Is hydro really that much better than soil?

jumpy0ne said:

First- it's about the quality of your quantity. Both are important. Let us not lie.

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You are so right bro! Who cares if you've have quality medicine if you run out of it.

Now we are on 600W vs 1000W? haha Here in Washington State we only pay .07 cents a Kilowatt. That means it cost under $30/light/month. In California, power might be as high 21 cents a kilowatt (3X as much)! If power is expensive where you live then 600W lights rule, plain and simple. If you have cheap power then you can afford to run big lights.

All of us spouting off numbers like it really matters to some woman that's puking 12 times a day because of chemo and radiation treatments. I wish everyone of you could sit it down with one of my former patients and hang out with her for a day. Watch her hold her little girl on her knee and smile at you. Listen to her husband tell you that every morning he rolls over and if his wife is alive, it's going to be a good day. She's gone now but I'll never forget her. That's why I (try to) teach. So that others can help people like her. I know many of you hate me. I'm ok with that. I still love you.

When my dad was dying of prostate cancer I wasn't there to help him. I was overseas in the Navy. He puked so much one day he gave himself a stroke. After that he couldn't talk straight. He eventually lost the battle to cancer. So I guess I'm kind of trying to make up for not being there for him. If I could have been there to give him my medicine. I could have helped. So that's all I'm really trying to do is help. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

Now I get emails from fathers, husbands, sons and daughters thanking me for my help. I'm sorry if you think I'm something I'm not. I'm not trying to sell you a book. In fact everything, plans, instructions, photos are posted on my forum and you can download them for free. The only thing I ask is that if there is anyway for you to help someone in need.

Enjoy ripping into me fellas. You are right, I am wrong. Sorry!

Yield? Why of course it is of great importance. What good is the best pot you ever smoked, if you don't really get any of it when you flower? And that's because, a lot of people don't understand how low of a yield you can get. Here's a picture of one of my latest crosses that I am selecting for traits. This picture is about 3 weeks from being done... they are both ready to be harvested now. The plant on the right will yield nearly an ounce, the plant on the left about 2 grams maybe 3 tops. (I'm flowering under fluroscent lighting) so your going to get about 10 times or better with the plant on the right. Both are single cola plants, started into flowering at the same time, at the same size

So, what happens is, if you go for the low yielder, which might be a little better smoke? Well, at first you smoke less to some degree because it's better. Then your body adjusts, and you need to smoke about the same amount, as what you were smoking before... And then your always short on weed, and wishing for a big yielder.

Quality depends on the strain and the grower abilities. If you know what your doing then medium should not change things. Anyone that says hydro weed tastes different, they have not had good hydro then. Too me it is ease of use, hydro if set up correctly has less work, better control and less garbage to deal with. I grew in soil for years, now that I have gone to hydro I will never use soil again...just too messy and labour intensive! Good Luck

Another aspect, is value. If you sell any of the better low yielding product, odds are you won't get anymore $ for it. As there is a kind of kind bud mentality so to speak... where it's either kind bud, mids, or shwag. And it has to be priced accordingly within those confines of local markets.

Yeah, I think hydro tastes very similar to soil, unless your having a problem with it... Now, it might not equal every kind of soil mix. If you compare it to a good brand of premixed commercial soil like (Shultz's for example). I'd say hydro will equal it. But If you know how to mix stuff like Bat Guano and your own compost etc. You can prolly come out with better flavor then hydro. But that's an awful lot of work for a little better flavor... If your strains aren't that flavorfull to begin with it might be the way to go if you are really serious about it

Where does the used nute solution go? Toilet? Growing hydro is up to the individual. More power to the individual and his right to choose. Hydro that doesn't dump nutes into the environment is fine. Dumping nutes is as bad as what commercial farmers do. We now have the biggest dead zone in the gulf of Mexico ever. 2X as large as last year. All from fertilizer.

Side note- your plants will be more pest and disease resistant in a proper soil. In hydro- you won't have a balanced relationship with plant / microbes. Microbes can be a multi-billion strong army in the soil and in the leaves. Adding microbe mixes to the soil-less grow doesn't re-establish the relationship.

I think people miss the pest / disease resistance. That's certainly not saying that someone growing soil can't have a pest problem. It simply means the soil was lacking simple amendments that are very commonly used.

ROLS is also a lot cheaper, since it's recycled.

hellraizer30 said:

best yields to date with a ebb table 600w = 2lb 3zips and not just a fluke its almost everytime

WOW!!!!! 35 zips times 28 grams equals 980 grams divided by 600 (w) equals 1.63 grams per watt-----incredible.

If this is true-----then please substantiate this claim with pics, explanation or provide link/s-------because I'm eager to learn how to increase my grams per watt by 63%.

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share the love,

A~~~

Sir.Ganga said:

I grew in soil for years, now that I have gone to hydro I will never use soil again...just too messy and labour intensive!

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Hear, hear.

@StinkBud: you seem to be maneuvering yourself in a position where nobody here claims you are. You aren't being controversial, nobody is ripping into you or saying that your approach, methods, or systems are 'wrong'. It's just not as special as you seem to think. I'll say this though, your positivity seems to be genuine, I 'like'. And if you help others grow their own medicine and recreational mj, more power to you. I think you should raise the bar a little though.

jumpy0ne said:

Nothing says noob to Dutch growers like when they see N. Americans taking a sledge hammer to hammer a nail and then standing back all proud, practically demanding lavish praise and support. It's like the motoring world equivalent of American manufacturers setting fast times around easy tracks with 7 Litre engines and expecting Japanese and German manufacturers to feel rivaled.

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Oh, that image you paint is so spot on! Someone rep this guy for me please, I too recently did already. Don't get me wrong anyone, I learned more here in 6 months than I possibly could in 6 years in local forums. They learned a trick decades ago and repeat it over and over and very few actually understand and know what they are doing. Seriously, quantity is pretty much the only thing Dutch growers excel in (the rest is all hype and marketing). And there's a simple explanation for it too, everything is small and compact here, including our houses. We have to make due with relatively little space. Our gardens are sometimes referred to as postage stamps. Small houses also means relatively low electricity usage, so can't plant a bunch of 1k watters and still operate stealth (power companies, police, housing services, etc, etc work together in an anti-growers 'taskforce'). So the relatively high yields is something that evolved over time.

I see so many grows here with people hanging a lamp in a corner of a large room while they should be enclosing it entirely. Can't stress the difference of having reflective walls often enough. Aluminum foil or reflective plates (some sort of plastic with reflective side, I'll have in in my next closet later this year) reflect nearly twice as much light as white walls (based an unbiased clean and extensive test with all sorts of reflective materials, blocking out direct light from the light source, performed by a mod of a local forum - killed the oldskool white chalk myth).

That said, I've seen plenty of people here as well for who 1gpw or a little over 2lbs per 1k watter, isn't all that special anymore. It seems they rather not mentioned it too often because of the responses (being called a liar being a classic). It also seems those who get such high yields don't feel the need to prove it online, while others act like they aren't believed for claiming half such yields and brag about it...

Sativied said:

Don't get me wrong anyone, I learned more here in 6 months than I possibly could in 6 years in local forums.

Cool------care to give some examples? A weed forum is only as good as its contributors and I believe RIU still has a long way to go to match CW and OG in their prime.

They learned a trick decades ago and repeat it over and over and very few actually understand and know what they are doing. Seriously, quantity is pretty much the only thing Dutch growers excel in (the rest is all hype and marketing). And there's a simple explanation for it too, everything is small and compact here, including our houses. We have to make due with relatively little space. Our gardens are sometimes referred to as postage stamps. Small houses also means relatively low electricity usage, so can't plant a bunch of 1k watters and still operate stealth (power companies, police, housing services, etc, etc work together in an anti-growers 'taskforce'). So the relatively high yields is something that evolved over time.

Interesting insight, thanks. I've only visited the Dam once and kinda got a taste of the environment there-----my overall impression was "enlightened culture".


That said, I've seen plenty of people here as well for who 1gpw or a little over 2lbs per 1k watter, isn't all that special anymore.

No----but its still pretty good with our available technology.

It seems they rather not mentioned it too often because of the responses (being called a liar being a classic).

So what, anyone thats pulled 2 per 1K can spot the real deal and the wanna bes.

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Now where is my lighter,

A~~~

This thread got HYPE, but the real question is how big is your weeny cuz i heard you get massive yield the smaller it is

Alaric said:

Cool------care to give some examples?

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Every discussion that actually includes (more or less ) valid arguments, scientific, expert or other authoritative sources. There's hardly any discussion going on on my side of the big pond. No debate class in highschool, reading a book is not-cool here (a major understatement, quoting Jorge, Mel, Ed, Robert or all of them at the same time makes people angry ), scientific research is just theory, and they are quite sensitive (and seemingly insecure) about their 'beliefs'. Why do you wait for so much amber? [cases up to 50%, though I killed that myth... at least for a few weeks] "Cause I believe indicas should have more amber than sativas..." Why not green till the end? "Because I believe in yellow harvests". Why pluck leaves "because I believe whatever someone with more growing experience tells me." I like to base my decisions on what I know, not what I believe. And if I don't know something, I look it up - something looked down on over here. Information is instead passed on like in a Chinese whispers game. Some outdated, some distorted.

Obviously there are exceptions, heck the ones who know their shit probably don't even share it for commercial reasons, but the first time I stepped into a growshop is over 20 years ago. My oldest grow guide is from 1987 created by the owners of the first coffee and growshop (Mellow Yellow and Positronics respectively). I bought my first clones (Orange) 17 years ago (no haven't been growing that long, all my friends had plants in their garden, balcony or in a closet, normal back then in my neighborhood). Point being, I've listened and read dutch growing folklore for so long... I've as a manner of speaking 'seen' it being distorted (like the massive herma-fobia when it comes to fem seeds, the increasing amber ratio, flushing without understanding why when how and how much, dissing on clones-from-clones), and it took me only a few weeks at RIU to figure out that dutch could use an update. An update of information so they can make better-informed decisions.

If you keep both your eyes and both ears wide open (in the land of the blind...) there's so much useful knowledge on RIU alone. Topics that make growing MJ less of a blackbox. Less wet-finger-work as we say (suck on finger, hold wet finger in air to determine wind direction). But really, RIU was just and example, I 'read' quite a few other international forums on almost a daily basis, and I could make the same comparison with any of those to 'the' local forum. I like this one the best because people care a little less about tone as long as it includes somewhat rational arguments instead of just belief. Makes an oddball narcissistic a-hole like me stand out less

Alaric said:

my overall impression was "enlightened culture".

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The theme park "the Dam" gives a skewed impression, a good one but skewed nonetheless. I love Amsterdam, favorite place in the world, but that's because there are so many different cultures that's aren't like mine (while I'm barely 50miles from A'dam). Babylon 5 for stoners. But if you'd read up a bit on the history of Dutch coffeeshops and seedbanks you'd see it's quite a dirty history, little Dutch involvement to be proud of yet people all over the world act like they grow the best weed. Bullshit.

Alaric said:

Now where is my lighter,

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Here, use mine

HYdro guys haha always swear their buds taste the same or better than organic........lmao.....watch them come out the wood works...shhhh just watch........ps Iv'e done plenty of side by side to compare.....I know the truth find out for yourself......this is a never ending argument.....

Rrog said:

Where does the used nute solution go? Toilet? Growing hydro is up to the individual. More power to the individual and his right to choose. Hydro that doesn't dump nutes into the environment is fine. Dumping nutes is as bad as what commercial farmers do. We now have the biggest dead zone in the gulf of Mexico ever. 2X as large as last year. All from fertilizer.

Side note- your plants will be more pest and disease resistant in a proper soil. In hydro- you won't have a balanced relationship with plant / microbes. Microbes can be a multi-billion strong army in the soil and in the leaves. Adding microbe mixes to the soil-less grow doesn't re-establish the relationship.

I think people miss the pest / disease resistance. That's certainly not saying that someone growing soil can't have a pest problem. It simply means the soil was lacking simple amendments that are very commonly used.

ROLS is also a lot cheaper, since it's recycled.

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I have had the exact opposite scenario, in soil I always had issues with un-wanted critters in one form or another, with hydro keeping your room clean is the only issue. Where does your soil go when your done with it? Sadly my friend whatever you grow in it all ends up back with mother nature in one form or another.

The soil is used for one grow after the other. Not tossed. Haven't had a mite or a blight in 2+ years after simple amendments to the soil. Nothing fancy. Neem, crabshell, etc. Worms castings, also. The microbes keep things in order. And obviously they're everywhere. In every breath you take, literally.

Rrog said:

The soil is used for one grow after the other. Not tossed. Haven't had a mite or a blight in 2+ years after simple amendments to the soil. Nothing fancy. Neem, crabshell, etc. Worms castings, also. The microbes keep things in order. And obviously they're everywhere. In every breath you take, literally.

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Hats off to you for the efforts made. I made my own soils for a year or so, not to your extent and it was a lot of work...a lot of work. I wasn't set up for it, didn't have a mixing area and after my illness it was just too much. What I have done to lessen my hydro foot print is, My flower rooms top ppm is 14-1600 and falls off to my flush at 200(tap water), I reuse my leftovers for the weaker solutions by diluting it until it can not be used due to low ppm. This also works really well for the veg room, almost better, I literally have no waste there, I use the low ppm run-off for my cloner and soaking solution. I know its not perfect but I think I have done a good job for my part and it saves money also.

Sounds groovy! Seriously. Plus who doesn't love to see the emerald arches in a guy's avatar??

One cool thing about the ROLS soil is you don't re-mix. Leave it be, let the microbes digest the root, store it as food for the next plant. I just think that's cool.

Grow on my brother.

So...you basically rotate your soil then. You grow in it then feed with it...Nice!

Alaric said:

share the love,

A~~~

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I like stinkbud would love to help! Helping is the only reason im still here on riu! But and yes theres a (but)
i will not post pics just not going to happen.

so if thats a deal breaker then good day! But if your wanting to learn then hit me up anytime in PM or just start
a thread, PM might be easyer.



@stink im not ripping into you! Your cause is the same as mine!
Keep doing what your doing stink

StinkBud said:

You are so right bro! Who cares if you've have quality medicine if you run out of it.

Now we are on 600W vs 1000W? haha Here in Washington State we only pay .07 cents a Kilowatt. That means it cost under $30/light/month. In California, power might be as high 21 cents a kilowatt (3X as much)! If power is expensive where you live then 600W lights rule, plain and simple. If you have cheap power then you can afford to run big lights.

All of us spouting off numbers like it really matters to some woman that's puking 12 times a day because of chemo and radiation treatments. I wish everyone of you could sit it down with one of my former patients and hang out with her for a day. Watch her hold her little girl on her knee and smile at you. Listen to her husband tell you that every morning he rolls over and if his wife is alive, it's going to be a good day. She's gone now but I'll never forget her. That's why I (try to) teach. So that others can help people like her. I know many of you hate me. I'm ok with that. I still love you.

When my dad was dying of prostate cancer I wasn't there to help him. I was overseas in the Navy. He puked so much one day he gave himself a stroke. After that he couldn't talk straight. He eventually lost the battle to cancer. So I guess I'm kind of trying to make up for not being there for him. If I could have been there to give him my medicine. I could have helped. So that's all I'm really trying to do is help. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

Now I get emails from fathers, husbands, sons and daughters thanking me for my help. I'm sorry if you think I'm something I'm not. I'm not trying to sell you a book. In fact everything, plans, instructions, photos are posted on my forum and you can download them for free. The only thing I ask is that if there is anyway for you to help someone in need.

Enjoy ripping into me fellas. You are right, I am wrong. Sorry!

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Ahhhh good guilt trippin' there StinkBud.

I'm sorry for your losses. I'm glad you help people. Nobody believes that other users here have no personal traumas or profound life experiences. Nobody is saying you don't care for those around you or that you haven't helped people. Live and love. I wish you well. Try swapping your 1000w for 600w. If you get the results you do with a thousand banger you'll get more from using the same wattage in 600w and 400w.