Is 50watt per sq foot a must?

whiterhyno420 · Nov 9, 2009

bloomfields said:
i guess but the quality from a sodium bulb would by far improve his quality of smoke!! by the time u have plugged in all those cfl's he isnt really saving anything , also if you cant learn by other people mistakes then whats the point in forums , btw have you ever grown nirvana ice ??? any info would be cool

red: im not arguing with that it is true but its no need to if its personal smoke!!!!

blue:what do u mean wen u keep saying hes not saving nothing

and no im working on getting some white widdow

whiterhyno420 · Nov 9, 2009

gangjababy said:
HPS/MH lights connect to a ballast which plugs into a wall
CFL's will work alright, if you set it up right. I got 3.5 ounces using 12 cfl's in a rubber maid coated with mylar as a reflector.

heres is living proof that it can be done with cfls

Anjinsan · Nov 9, 2009

SmokeSomething said:
Ill germ like 6 of them, so 1-4 females? .. and then use the SCROG technique ...

around 300 actual watts, grown in soil, as for nutes.. i have no real experience so im just gonna wing it with whatever looks right to me at the garden store.

If you are a personal grower...buy feminized seeds. That's my 2 cents.

I am going to try my very first scrog right along with ya! I just put a popped Dutch Passion Brainstorm into the dirt today!

I was able to get 2 ounces off one plant with cfls btw. But SCROG seems to be a superior method for cfls...so onto scrog i go.

Anjinsan · Nov 9, 2009

The easiest nutes to find for soil are: a bag of blood meal mixed into your dirt (not the whole thing of course...maybe a handful of bloodmeal for 3 gallons of dirt)...then covered with 2" of soil w/o blood meal. Plant. By the time the plant is feeding off the blood meal areas heavy...it's grown big enough for nutes.

Then I use MG 15 - 30 - 15 powder fertilzer for the flowering phase. I also add either a bit of blackstrap unsulphured molasses or Botanicare Sweet in flowering.

SmokeSomething · Nov 9, 2009

gangjababy said:
HPS/MH lights connect to a ballast which plugs into a wall
CFL's will work alright, if you set it up right. I got 3.5 ounces using 12 cfl's in a rubber maid coated with mylar as a reflector.

So its like a converter kind of? ... wow I always thought you had to wire them directly... damn, do they sell the ballast at a lowes ? or an Ace/TrueValue hardware store? I asked about HPS a couple times and was always told you had to wire it directly so i never really looked into it more. :wall:

Killface · Nov 9, 2009

Ive gotten 2 lbs from 3 plants using scrog and T5s, which are technically a cfl. I use 4 sunblaze 48s over a 4x8 area. Almost no heat output, i had to use a space heater to keep things at 75. The reason I use the T5s instead of HPS is for one, Heat signatures, two you can put them within 3 inches of the buds, and three, its cheaper! 12 dollar bulb or a 100 dollar bulb....

bloomfields · Nov 10, 2009

whiterhyno420 said:
red: im not arguing with that it is true but its no need to if its personal smoke!!!!

blue:what do u mean wen u keep saying hes not saving nothing

and no im working on getting some white widdow

hey all im saying is by the time hes spent electricity on howeva many cfl's he may aswell plug in a hid & done ........ i started on cfl grows and remember thinking "why didnt some1 tell me" lol - you obs no what your talking about and im not arguing your points- i love growing theres so much advice out there and so many diff ways to achieve your results- its great fun

- btw im growing -cheese-cali orange-the church-all are 3 weeks into flower-plus 10 femmed nirvana ice, im using a 600w sodium & 250w metal hal combined into 1 big shade- i grow in soil and space isnt an issue and also room is well vented , i want to add another 600w sodium but need more funds -in my small veg cupboard i have a 125 giant eco thing and 3 cool white 37watt tubes, i veg at night but place all plants in flowering room when lit .............
any advice u can gimme i would love it , ty whiterhyno
ive given you a rep hit lol you earned it

pEEEEACE!!!!!

gangjababy · Nov 10, 2009

SmokeSomething said:
So its like a converter kind of? ... wow I always thought you had to wire them directly... damn, do they sell the ballast at a lowes ? or an Ace/TrueValue hardware store? I asked about HPS a couple times and was always told you had to wire it directly so i never really looked into it more.

Well the flood lights wire into the wall but they still have a ballast, check out HTG supply, they sell lights with ballasts and reflectors. You can't really get growing supplies at a hardware store.

MrBlanco · Nov 10, 2009

I've got 3 three plants in an 8.75sq.ft. room with a total of 10 26w bulbs on them right now. There's three bulbs on each plant with one hanging in the middle, for 78w and over 5000 lumens per square foot (not counting the hanging one). They're vegging very nicely with pretty tight internodes and the preflowers on my white widow are fat and already crystally. I'll still be stepping up to a 400w hps when I get my tax refund, though. My plan is to grow for personal use with enough surplus to cover overhead including new gear and make some extra dough. Ultimately I want to reach 1g/w, but ideally I'd like to pull 3/4lbs. a month and use a qp between my wife and I. I'll have six strains. I've already got three, have two more on the way (Attitude free seeds), and I'm still deciding on the last...either NL#5 or a purple strain. Right now it's going to be some schwag bag seed to practice germinating before I try with the Attitude seeds. I'm sorry, I'm stoned and rambling.

bloomfields said:
hey all im saying is by the time hes spent electricity on howeva many cfl's he may aswell plug in a hid & done ........ i started on cfl grows and remember thinking "why didnt some1 tell me" lol - you obs no what your talking about and im not arguing your points- i love growing theres so much advice out there and so many diff ways to achieve your results- its great fun - btw im growing -cheese-cali orange-the church-all are 3 weeks into flower-plus 10 femmed nirvana ice, im using a 600w sodium & 250w metal hal combined into 1 big shade- i grow in soil and space isnt an issue and also room is well vented , i want to add another 600w sodium but need more funds -in my small veg cupboard i have a 125 giant eco thing and 3 cool white 37watt tubes, i veg at night but place all plants in flowering room when lit .............
any advice u can gimme i would love it , ty whiterhyno
ive given you a rep hit lol you earned it
pEEEEACE!!!!!

Did you think about the cost of initial setup?

bloomfields · Nov 11, 2009

MrBlanco said:
I've got 3 three plants in an 8.75sq.ft. room with a total of 10 26w bulbs on them right now. There's three bulbs on each plant with one hanging in the middle, for 78w and over 5000 lumens per square foot (not counting the hanging one). They're vegging very nicely with pretty tight internodes and the preflowers on my white widow are fat and already crystally. I'll still be stepping up to a 400w hps when I get my tax refund, though. My plan is to grow for personal use with enough surplus to cover overhead including new gear and make some extra dough. Ultimately I want to reach 1g/w, but ideally I'd like to pull 3/4lbs. a month and use a qp between my wife and I. I'll have six strains. I've already got three, have two more on the way (Attitude free seeds), and I'm still deciding on the last...either NL#5 or a purple strain. Right now it's going to be some schwag bag seed to practice germinating before I try with the Attitude seeds. I'm sorry, I'm stoned and rambling.

Did you think about the cost of initial setup?

all rambling welcome lol,
i did used to grow with cfl's flower and veg,
but the fact remains with cfl's you achieve airy loose budds, but with hid's you get clustered nuggets that weigh more so you get more ?
its not about the lumens its about the light that the plants actually use, im only talking from experience here everybody has differnt views, your cfl's are fine for vegging, but are only about 35% effecient as apose to a orange glowing hps bulb that your plants can use!!
remember the light that you can see is not what the plants use you can measure lumens until ur blue in the face if your not giving them the part of light spectrum they need your wasted lumens are floating around in space

remember marijuana is a weed give it air,water and any light it will grow- guess its down to what results u actually strive for .............
nice read ty
i hit your rep!!!
good luck

swazifarmer · Nov 11, 2009

The biggest advantage to CFLs is you can control heat and red and blue rays unlike a HPS set-up which is almost entirety red rays, for healthy flowering you also need blue light 6500k in the mix, so even if you're using a HPS for flowering you really also want to use some CFLs for a mix of light

RanTyr · Nov 11, 2009

bloomfields said:
i guess but the quality from a sodium bulb would by far improve his quality of smoke!! by the time u have plugged in all those cfl's he isnt really saving anything , also if you cant learn by other people mistakes then whats the point in forums , btw have you ever grown nirvana ice ??? any info would be cool

Using HPS over cfl will not affect potency. At all. Please provide the studies that indicate such a thing is possible ifyou are going to make claims that fly in the face of conventional botany.

MrBlanco · Nov 11, 2009

bloomfields said:
all rambling welcome lol,
i did used to grow with cfl's flower and veg,
but the fact remains with cfl's you achieve airy loose budds, but with hid's you get clustered nuggets that weigh more so you get more ?
its not about the lumens its about the light that the plants actually use, im only talking from experience here everybody has differnt views, your cfl's are fine for vegging, but are only about 35% effecient as apose to a orange glowing hps bulb that your plants can use!!
remember the light that you can see is not what the plants use you can measure lumens until ur blue in the face if your not giving them the part of light spectrum they need your wasted lumens are floating around in space
remember marijuana is a weed give it air,water and any light it will grow- guess its down to what results u actually strive for .............
nice read ty
i hit your rep!!!
good luck

Thanks, bro. I hit ya back.

I'm right there with you. However, $30-50 initial setup cost vs. $160+ (shipped) plus the cost of cooling it.

Personally, I would've started with a 400w hps if I'd had the cash. All said and done, a DIY light is only going to save a few bones over a budget light from HTG, so I'll just save for one or wait until tax time. In the mean time, my first crop will come in with cfls and I'm still learning a lot about what not to do. Maybe the OP is in a similar situation.

bloomfields · Nov 11, 2009

RanTyr said:
Using HPS over cfl will not affect potency. At all. Please provide the studies that indicate such a thing is possible ifyou are going to make claims that fly in the face of conventional botany.

umm i said "quality" not potency" ?

Illegal Smile · Nov 11, 2009

I can grow buds just as dense with cfls as anybody can with any other kind of light. But most people growing with cfls are a) not using enough because they are doing it on the cheap and b) doing things wrong. And that's why you see airy buds grown with cfls.

IMO if heat is a problem the best approach is T5 HOs overhead and cfls on the sides. If heat is not a problem then sure, use hps.

Roseman · Nov 11, 2009

Most CFLs put out 60 to 65 lumens per sq ft and 50 watts = about 3000 lumens and 3000 lumens pere sq ft is the bottom minimum required. 5000 lumens per sq ft is excellent.
And you will need a lot more for the Flowering Cycle to get some tight buds.

If you will, you can be an expert on CFLs, reading this:
L I G H T S Page 7

RanTyr · Nov 11, 2009

bloomfields said:
umm i said "quality" not potency" ?

Quality implies quality of the bud. Potency, flavor and smell are the three qualitative properties of marijuana.

If you meant to say "quantity" then it was a miscommunication on your part. I still have issues with that statement, even with the word substitution.

If you meant to imply that flavor or odor are superior using and HPS then you are also mistaken.

Roseman · Nov 12, 2009

CFLs vs HID Lights

If you want to start an arguement fast, then visit an Internet Grow Forum or Chat Room and mention CFLs vs HID Lights.
Let me just tell you a fact. HID Lights (High Intensity Discharge Lights) are much more efficient than CFLs (Compact Flourscent Lights) and they grow FASTER and penetrate a large plant much better than CFLs do. HID lights grow tighter denser buds too. That is a fact no one should argue. HIDs win easily.
Wait a minute. What costs more to purchase? What requires a fancier Reflector and costs more to hang? What cost more to use and adds more to the electric bill? What cost more to handle the HEAT?

HEAT? I can touch a 200 watt CFL for ten seconds and not burn my hand. I can hold a burning 42, 65, or 85 watt bulb in my hand for five seconds and not get burnt. I can touch a HID bulb for half a second and have a serious blister and burn. Touching a HID bulb is like touching the burner on an electric stove. If you use HID bulbs, not only will you have to cool the bulb, you will have to cool the grow area too. Growing with HID lights requires VENTING the HEAT, and that cost extra money.

If you are a large scale grower, or commercial grower, HID lights are best for you.
If you are a small grower, a closet or tent grower, then CFLs are your best, easiest, cheapest way to grow.

As I mentioned, I like the cheaper CFLs because of their mobility and ease of use. When I did my first grow three years ago, a 65 watt CFL was the largest made and sold. Today I see up to 300 watt CFLS, but I do not advise using the larger watt CFL bulbs.

Roseman · Nov 12, 2009

From Ed Rosenthal:

In the new Skunk Magazine there was a question in the "Ask Ed" section that just made my night last night when reading it...

The question was:

I intend to grow a single cannabis plant in a space 1' x 2'. What light would you recommend? I was think of using four 30-watt compact fluorescent lamps. Will this be enough? Cost isn't an issue but I am deterred from getting a high pressure sodium [light] because of the amount of heat the bulb produces.

Answer:

As you mentioned, you have several lighting systems to choose from, including compact fluorescents and high pressure sodium (HPS) lamps. Among HPS lamps you have a choice between a single 100-watt lamp which uses a total of about 120-watts and emits about 8,800 lumens(73 lumens per watt) or a 150-watt lamp, which uses about 180 watts and emits almost double that-15,800 lumens (87 lumens per watt).

A 42-watt compact fluorescent (CFL) emits about 2700 lumens(64 lumens per watt). Four 42 watt CFLs use 168 watts and emit 10,800 lumens. Other size CFLs have a similar efficiency.

However, that is only part of the story. Plants use mostly red and blue light. Yellow and green light is of little use to them, so light that is emitted in these spectrums is wasted energy. Most of the light emitted by HPS lamps is in the yellow spectrum. Only a small amount of the emitted light is is in the orange or red spectrums, which plants use efficiently. Warm white fluorescents (2700 Kelvin) emit a greater portion in the red and orange sectors.
Although fluorescents produce only about 75% of the light per watt that the HPS does, the amount of light usable by the plant is equal or probably higher with the fluorescents. You may wish to experiment to see if adding a single cool white CFL to replace one warm white results in shorter, stouter stems and more vigorous growth. The reasoning is that warm whites don't emit much blue light, which the plants use for photosynthesis and to regulate their growth. The cool white bulb supplies the blue light.

My call for your unit would be to use several (three to five) CFLs with a total input of between 120-160 watts. Although the 150 watt HPS is a bit more efficient that the CFLs in total output, watt for watt the fluorescents provide as much useful light as the HPS lamp. Heat is another consideration. The HPS runs much hotter and emits more heat than the fluoescents.

Make sure to use reflective material around the garden so that any light escaping the garden is reflected back to the plants. Any light that doesn't get to the plant leaves is wasted.

Look at a lumen/watt ration of various CFL's. The higher the wattage of CFLs, the lower the lumen/watt ratio. This chart was submitted by Jerry Garcia, of RIU and edited for typos.

For example...

the 200w listed at 9250 lumens for a lumens/watt ratio of 9250/200=46.25

the 150w is listed at 7500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 7500/150=50

the 125w is listed at 6500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 6500/125=52

the 42w are listed for 2700 lumens, l/w ratio of 2700/42=64.28

I have some 26w that give off 1700 lumens for a l/w ratio of 1700/26=65.38

GE lists some 13w that give off 825 lumens for a l/w ratio of 825/13=63.46

So, according to these numbers the most efficient bulbs for growing are the 26w that emit 1700 lumens. If you used 8 26w bulbs (208 watts total) you'd be getting 13,600 lumens...4,350 more lumens than a single 200 watt cfl.

I suppose you need to purchase more sockets and cords and things to support 8 bulbs, but in the long run more lower watt CFLs seem like the way to go.

Roseman · Nov 12, 2009

Three years ago, I only had 4 bulbs on each tank, 2 65s and 2 85s.

how sweet it is!
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Is 50watt per sq foot a must?

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