Is this a good medium mixture??

Hi Everyone,

I have grown plenty times before, but only DWC....I have never grown in soil before...

Anyways, my next grow I want to do it more of a soil grow.

Is this a good mixture as a medium for my plants? http://growguru.co.za/shop/coco-peat-5kg/

Then, I will be watering them with nutrients in the water...what PPM's do I give them and how often do I water them with plain water and how often with water + nutes? (Feed them).

I will be growing under a 600W MH for veg and HPS for flower.

In DWC, I would keep my water at around 1200PPM- 1400PPM , I dont know about this peat mixture though...


Thanks for your help

That isn't a mixture or potting soil or anything that is pure coco coir soil-less media. I guess the question is how much of a soil do you want to grow in?
The thing is really most "soil" sold in bags isn't actually soil at all, it is a mixture of materials (sphagnum, coir, perlite, compost, etc) that is treated like a soil. Real soil is alive with microbes and other small organisms. These come from inoculation or compost, earthworm castings or humus.

Do you want to mix your own potting soil? You can make a really good potting mix that you can both plant into directly and amend for transplants. The best amended soils are allowed to age for 3 or more weeks. They have enough nutrients to sustain plant growth for long periods with minimal inputs. If you want to go this route I could give you a soil mix recipe.

Either way though, soil isn't like hydro and you don't need to worry so much about pH or ppm's. What did you plan to use for nutrients?

The chips are probably going to have a lot of sodium in them. Coco fiber has sodium from seawater where it grows. Apparently a brand called Canna Coco is treated to purify it. That just looks like a generic brand though. The chips aren't really going to help much anyway, since they're pretty solid. Best not to cheap out on low grades of coco coir. Something you could do though to get rid of sodium is to put a bunch of magnesium sulfate (epsum salt) solution through it. The sodium will exchange with the magnesium, which is actually useful for plants, and be flushed out as sodium sulfate. At least I'm guessing it would. Maybe the salt itself could simply be flushed out with water. I used magnesium sulfate once when I made the mistake of thinking kitty litter was a good source of clay for my soil and later found out it was actually sodium bentonite, rather than calcium bentonite, which is good clay. The plants turned all yellow and stopped growing, almost killed them. I fixed it by putting epsum salt solution throught it changing it into magnesium bentonite. Never use kitty litter in a soil mix.

Most coir these days comes pre-rinsed.

Nullis said:

That isn't a mixture or potting soil or anything that is pure coco coir soil-less media. I guess the question is how much of a soil do you want to grow in?
The thing is really most "soil" sold in bags isn't actually soil at all, it is a mixture of materials (sphagnum, coir, perlite, compost, etc) that is treated like a soil. Real soil is alive with microbes and other small organisms. These come from inoculation or compost, earthworm castings or humus.

Do you want to mix your own potting soil? You can make a really good potting mix that you can both plant into directly and amend for transplants. The best amended soils are allowed to age for 3 or more weeks. They have enough nutrients to sustain plant growth for long periods with minimal inputs. If you want to go this route I could give you a soil mix recipe.

Either way though, soil isn't like hydro and you don't need to worry so much about pH or ppm's. What did you plan to use for nutrients?

Click to expand...

I'm interested in seeing your soil mix if you wouldn't mind.

Porky101 said:

Anyways, my next grow I want to do it more of a soil grow.
Is this a good mixture as a medium for my plants? http://growguru.co.za/shop/coco-peat-5kg/

Click to expand...

Nah, I wouldn't mix that in soil. I hate to sound lazy but I'll just get a bag of premixed soil like promix bx, cut it with a little pearlite, and mix in the goodies similar to subcools super soil mix with some microbes thrown in there. .. My mix is a little different from subs (super sekrit blend)

The most important thing is to let it cook, sprinkle a little rain water in there and turn the soil every few days, last time I did a pile of dirt, I had a kiddy pool turned over it to keep it moist. when that soil gets properly colonized, Youll see a nice web of white fungus on the top, its all good thats the mycorarrize.

unwine99 said:

I'm interested in seeing your soil mix if you wouldn't mind.

Click to expand...

Base mix:

• 50% Sunshine Adv. Mix #4 - e.g. 4 gallons
• ~25% Coco coir - e.g. 2 gallons
• ~25% compost or castings - e.g. 2 gallons
• Calcitic/dolomitic lime - Half cup (~8 tbsp)
• Eggshell meal - 4 tbsp

Use the best quality compost or earthworm castings you can find. This can be planted directly into, including seeds. The SAM#4 saves you the trouble of having to get any sphagnum peat or perlite at all and having to work with that, since it is already screened and mixed up.

For amending, the following (all per gallon):

• 1.5 - 2 tbsp Alfalfa meal (Down to Earth brand recommended)
• 1 - 1.5 tbsp Kelp meal
• 1.5 - 2 tbsp Fishbone meal
• 1.5 - 2 tbsp Neem seed meal, if available*
• 1 tsp Azomite (or rock dust, etc. @ recommended rate)

*High N guano may be used instead of Neem meal but isn't exactly the same. Don't go as heavy on the guano though, anything over a tbsp per gallon with the other materials probably isn't necessary. This mix can get pretty hot and needs to age for at least 3 weeks. After I mix it I spray it down with a solution of Alaskan fish fertilizer and blackstrap molasses, a couple tablespoons per gallon of water. I don't drench it with this, just spray it down.

The white mycelium you see developing in aging soil is most likely not mycorrhizal but saprophytic fungi. Most species of mycorrhizae simply don't grow without a plant host (roots), which is also why adding them to actively aerated compost tea is useless.

Nullis said:

The white mycelium you see developing in aging soil is most likely not mycorrhizal but saprophytic fungi. Most species of mycorrhizae simply don't grow without a plant host (roots), which is also why adding them to actively aerated compost tea is useless.

Click to expand...

Good point about the myco working with roots, I guess I didn't correctly identify the fungi on top. My bad for passing bad info. I actually know better, I only apply myco treatments in the transplant hole so the grains touch the roots directly.

Gotta ask this.. I dont see blood meal in your mix, any reason why?.. I'd like to get away from using it, because I literally want to barf after smelling it, but it seems like the soil works better with it.

Apologies to the OP for straying off topic

GrowerGoneWild said:

Good point about the myco working with roots, I guess I didn't correctly identify the fungi on top. My bad for passing bad info. I actually know better, I only apply myco treatments in the transplant hole so the grains touch the roots directly.

Gotta ask this.. I dont see blood meal in your mix, any reason why?.. I'd like to get away from using it, because I literally want to barf after smelling it, but it seems like the soil works better with it.

Apologies to the OP for straying off topic

Click to expand...

Blood meal simply isn't necessary, I've never used it. The alfalfa and neem meals are good sources of nitrogen, and when I am doing transplants with larger plants I put seabird guano into one of the soil layers. I also continue to use Alaskan fish fertilizer on occasion to add some additional organic matter to the soil.

I don't think the OP is coming back.

Nullis said:

Blood meal simply isn't necessary, I've never used it. The alfalfa and neem meals are good sources of nitrogen, and when I am doing transplants with larger plants I put seabird guano into one of the soil layers. I also continue to use Alaskan fish fertilizer on occasion to add some additional organic matter to the soil.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was thinking of other ways for N, I've gotten good results using blood meal... but I'm open to ideas, mebby alfalfa/kelp/neem meals. I wonder if they break down fast enough vs. blood meal.

I also do something similar with a guano layer, I'll work it into the top, and since i'm hitting that with an activated tea that will break that down into something usable by the plants.

A good portion of the Nitrogen in guano is available. Alfalfa meal and neem meal contain mostly insoluble N. Don't underestimate high quality compost or earthworm castings though, they can provide for plants for a while. Alaska fish fertilizer is mainly soluble N and it provides organic matter. It smells kind of fishy but I'd rather use it low-strength than add blood meal.

I guess it depends on what guano used, I'm hitting it with a high "P" guano. I also use EWC and a different brand liquid fish fertilizer.

Thinking out loud here..

I might do a test of swapping out the blood meal for fish meal and kelp it might have to cook longer but it might be a good change. Im thinking like fox farms ocean forest style soil.

Nullis said:

Base mix:

• 50% Sunshine Adv. Mix #4 - e.g. 4 gallons
• ~25% Coco coir - e.g. 2 gallons
• ~25% compost or castings - e.g. 2 gallons
• Calcitic/dolomitic lime - Half cup (~8 tbsp)
• Eggshell meal - 4 tbsp

Use the best quality compost or earthworm castings you can find. This can be planted directly into, including seeds. The SAM#4 saves you the trouble of having to get any sphagnum peat or perlite at all and having to work with that, since it is already screened and mixed up.

For amending, the following (all per gallon):

• 1.5 - 2 tbsp Alfalfa meal (Down to Earth brand recommended)
• 1 - 1.5 tbsp Kelp meal
• 1.5 - 2 tbsp Fishbone meal
• 1.5 - 2 tbsp Neem seed meal, if available*
• 1 tsp Azomite (or rock dust, etc. @ recommended rate)

*High N guano may be used instead of Neem meal but isn't exactly the same. Don't go as heavy on the guano though, anything over a tbsp per gallon with the other materials probably isn't necessary. This mix can get pretty hot and needs to age for at least 3 weeks. After I mix it I spray it down with a solution of Alaskan fish fertilizer and blackstrap molasses, a couple tablespoons per gallon of water. I don't drench it with this, just spray it down.

The white mycelium you see developing in aging soil is most likely not mycorrhizal but saprophytic fungi. Most species of mycorrhizae simply don't grow without a plant host (roots), which is also why adding them to actively aerated compost tea is useless.

Click to expand...

That looks like a solid mix -- it also looks a bit more user friendly than the mix that I've been experimenting with recently. I've been using the "1/3 compost, 1/3 aeration, 1/3 peat with 1/2 a cup of kelp meal, neem seed meal, crab shell meal, oyster shell flour as well as 3 cups of rock dust per cubic foot of base" recipe.

I think I fudged measuring out the base somehow and used too much castings/compost because it's not "fluffy" and it's hella dense after I water. I'm not happy with it at all. A few of my strains have done well in it (the more hardy ones) but even still, the growth rate wasn't at all what I'm used to. The more finicky strains I had to remove completely and transplant back into store bought soil. I'm positive it's 100 percent user error.

Anyway I think I'm going to try your recipe; not having to add any aeration sounds great. Do you think I could use crab shell meal and oyster shell flour in lieu of eggshell meal and dolomite lime? I have a trash bag full of each sitting in my garage.

And do you mulch your containers? I dig having that extra inch of root space but the fungus gnats that accompany it has made it not worth my while....even with the yellow stickies and mosquito dunks they get out of control with the mulch layer for some reason.

Yeah 33% compost/castings might be too much if it is denser material. After mixing you should be able to take a handful and basically make a "snow ball" out of it. It shouldn't fall apart readily and if you stick a finger into it the impression should remain without the whole thing crumbling. Definitely don't want it too heavy, though.

The other great thing about SAM#4 is that the peat in it is screened already (better consistency) and wetting agent added. I know that the sphagnum peat that comes in bales at the hardware store is typically not screened and can be somewhat trying to get hydrated.

You can substitute the eggshell for oyster shell flour entirely, they are very similar. I use dolomitic lime for the magnesium content and can't say for certain what would happen if it was cut out completely without another high-Mg amendment added. Crab shell meal I'm sure is fine to use, but it doesn't contain that much Mg. K-Mag/SulPoMag/sulfate of potash magnesia aka Langbeinite would actually be a perfect addition and would also be a great source of potassium (and sulfur). I supply blackstrap molasses throughout bloom instead for potassium.

I mulch my containers if I can get around to it. Sometimes I slack off on that, but I have used both green moss and alfalfa hay (chopped up) for the purpose. IDK how you use your mosquito dunks but if the gnats are that bad try grinding the dunk up and applying it as a powder directly to the soil surface. Otherwise try the mosquito bits instead or try to get predator mites in your soil.

My predator mite populations tend to explode when I mulch the containers, there will be so many of them they begin to march around the perimeter of the pot.