Is this normal for week 4 flowering? *pics*

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acidhertz

Active Member
This white widow was exhibiting signs of nute burn at week 2, so I did a full flush at week 2 and have been giving 1/4 strength jacks classic bloom booster, as well as molasses. I am not sure if the browning/clawing going on is normal for week 4 flowering or if there is a deficiency... possibly heat stress? Any ideas?


I am using 2 - 150W HPS lamps next to eachother... this plant usually sits about 1 foot under the lamps. (I have fans attached to the lamps themselves blowing directly on the bulb to help with the heat as well) temps usually stay around 80 degrees with lights on... humidity around 40%... PH on this plant seems fine, and is at 6.8
 

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thelastpirate

thelastpirate

Well-Known Member
Devilreject1 said:
is it rootbound? how big is the pot your using
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Giving the devil his due here. Are they root bound?
They kinda look underfed, and maybe underlit to me, but there are others far more knowledgeable than I who should chime in.
If you think that they're nute burnt, why are you still feeding? What was it that Charley said about finding your self in a hole and digging?
Your pH is probably fine at 6.5. I've heard anywhere from 5 to 7 can be tolerated. Personally, I shoot for either 5.8 or 6.0. Some say pH isn't critical in organics. maybe not, but it sure helps me sleep better knowing that the pH is ok. It clears up an otherwise confusing litany of symptoms exhibited by the plant. A lot of the "symptoms" you see have more than one cause. Especially nutrient deficiencies. Either your plant is truly deficient in a nutrient, or there is plenty of that nutrient present, but due to the pH being outta whack, the plant can't use it, so it may as well not be there. Kinda like dying of thirst in the middle of a lake. She LOOKS like she needs nitrogen, you THINK that's it, the girl needs nitrogen, so you give her more. But in reality, there is a whole shitload of nitrogen available to her, but she can't use it because the pH is off. In the meanwhile, however, you just compounded the problem rather than fix it by overfeeding . Thats one of the biggest problems new growers face. A seasoned grower can make an educated guess, a new grower can only guess. (or cross your fingers and hit the forums) Is it truly a deficiency, or is it pH?
BTW, those "non-organic" nutes can build up in the soil in the form of salts that will need to be flushed out periodically by running plain water thru the soil to dissolve them.
 
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acidhertz

Active Member
thelastpirate said:
Giving the devil his due here. Are they root bound?
They kinda look underfed, and maybe underlit to me, but there are others far more knowledgeable than I who should chime in.
If you think that they're nute burnt, why are you still feeding? What was it that Charley said about finding your self in a hole and digging?
Your pH is probably fine at 6.5. I've heard anywhere from 5 to 7 can be tolerated. Personally, I shoot for either 5.8 or 6.0. Some say pH isn't critical in organics. maybe not, but it sure helps me sleep better knowing that the pH is ok. It clears up an otherwise confusing litany of symptoms exhibited by the plant. A lot of the "symptoms" you see have more than one cause. Especially nutrient deficiencies. Either your plant is truly deficient in a nutrient, or there is plenty of that nutrient present, but due to the pH being outta whack, the plant can't use it, so it may as well not be there. Kinda like dying of thirst in the middle of a lake. She LOOKS like she needs nitrogen, you THINK that's it, the girl needs nitrogen, so you give her more. But in reality, there is a whole shitload of nitrogen available to her, but she can't use it because the pH is off. In the meanwhile, however, you just compounded the problem rather than fix it by overfeeding . Thats one of the biggest problems new growers face. A seasoned grower can make an educated guess, a new grower can only guess. (or cross your fingers and hit the forums) Is it truly a deficiency, or is it pH?
BTW, those "non-organic" nutes can build up in the soil in the form of salts that will need to be flushed out periodically by running plain water thru the soil to dissolve them.
Click to expand...

The plant is in a 2 gallon pot, which I think should be fine?

Here is a basic log: (you can see my mistakes in here as well :roll:... )


**vegging 4/24/09
5/13/09 - watered w/ 1/2 strength veg nutes
5/22/09 - watered, no nutes.

******5/29/09 - moved to flowering
5/31/09 - watered, 1/2 strength nutes
6/7/09 - flushed w/ 6-7 gallons water
6/15/09 - watered 1/4 strength nutes
6/22/09 - watered w/molasses
6/26/09 - watered 1/4 strength nutes
 
Reeny

Reeny

Well-Known Member
Are you giving it any Nitrogen during flower. I understand that many folks do not see the need for nitrogen during flowering but if your plants shows the need give it to it.
 
xxacehighxx

xxacehighxx

Well-Known Member
white widow flowers 9 weeks, right?

it looks like deficiency to me maybe, which is natural in flowering, but appears to be coming in way too early
 
C

chopper260

Active Member
acidhertz said:
The plant is in a 2 gallon pot, which I think should be fine?

Here is a basic log: (you can see my mistakes in here as well :roll:... )


**vegging 4/24/09
5/13/09 - watered w/ 1/2 strength veg nutes
5/22/09 - watered, no nutes.

******5/29/09 - moved to flowering
5/31/09 - watered, 1/2 strength nutes
6/7/09 - flushed w/ 6-7 gallons water
6/15/09 - watered 1/4 strength nutes
6/22/09 - watered w/molasses
6/26/09 - watered 1/4 strength nutes
Click to expand...
those aren't the only days youre watering them right?
 
S

sundoobie

Member
not enough water dehydrated. you have to water alot more than that especially during summer ;) 2 gallon is kind of small maybe transplant to bigger container at least 3 gallon flush with water thats what i would do. I water every 2nd 3rd day.
 
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acidhertz

Active Member
Reeny said:
Are you giving it any Nitrogen during flower. I understand that many folks do not see the need for nitrogen during flowering but if your plants shows the need give it to it.
Click to expand...
I am using Jacks classic blossom booster, which has 10% nitrogen in it.


xxacehighxx said:
white widow flowers 9 weeks, right?

it looks like deficiency to me maybe, which is natural in flowering, but appears to be coming in way too early
Click to expand...
8-9 weeks yes... what deficiency would cause clawing and browning like this?


sundoobie said:
not enough water dehydrated. you have to water alot more than that especially during summer ;) 2 gallon is kind of small maybe transplant to bigger container at least 3 gallon flush with water thats what i would do. I water every 2nd 3rd day.
Click to expand...
chopper260 said:
those aren't the only days youre watering them right?
Click to expand...
Yes, those are the only days, I have always been under the impression to never water until the top 2 inches of soil is dry, I also have a moisture meter for the soil (a cheapo) that I use as a gauge... I also lift the plant up and judge its weight as a way of knowing if there is still water in the soil. How often should I be watering??... I seriously doubt they are rootbound, I am growing another plant in the same situation (different strain) with a 1 gallon pot and it seems to be doing fine... and is actually taller then the white widow.
 
cali-high

cali-high

Well-Known Member
yea 2 gallon is really small especially from seed to flower....


try to give a plant a gallon of space per each month of growth...


so a 3 month plant needs a 3 gallon pot.....
 
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acidhertz

Active Member
cali-high said:
yea 2 gallon is really small especially from seed to flower....


try to give a plant a gallon of space per each month of growth...


so a 3 month plant needs a 3 gallon pot.....
Click to expand...

I have plenty of pot sizes here, so I will transplant to a 3 gallon... do you think I should flush as well or just transplant?
 
meofcurse

meofcurse

Well-Known Member
i was doing the same with my finger in the soil once but didnt work.i underwatered them.so now i learned to understand when they want water by their appearance.and a good way to understand is by the weight of the pot.
 
robert 14617

robert 14617

Well-Known Member
after the first few weeks into flower the root growth comes to a stand still ,the plant will have to recover from the stress of re potting before it returns to flower production
 
Boneman

Boneman

Well-Known Member
A 2 gal container is fine....you will gain nothing by moving it now. Two gal is a great size for indoor growing.
From the sounds of it you seem to have all the variables wired so look at it from a different angle. Maybe its your nutes? What kind of ph meter are you using and is it calibrated? 6.5for soil and 5.8 for hydro.
 
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syze

Member
i guarentee that if i have two plants next to eachother and 1 is in a 2 gallon pot and the other is in a 3 gallon pot, you will notice atleast a 15% increase in weight, but like Boneman said, you would only make it worse repotting now during flowering!2 inches is quite a bit to be dry, 1 inch or more like 2-3 cm sounds bout right! And as someone stated he can see when the plants need water, I wouldnt wait till they show me theyre stressing to water them, another reason of lost weight. now judging by the pictures, it looks to me like a typical case of not enough light to the bottom leaves, thats just the process of them dying and since you do have a n problem the plant is totally nurturing itself from itself, it would seem to me you have a nutrient lock out! It is very important to look at PH no matter what your growing, if organic or whatever. after6,8 your going to start locking things out, optimal for soil would be 6 to 6.4PH. And most important, dont judge one plant to another when growing different strains. plants are not identical unless cloning. Ok hope im helping a little, peace and happy growing
 
S

syze

Member
acidhertz said:
I am using Jacks classic blossom booster, which has 10% nitrogen in it.



classic blossom booster, can you please tell me all the components and then what other nutes if any do you also wwater with??
8-9 weeks yes... what deficiency would cause clawing and browning like this?

clawing looks different to me, but that looks to me as not enough light or underwatering, could be both together




Yes, those are the only days, I have always been under the impression to never water until the top 2 inches of soil is dry, I also have a moisture meter for the soil (a cheapo) that I use as a gauge... I also lift the plant up and judge its weight as a way of knowing if there is still water in the soil. How often should I be watering??... I seriously doubt they are rootbound, I am growing another plant in the same situation (different strain) with a 1 gallon pot and it seems to be doing fine... and is actually taller then the white widow.
Click to expand...
change your 2 inches of dryness to 2cm and i believe you will then notice that with a 2 gallon pot youll be watering about every 2 sometimes 3 days depending on how hot it is! I dont believe she is root bound either, and dont forgot about vitamines and amino acids and and and, not just NPK ADVANCED NUTRIENTS has a killer product called revive. Go to AN,s site and check it out! Is also affordable believe 15 or 20 dollars, not sure because i use euros
 
A

acidhertz

Active Member
meofcurse said:
i was doing the same with my finger in the soil once but didnt work.i underwatered them.so now i learned to understand when they want water by their appearance.and a good way to understand is by the weight of the pot.
Click to expand...
Ya, I usually pickup the plant to feel its weight, but I haven't really been watering until it feels like the soil is completely dry... which appears now that may be a mistake to let it get bone dry.

robert 14617 said:
after the first few weeks into flower the root growth comes to a stand still ,the plant will have to recover from the stress of re potting before it returns to flower production
Click to expand...
Yes, I didn't really believe it was rootbound, but I have never grown this strain before, so I did end up transplanting to a 5 gallon pot... hopefully she will recover ok.

Boneman said:
A 2 gal container is fine....you will gain nothing by moving it now. Two gal is a great size for indoor growing.
From the sounds of it you seem to have all the variables wired so look at it from a different angle. Maybe its your nutes? What kind of ph meter are you using and is it calibrated? 6.5for soil and 5.8 for hydro.
Click to expand...
Wish I would have seen this before I transplanted :wall: The PH meter I am using I got from our local gardening store... it was like $20, it is a probe that goes into the soil... when the probe is not in the soil, it sits at 7... after inserting into the soil, it drops a little below 7, my 'guess' is around 6.8 (it is not digital)... it is called a 'rapitest pH meter' (man that sounds ghetto)... is there a recommendation for a good ph meter online somewhere?

syze said:
change your 2 inches of dryness to 2cm and i believe you will then notice that with a 2 gallon pot youll be watering about every 2 sometimes 3 days depending on how hot it is! I dont believe she is root bound either, and dont forgot about vitamines and amino acids and and and, not just NPK ADVANCED NUTRIENTS has a killer product called revive. Go to AN,s site and check it out! Is also affordable believe 15 or 20 dollars, not sure because i use euros
Click to expand...
The jacks classic blossom booster is 10-30-20 (nitrogen, phosphate, soluble potash)... it also contains micronutrients... and like I said earlier, I also use molasses for potassium, usually every other watering.


As for an UPDATE... the condition seems to be worsening... even the cola leaves are starting to wilt and brown on the edges :sad:
Thanks for the great responses!
 
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