Is it bad that I want to go to war?

tnrtinr

Well-Known Member
yes, it does.

you may not think so, but it does anyway.
Tell me how you support the troops.

It is a cute catch-phrase; but leaving the people you support to fight a war that you don't - isn't giving much support.

Please cite specific examples of when you have supported the troops.
 

tnrtinr

Well-Known Member
Tebor.....I believe trtrnr question is one deriving of honor and moral obligation rather than monetary gain which was never presented in his opening remarks or since for that matter.
You are right, the money never even crossed my mind.

It is hard to explain and more difficult to articulate this feeling that I have. I wish it were easier so that I could lay out a concise argument.

I remember when I was graduating high-school and my mom telling me to go to college during the Gulf War in case the draft came back; because college kids get deferments.

I know that my desire is not "rational" because the inclination would be to avoid war at all costs. But the same mother that didn't support her own son entering the military supports both wars and is all for sending other peoples sons off to war. Why should it be them and not me? Having her cake and eating it too?

How can you lazy people tell me I am wrong for when you don't do shit to support the troops, end the war, contribute to the effort. Chillin on the couch and sparking a bowl and talking about how much war sucks is not supporting the troops; nor is it contributing to peace.
 

tnrtinr

Well-Known Member
Defending your county and offending another are 2 different things.

Please read Brigadier General Smedley Butlers 'War is a Racket'
as relevant today as it was in 1935 when it was published.
Also he is America's most decorated soldier.

an excerpt:
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."


It hasn't been about defending our country since The War of 1812.
Its about profit.

a person defending their homeland from foreign invaders is not a terrorist.
Great, he figured out the purpose of a soldier. It is no secret - but disturbing that it took Brigadier General 33 years and 4 months to figure it out. You think prior to 1812 people have fought to make the map look pretty? It has always been about economics (natural resources / population to exploit for labor and tax revenue).

“No matter what political reasons are given for war, the underlying reason is always economic.”
A. J. P. Taylor
 

natrone23

Well-Known Member
Tell me how you support the troops.

It is a cute catch-phrase; but leaving the people you support to fight a war that you don't - isn't giving much support.

Please cite specific examples of when you have supported the troops.

I figure the years He spent in the Marine Corps counts as supporting the troops.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
It was 40+ nations that it took to stop Hitler. Mostly they lost the war because of their failed invasion of Russia in the worst winter they have seen in decades. and Hitler having to clean up Mussolini's mess in Greece. Modern day Vikings actually had little to do with it.

WWII was predicted by many the day the Treaty of Versailles was signed.
Germany won all the major battles of WWI and were winning the war when they surrendered.
If Poland had just given Danzig back to Germany, WWII would have been prevented. Danzig was rightfully Germany's and its citizens were Germans.
Germany was largely successful during World War One to a point, but it made no serious gains after the lines had been established in 1914. World War One was a war of attrition and all sides beat each other senseless without much to show for it either way - until 1917.

Once the United States entered the fight, the game was up. By 1918, the Allies were poised to enter Germany and that is why Germany surrendered. That is also why Germans were so pissed off between the wars. They were never conquered, yet they were forced to shoulder the responsibility for the war. This opened the door for a bat-shit crazy little Corporal with a huge chip on his shoulder.

Germany lost World War Two because Hitler was insane.

Chamberlain discovered too late that appeasement only encourages an aggressor. Hitler said war could have been avoided if only Germany be allowed to annex Austria. That was fine until he used the same argument shortly thereafter on Czechoslovakia.

By this time, several senior members of the German military realized they had a madman on their hands. Hitler was intent on seizing Europe and he would risk going to war to accomplish it. Two problems for these Germans: 1) Shortly after assuming power in Germany, Hitler required all military officers to swear an oath of allegiance to him. 2) A coup had been in the works which would remove Hitler from power before he started a war, but Britain and France went along with Hitler's demands and war was averted for the time being.

By the time Hitler started making noises about Poland, it was too late. The Soviet Union and Germany had already determined who would get what once Poland capitulated. With or without Danzig, Germany was going to Poland. Germans needed elbow room. The Poles resisted, Hitler invaded and France and Britain had no choice but to declare war on Germany.

The Phony War began and France played while Britain got ready to fight. The fighting soon became real, but it was too late. When Germany arrived, the Allies were overwhelmed. And that is when Hitler made his first mistake.

He allowed roughly 400,000 BEF and French troops to escape to England in 1940. He halted the German Army for thirty-six hours just when they were about to reach the Channel and finish the job. Hermann Goering convinced him that the Luftwaffe could do it easily. This gave the British and French enough time to establish a narrow escape corridor which could be defended until the evacuation was complete. By the time he realized his error, Belgium had capitulated and his Generals were now looking South towards Paris. The Miracle at Dunkirk was made possible by Hitler.

France fell shortly thereafter and the Continent was his. On to England. Once again Goering convinced him that the Luftwaffe could soften up the British so that a land invasion would be a walk in the park. But Goering did not factor in the new British development, radar. And he severely underestimated British resolve. The Battle of Britain lost, Hitler would have to wait to enter England as a conquering hero.

At this point, what Hitler should have done was consolidate his gains on the Continent and allow his military to rest and refit, and figure out a way to cut England off from the West.

But Hitler was not a patient man. He had been convinced long ago of Arian superiority. The Continent was his, but he wanted it all and he wanted it right then. This impatience I speak of is why your Danzig solution fails.

This brings us to Hitler's second mistake; Barbarossa. War between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany was inevitable. The Fascists and the Communists detested and distrusted one another. The Non-aggression Pact was working out nicely for both sides, but Hitler was impatient. He should have been exploiting his new territorial gains, and allowing his scientists to further develop rocket and jet technology they invented.

But he didn't wait because he was insane and impatient. Had Hitler waited just a little while, England would have sued for peace and the U.S. would have gone along with whatever the British did if it meant avoiding a war with Germany.

Everybody knows about the V1 and V2 rockets employed by the Nazis, but many people don't realize that the Luftwaffe had several fighter jet squadrons by 1945, but because Germany was already beaten this new technology did not help them one bit. Had Germany a non-aggression pact with England, and once technological gains had been made, and his Armies refreshed; defeating the Soviets would have been easy.

Instead Hitler started a two-front war.

Which leads us to Hitler's third mistake. After Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and the British holdings in the Pacific, America was looking to Tokyo for revenge. But in his arrogance and insanity, Hitler did something that baffles military scholars today. Germany declared war on the United States. This gave Churchill exactly what he needed. He convinced Roosevelt, who did not need much convincing by this time, that Nazi Germany was a bigger threat than the country who actually attacked the U.S.

Throughout the war in the Pacific, the United States essentially fought the Japanese with one hand tied behind its back because Germany was the primary focus.
 

madcatter

Active Member
"How can you lazy people tell me I am wrong for when you don't do shit to support the troops, end the war, contribute to the effort. Chillin on the couch and sparking a bowl and talking about how much war sucks is not supporting the troops; nor is it contributing to peace."

How the fuck dare you self righteous little dick... After you have won your countries second highest award for gallantry... don't open up your fucking yap... Until you have laid it all on the line... I really don't think you have the right to question others motivations....

And as for your reasons of wanting to go to war.... man you really need to spend some serious time thinkin
 

tebor

Well-Known Member
Great, he figured out the purpose of a soldier. It is no secret - but disturbing that it took Brigadier General 33 years and 4 months to figure it out. You think prior to 1812 people have fought to make the map look pretty? It has always been about economics (natural resources / population to exploit for labor and tax revenue).

“No matter what political reasons are given for war, the underlying reason is always economic.”
A. J. P. Taylor
thats exactly my point.
the other poster said its about defending our country.
 

tnrtinr

Well-Known Member
"How can you lazy people tell me I am wrong for when you don't do shit to support the troops, end the war, contribute to the effort. Chillin on the couch and sparking a bowl and talking about how much war sucks is not supporting the troops; nor is it contributing to peace."

How the fuck dare you self righteous little dick... After you have won your countries second highest award for gallantry... don't open up your fucking yap... Until you have laid it all on the line... I really don't think you have the right to question others motivations....

And as for your reasons of wanting to go to war.... man you really need to spend some serious time thinkin
What was your reason for going to war?
 

madcatter

Active Member
Because it was my f'n Job... I was in and the shit happened...

Don;t go looking for answers to questions that don't need to be asked... but be very very sure of your motivations.... When you get into the shit your buddies are gonna need some one rock solid with them... if you can't be that effective team member... then perhaps you might want to consider an different career ,,,

And after the fact you will be changed and more than likely not for the better... Read Romeo Dallaires "Shake hands with the Devil" His nightmares will probably never ever go away... somedays they may just be less vivid than others... I pray that one day he can find peace and innocence again... poor bastard...
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
Well... good luck.

Those middle east dudes are fucking harder than any American gangster.

So go to the nearest ghetto, roll your windows down, drive slow, loiter at gas stations, to prepare yourself for the war.

Once you have reached American gangster status, then behead a few motherfuckers, hold up signs in a foreign language to a video camera and put it on youtube.

Now you are fully ready to fight in Iraq, or Afghanistan.

But I've heard a few bad stories...
Of course, this dude that came back, he was glad he went to fight. He ended up getting shot and fucking up his leg, but it's not like he's immobile. [As in, the definition of 'disabled' is entirely fucked up]

[His service was based entirely on a plea bargain... he walked from a meth charge for enlisting.]

But anyways, he was an 'American hero'; killed 4 of those 'sand-niggers' [in his words]

But they were near some village, and a little girl started running towards them... he shot her in the fucking face... she didn't even know what she was doing... he shot her, she fell down. Dead. Then she blew up.

And he told me he watches that in his head even when he's awake he gets those flashbacks.


Of course, he told me this over rails of his free oxycontin that the government pays for, in the house that he rents with his full pay that he is going to still receive for some time. He is made is all I know.
you obviously have low expectations in life...
 

The Real Peter Parker

Well-Known Member
you obviously have low expectations in life...
Made as far as he is concerned.

Meaning he lucked out on his war experience...

I really don't see my life taking anywhere near the path that that guy took.

And I refuse to accept the comment that I have low expectations in life. I plan to have my own business eventually. Seems like an unattainable goal in this economy, but I am still going to try.

I'm going to college, this guys high school education is questionable... notice that he was on a slinging meth charge?
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Because not supporting the troops at home is KNOWN by our enemies, and gives THEM moral support.

Get it? Didn't think so... that would be too easy, huh.

But that is the REAL way it works.
Dude, apply this same logic to your own thinking...

If you KNEW the civilians of an "enemy country", Iraq or Afghanistan, North Korea or Iran, you choose, didn't support their empires military conquest, would that honestly give you moral support?

Really...? Say China's military was all over the globe, like ours is, in what, like 138 different countries worldwide, and half the population didn't support it, that would make you feel good? Feel like you're winning some moral battle? You'd feel like the Chinese citizens are on your side or what?

Got news for you, battles aren't won with morality. Most of the time, they're won because of the absense of it.
And that's the REAL way it works, Cracka!

Tell me how you support the troops.
I'll come right out and say it, I don't support the troops. They're not fighting for my freedom. I don't need another man to fight for my freedom. If I ever feel like my freedom is threatened, that's the day I'll gladly pick up a rifle and defend it to the death if I have to, and justifiably so. If I die, I'll know I died doing the right thing.
You are right, the money never even crossed my mind.
Great, he figured out the purpose of a soldier. It is no secret - but disturbing that it took Brigadier General 33 years and 4 months to figure it out. You think prior to 1812 people have fought to make the map look pretty? It has always been about economics (natural resources / population to exploit for labor and tax revenue).
How could you possibly support a military conquest that kills innocent people for the sake of resources/profits for big business? Justify that for me.
I know that my desire is not "rational" because the inclination would be to avoid war at all costs. But the same mother that didn't support her own son entering the military supports both wars and is all for sending other peoples sons off to war. Why should it be them and not me? Having her cake and eating it too?
Fuck your moms opinion. This is your life, you decide how to live it.
 

yellowrain53

Well-Known Member
ive been to iraq once or twice and i assure you its EXACTLY like HALO........... you wanna go be a hero and see bad shit? go be an EMT or a firefighter......youll hardly get shot at and wont have to leave home.
 

yellowrain53

Well-Known Member
and as far as "supporting the troops".......none of the troops i ever knew ever gave a shit about any of that anyway. i personally wish that every "support our troops" ribbon-magnet in the country would spontaneously combust.
 

swishatwista

Well-Known Member
i agree w/ the last two posts. Everybody needs to take a reaaaal fuckin hard look at what you believe in, and see if you can separate it from all the bullshit that you'v been spoon fed, but in reality that spoon is fukin raping you. They want us to take pride in their bullshit.

Let me quote this, "you can always hire one half of the population to kill the other half"

if you really want suffering and hardache, go to ANY ghetto in America, and smoke a blunt and really try to grasp the situation at large. EVERYBODY's too impatient to understand the actual game thats going on, but if you sit down and try to become patient that second, you think shit's gonna change.

They're weakening all of us whether we know or like it or not, thats why we smoke, to shade our selves from other ppl's mind control's and the "normal" world's functioning order.

Shit's so fucked we cant even put our finger on the moral issues that really plague our lands. Stand up for something, or fall to anything...that doesnt mean join the army. Your hoping for a paradigm shift-for the better, mind you- by sniping ppl?..wtf. Thats a good way to feel what its like to take another person's life..through a scope hundreds of yards away...Sounds like GI Joe to me. I mean that would be the easiest thing to do, kill somebody in the hopes of person change, rather then actually making a difference in the world by taking difficult steps to help the starving anywhere else around the world, but then you'll find out that requires actual work, like getting educated to the way the world actually works, and it'll drop you on your ass. But then again were going for the route that requires less thinking and more gun play to bring change in your life and others. thats fucked up and selfish. I gotta keep reminding myself, ppl hate to think for themselves
 

CrackerJax

New Member
and as far as "supporting the troops".......none of the troops i ever knew ever gave a shit about any of that anyway. i personally wish that every "support our troops" ribbon-magnet in the country would spontaneously combust.

It's not about our troops, but they do care. When ur out on a limb, it's nice to know the folks who sent you ... care.

More importantly, it is the message sent to the ENEMY.

Case in point. Vietnam ... right after the TET offensive.

Now I don't know what you've been told about the TET offensive, but it was a complete failure for the Viet Cong. They failed to obtain ONE objective and their loss of life was horrendous.
The leaders knew they had spent the last best reserves of their manpower on TET, and it failed.
They were in the midst of discussing a way to a cease fire to get out of the conflict intact, when lo and behold there was Walter Cronkite on the news saying the war was lost for the USA. It was most certainly not, it was on the brink of victory. The USA had finally broken the Viet Cong.

BUT telegraphing the home loss of support was all the Viet Cong needed to HANG, till we did GIVE UP.

So you can all walk around and think you can have it both ways, but you can't.

Telegraphing weakness from home gets our guys killed. It's free propaganda for the enemy.
 

JimmyPot

Well-Known Member
Your just stoned and watch to many movies,play too many video games.It sucks over there.It is in the desert and over 100 every day you sleep on a crappy cot under a huge tent with 100 guys like prison.Are you tough or a popular guy if not you will get bullied by the other guys and you can't escape them.In the summer its 130 and that is super hot and you have to keep all your gear on.Only sick people want to see death and hard ship or a pot head with their head in the clouds who has no idea what they are dreaming about.
 
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