon of water each watering.

Roots organic soil.
70-80 temps
40-60 humidity
Under 600w hps about 2 1/2 - 3 ft above plant

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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Looks like it got a severe heat rash along the way some where! Could it have been in a large heat spike or maybe the light was close at one time?
Be sure your watering enough...."smart" pots dry out real fast....
 
*BUDS

*BUDS

Well-Known Member
i agree the light was too close to that part of the plant causing burn and heat stress. Get some cooltubes so you can get the 600w to 6" from the tops and a lot more final weight.
 
lordaddict

lordaddict

Member
I have a air cooled 1000 w set at 600 at the moment. Cooled by a 440 cfm fan. Moby dick suffered a little heat stress about a week or so again but my lights are way to high to be causing a heat stress issue I think..

Have an oscillating fan between the canopy and the fan on high and another fan pulling in fresh air from air vent flap.

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lordaddict

lordaddict

Member
Dr. Who said:
Looks like it got a severe heat rash along the way some where! Could it have been in a large heat spike or maybe the light was close at one time?
Be sure your watering enough...."smart" pots dry out real fast....
Click to expand...
First I was overwatering during earlier stages. I generally judge them needing water by weight of the pot and sticking my finger a few inches in the top of the soil to see if it's dry or moist still.

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Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
I doubt it is a light burn. I would go to 1/4 strength nute strength for a week or two to see if that stops it from getting worse. Also I would use a ppm/ec meter to get an accurate measurement of what you are feeding them. There really is no reason to use Calmag, superthrive or hygrozyme every watering. Use every 3rd watering and that will be fine. I am curious as to what your soils PH is. That could be the culprit. Did you test the PH of the soil, or runoff? Reduce your nutes, say feed every other watering, and test your soil PH. It probably is out of wack, and hydrated lime might be needed. Good luck.
 
lordaddict

lordaddict

Member
I have a 300$ BlueLab pH/ppm/temp meter. I have been neglecting to test runoff, but will test it today as they are in need of water.

I went ahead and picked up some hydrated lime just in case.
 
lordaddict

lordaddict

Member
Jimdamick said:
I doubt it is a light burn. I would go to 1/4 strength nute strength for a week or two to see if that stops it from getting worse. Also I would use a ppm/ec meter to get an accurate measurement of what you are feeding them. There really is no reason to use Calmag, superthrive or hygrozyme every watering. Use every 3rd watering and that will be fine. I am curious as to what your soils PH is. That could be the culprit. Did you test the PH of the soil, or runoff? Reduce your nutes, say feed every other watering, and test your soil PH. It probably is out of wack, and hydrated lime might be needed. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Just tested the runoff of my Trainwreck (my biggest plant) and after drenching it with 1 1/2 gallons (it's a real bitch to get some runoff out of a 7 gallon felt pot) the runoff was 5.1.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Jim should know better!
When you test your run off,,,,you only get the pH of the run off. NOT the pH of the soil.
You should know that when you water the pH swings one way and as the soil dries out, it swings back the other.
Soil pH's it's self (when healthy) The use of synthetic nutrients does degrade the living soils ability to self pH, by slowly killing off the living things in it. The use of a "zyme or Myco" to keep the soil alive and those living things doing the work they are supposed to is a good idea! These help the soil stay pH stable. Another way that HELPS is to amend the soil with Dolomite lime. Around 2 TBL spoons spread around the surface would help.
But the thing is,,,,it's not a pH problem nor a nutrient based problem. The underlying problem was heat at one time!

I see by what you say about how hard it is to get runoff from a 7G smart pot is this.
I'll bet the whole thing is a watering problem.
Smart pots are very prone to the "umbrella" effect. This is when the roots form what you could call an "umbrella" that deflects the water/feed around the lower center root ball and only gets the perimeter wet.
To counter act this problem I suggest you water till you get AMPLE flow through and let the plant sit in the catch tray with the flow through for about 3-5 min so the effected "dry" area under the "umbrella" soaks up the needed moisture it has been lacking.....I tries "smart" pots and found them no so smart for just that reason and they dry out to fast.
I went right back to PLANT WARRIOR pots and will never go back.....Felt is for somebodies renfair costume. I don't care for them, to much extra work/throw's off my schedule of how things are done.

The thing that has happened to your plant is that at one point the plant could not transpire fast enough/had enough available moisture (these last 2 work together) to keep it's self cool enough to prevent the heat damage we see in your pics.
 
Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Jim should know better!
When you test your run off,,,,you only get the pH of the run off. NOT the pH of the soil.
You should know that when you water the pH swings one way and as the soil dries out, it swings back the other.
Soil pH's it's self (when healthy) The use of synthetic nutrients does degrade the living soils ability to self pH, by slowly killing off the living things in it. The use of a "zyme or Myco" to keep the soil alive and those living things doing the work they are supposed to is a good idea! These help the soil stay pH stable. Another way that HELPS is to amend the soil with Dolomite lime. Around 2 TBL spoons spread around the surface would help.
But the thing is,,,,it's not a pH problem nor a nutrient based problem. The underlying problem was heat at one time!

I see by what you say about how hard it is to get runoff from a 7G smart pot is this.
I'll bet the whole thing is a watering problem.
Smart pots are very prone to the "umbrella" effect. This is when the roots form what you could call an "umbrella" that deflects the water/feed around the lower center root ball and only gets the perimeter wet.
To counter act this problem I suggest you water till you get AMPLE flow through and let the plant sit in the catch tray with the flow through for about 3-5 min so the effected "dry" area under the "umbrella" soaks up the needed moisture it has been lacking.....I tries "smart" pots and found them no so smart for just that reason and they dry out to fast.
I went right back to PLANT WARRIOR pots and will never go back..
Click to expand...
Dr. Who said:
Jim should know better!
When you test your run off,,,,you only get the pH of the run off. NOT the pH of the soil.
You should know that when you water the pH swings one way and as the soil dries out, it swings back the other.
Soil pH's it's self (when healthy) The use of synthetic nutrients does degrade the living soils ability to self pH, by slowly killing off the living things in it. The use of a "zyme or Myco" to keep the soil alive and those living things doing the work they are supposed to is a good idea! These help the soil stay pH stable. Another way that HELPS is to amend the soil with Dolomite lime. Around 2 TBL spoons spread around the surface would help.
But the thing is,,,,it's not a pH problem nor a nutrient based problem. The underlying problem was heat at one time!

I see by what you say about how hard it is to get runoff from a 7G smart pot is this.
I'll bet the whole thing is a watering problem.
Smart pots are very prone to the "umbrella" effect. This is when the roots form what you could call an "umbrella" that deflects the water/feed around the lower center root ball and only gets the perimeter wet.
To counter act this problem I suggest you water till you get AMPLE flow through and let the plant sit in the catch tray with the flow through for about 3-5 min so the effected "dry" area under the "umbrella" soaks up the needed moisture it has been lacking.....I tries "smart" pots and found them no so smart for just that reason and they dry out to fast.
I went right back to PLANT WARRIOR pots and will never go back.....Felt is for somebodies renfair costume. I don't care for them, to much extra work/throw's off my schedule of how things are done.

The thing that has happened to your plant is that at one point the plant could not transpire fast enough/had enough available moisture (these last 2 work together) to keep it's self cool enough to prevent the heat damage we see in your pics.
Click to expand...
Hey Dr. Who, what I said was test the soil or test the runoff. You can test runoff to determine if your soil is fucked, simply by testing the PH of your water before you use it. Here's an example. You use water with a PH of 7. You run the water thru the soil. The soil will filter the water which will be approximately what the PH soil is. If he get's a runoff of 5.1, you can bet your ass his soil is at least that, probably lower. He needs to add HYDRATED lime for a quick response, not dolomite, which needs to be mixed in the soil, is slow acting, and is very difficult, if not impossible to add after planting. I would have thought you would know that. Peace
 
zander19

zander19

Well-Known Member
TheLeafChief said:
I am going to agree with the others and say nute burn here. You definitely are gonna wanna flush that soil with plain water.
Click to expand...
the Chief is right just water for the next 14 days by the looks your soil dry's every 2-3days so let it stay dry for a day then water it again ect.
 
lordaddict

lordaddict

Member
Quick update -

Gave the trainwreck a full dose of 1 1/2 gallons (had to do so much to test runoff) nutes (except half str of the pureblend grow) - then I gave all of them about 1/2 gallon each of 1tbs of hydrated lime per gallon.

It's been 24 hours since that and they seem like they are perking up much better. So I do believe my soil pH had a big factor in my problems.

I didn't give the others nutes as I wanted to only try nutes on one. But it isn't showing any signs of nute burn, so I may be giving them all a full dose of nutes next watering (a day or so most likely).

I also went and bought 6 big 16 inch round 2" deep plant trays as I am going to try bottom feeding. I am thinking about possibly giving them 1/4 gallon of water via top water and filling the plant trays I have and letting the plants sit in them.

My question is how long should I let them sit in the flood trays full of water before I empty them out?
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Jimdamick said:
Hey Dr. Who, what I said was test the soil or test the runoff. You can test runoff to determine if your soil is fucked, simply by testing the PH of your water before you use it. Here's an example. You use water with a PH of 7. You run the water thru the soil. The soil will filter the water which will be approximately what the PH soil is. If he get's a runoff of 5.1, you can bet your ass his soil is at least that, probably lower. He needs to add HYDRATED lime for a quick response, not dolomite, which needs to be mixed in the soil, is slow acting, and is very difficult, if not impossible to add after planting. I would have thought you would know that. Peace
Click to expand...
I still like the dolo for it's stable responce.
I have never seen a proper soil jump so far out of line in pH as your example. A plant in a soil that far out would be just about, if not dead. You see, so many times I hear pH in soil,pH in soil......If your using a Myco supplement and avoiding Urea. (makes for a salt build up that tends to turn your soil into a brick by killing all the living things that work for your soil and your plant). You should never have pH problems......When you test the run off of the soil, the soil has swung in pH one way naturally,,, and by a factor that MAY appear to be alarming.....As that soil drys out it swings back the other way. The "Target" pH of soil is fluid in a sense as you can monitor, but the question is when do you test to get the true pH? This is something that has been debated for a long time.

One must be careful with hydrated as you can dump to much Ca into the soil and begin to lock out some other nutrients like Mg and P. This starts a whole new cascade of def's.

How about every one read more about how the soil really works. Try this book it's priceless!
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microbes-Organic-Gardeners-Revised/dp/1604691131
This book will help you UNDERSTAND the soil and how it really works in relation to your plants.

Lord is seeing a change in 24 hrs? That's the watering. Any "fix" in soil will take 5-7 days to show,,,,,Your "fix" will show in the new growth only.

Let them sit in the tray for around 3 min for those size pots.
 
bird mcbride

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
Maximum root zone saturation time is 15 minutes. After this the roots start to drown. I would "think", start at 4 but no more than 8 minutes daily with regular surface waterings.
In a mini-pot(2'x2'x6") with hydrorock I do six, four minute F&D waterings every 24 hours spaced four hours apart with nutes at 1/6th strength.
 
bird mcbride

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
The more I look at the pics it appears as though the plant had suffered from light burn at some point.
What's the CFL for?
 
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