Input needed from a experienced RDWC/UC grower

fragileassassin said:

I'm not sure why you expect your water volume to be nearly the same as mine with a system 1/3 the size. My system is 90 gallons of water total with it an inch below my pots. I have 12 17 gallon sites and a 55 gallon HDX box control res.

And dont go any bigger than 800gph with 6 sites, even with that you may have issues with a chiller keeping up with your volume.

I touch my system 1 time a week and left it go for 3 months with just top off this grow. Youre just over complicating things imo. If youre going to use a top off res, you dont need much of a control res at all like my veg setup.

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Thanks again for the input, the main reason for the larger Rez that I keep going back to was expansion purposes at a later date but it's not really that hard to make a new Rez later.

Do you recommend sqaure buckets or rubber maid tubs for the 6 sites?

Just out of curiosity what type of lighting are you running?

TIMtoKILL said:

offers both DIY and pre built. They also have a coupon code: RIU for $25 off your order.

I’m not paid by them but I’m a super satisfied customer. Dan even helped me out with finding exactly which light I wanted.

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I've looked at those, a little on the pricey side for what I believe I'll need in the 8x4. Might give them a call though and see if they can convince me.....lol I've seen Dan on a few other forums before

70's natureboy said:

I've got a stack of digital ballasts that failed after a year or two. I went back to the reliable magnetic ballasts. I didn't like the RF interference anyway.

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I thought it was the magnetic ballasts that made the RF interference.

E.T, what makes you pick undercurrent as your first system to grow with.. What's your hoped for yield with this type setup... I've never tried undercurrent because it seems like too much work..
Heath Robinson posted a pic of waterfarms set up as undercurrent but still using the dripring to water the hydroton.. Best of both worlds...

TBH I've always wanted to try Hydroponics since I was young, I've grown outdoors but it's been almost 20 years. Before my mother died of cancer my (step) father was growing for her(non hydroponics) to make Cannabis oil and it kinda rekindled my love for growing. Based on what I've read on this forum and many others UC systems kinda run themselves after you get it dialed in, that's why I added the top off Rez. I think there a little harder to build for some people. Now maybe those people are telling a tale....lol...but I'm looking for a system that will run with little upkeep, there will be adjustments to make though like any growing system. I like the fact you can control every aspect of the environment. The hardest part so far in the planning stages has been my light choice, never have grown under a light I've noticed how opinionated people are with lights. From the forums I searched people have posted some quality buds with just about all of them. My issue will be heat since it gets so hot and humid in my part of the country, even if I choose a Cob system I know I'm gonna need AC in my basement. It's a swamp in east texas for 6-8 monthes out of the year and if I want to keep the air and water temps in the optimum conditions I'm gonna need AC.

As for yields I've still got more research to do before I'm ready to make that call. So far in my research I've seen some impressive yields in a UC system but in many other systems too. To start I'm looking at Quality over Quantity and I could very well fail right from the start but I'll learn from it and keep moving on.

mytwhyt said:

E.T, what makes you pick undercurrent as your first system to grow with.. What's your hoped for yield with this type setup... I've never tried undercurrent because it seems like too much work..
Heath Robinson posted a pic of waterfarms set up as undercurrent but still using the dripring to water the hydroton.. Best of both worlds...

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Undercurrent has a lot of up front work but It pays off in the long run. More gallons in your system means more buffer for ph.
Undercurrent also has insane growth. My last run i did a 3 week veg and it was a jungle by stretch. Next run I’m going for 2 weeks with 2 plants in a 4x3 foot space. Of coarse this will also depend on lights but it’s a low maintenance high output system.

TIMtoKILL said:

Undercurrent has a lot of up front work but It pays off in the long run. More gallons in your system means more buffer for ph.
Undercurrent also has insane growth. My last run i did a 3 week veg and it was a jungle by stretch. Next run I’m going for 2 weeks with 2 plants in a 4x3 foot space. Of coarse this will also depend on lights but it’s a low maintenance high output system.

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Agreed. I started with a diy 8 bucket RDWC system for a couple of years and currently run a 4 tote UC system. Uses about double the volume and has produced massive growth. Only real issue I've run into is keeping all of the root growth in the tote.

GBAUTO said:

Agreed. I started with a diy 8 bucket RDWC system for a couple of years and currently run a 4 tote UC system. Uses about double the volume and has produced massive growth. Only real issue I've run into is keeping all of the root growth in the tote.

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same lol. specially with longer veg times.

fragileassassin said:

Also. I'd ditch the air pump and stones and go with waterfalls. I switched from airstones. Pretty much keep it how you have it but turn that return line into a feed line along the top. Just run a 1" line down the middle and branch off to 1/2 or so into the sites.

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What's the deal with airstones? They no good now? Heard a lot of ppl switching to water falls, but not sure how that's different than an air stone? Isn't the splashing from a water fall just mixing the same atmospheric air that the pump uses? I'm all for not having to buy extra gear but I've bought airstones and used plenty (never went overboard with those big powerful steel cased pumps, just cheap $5-$10 plastic aquarium pumps) and now curious how much a difference is being observed?? Maybe ill switch, if it really is making a difference???
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@E.Texan
Had great results w recirc topfed coco and is super easy on maitenence, very forgiving (biggest pain is keeping up w raising lights lol). Fast growing but not sure if it's faster than RDWC, maybe others can chime in. I almost think having the roots cycle through water/dry/water/dry helps promote growth, but I could be wrong, either way they are both going to produce.

I'm currently experimenting w RDWC, and noticing fast that a big reservoir will definitely make it much easier to maintain. I use 5gal bucket as a reservoir (only able to fill up to 3 gal due to net pots hanging down) between/for (2) 5gal DWC sites (3 buckets in a row, middle bucket is reservoir, 3 gal each) and now that they starting to get bigger, I'm having to top off daily. I'm not even in flower yet. I'd recommend at least equal parts volume of res for equal parts volume of grow sites (if grow sites are around 3-5ish gal size). My 3gal res to 6gal DWC (2 sites) is better than nothing but if your girls are going to get big then they are going to drink alot and I'm only at a little under a ft and mine are becoming slightly maintenance heavy.

** Also newer to tents, but I think I would rather use multiple small ones than one big one. Personally the bigger ones make it hard to get to that second row, I prefer being able to work on the plant without having to reach over another one or around another one, and there's hardly any room inside the tent for me to try to get in there and work on things. My bigger tent was butted up against a wall and was the only place I could fit it in, so you probably will be just fine with zipper windows if your able to keep it away from the wall, I just couldn't in my space, just my $0.02.

From seed coco...

4wks coco, barely touched...



3 bucket RDWC...

6wk from seed, topped several times..

JSheeze said:

What's the deal with airstones? They no good now? Heard a lot of ppl switching to water falls, but not sure how that's different than an air stone? Isn't the splashing from a water fall just mixing the same atmospheric air that the pump uses? I'm all for not having to buy extra gear but I've bought airstones and used plenty (never went overboard with those big powerful steel cased pumps, just cheap $5-$10 plastic aquarium pumps) and now curious how much a difference is being observed?? Maybe ill switch, if it really is making a difference???


I'm currently experimenting w RDWC, and noticing fast that a big reservoir will definitely make it much easier to maintain. I use 5gal bucket as a reservoir (only able to fill up to 3 gal due to net pots hanging down) between/for (2) 5gal DWC sites (3 buckets in a row, middle bucket is reservoir, 3 gal each) and now that they starting to get bigger, I'm having to top off daily. I'm not even in flower yet. I'd recommend at least equal parts volume of res for equal parts volume of grow sites (if grow sites are around 3-5ish gal size). My 3gal res to 6gal DWC (2 sites) is better than nothing but if your girls are going to get big then they are going to drink alot and I'm only at a little under a ft and mine are becoming slightly maintenance heavy.

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Air stones and pumps work, but they're are just another thing that need maintenance/cleaning. The big pumps get hot and the warm air heats up your water. The stones get clogged. They are not really practical for large setups and imo thats really what it came down to for me. IMO i wouldnt use them with anything bigger than a 2-4 site setup after my experience with them. Tried em myself and im much happier with my waterfalls. I started with more of a connected bubble bucket setup with small water pumps to just keep water levels the same and the water moving. I ditched the air stones and went with large pumps and sprayers making it more undercurrent rdwc and my plants and roots doubled in size in the next week. Res temps are much easier to control than they were too.

He said he's going to use a top off tank on a float valve. If youre using some type of automated top off like this, its not really needed at all. My veg setup has no control res.
I use a 55 gallon barrel on a float valve in my res on my flower setup. They drank 10 gallons out of it in the last 24 hours.
With how things have gone on my grow I wish I would have got a control res that was half the size as the one I got. Im still considering changing it after this crop so I can make my pumps inline and out of the res.

fragileassassin said:

Air stones and pumps work, but they're are just another thing that need maintenance/cleaning. The big pumps get hot and the warm air heats up your water. The stones get clogged. They are not really practical for large setups and imo thats really what it came down to for me. IMO i wouldnt use them with anything bigger than a 2-4 site setup after my experience with them. Tried em myself and im much happier with my waterfalls. I started with more of a connected bubble bucket setup with small water pumps to just keep water levels the same and the water moving. I ditched the air stones and went with large pumps and sprayers making it more undercurrent rdwc and my plants and roots doubled in size in the next week. Res temps are much easier to control than they were too.

He said he's going to use a top off tank on a float valve. If youre using some type of automated top off like this, its not really needed at all. My veg setup has no control res.
I use a 55 gallon barrel on a float valve in my res on my flower setup. They drank 10 gallons out of it in the last 24 hours.
With how things have gone on my grow I wish I would have got a control res that was half the size as the one I got. Im still considering changing it after this crop so I can make my pumps inline and out of the res.

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Holy roots! Haha very nice!
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10gal/day? Thats crazy those roots are massive. I normally went through 1.25-1.5gal/day/lady but my roots weren't quite that developed. How much do your DWC site tubs hold? Are you saying 55gal res is to much? I wish I had one handy, my 5gal buckets don't hold much and a big top off res would make it nice for me.
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Are you spraying right out the end of that PVC cap? Drilled some holes in it? I like the sprayer idea quite a bit. And seems to be working for ya lol
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You want inline pumps for res temp issues? The pumps heat up nutes a bit? I been kinda wary to do a chiller cause I thought they were kinda excess, I use southern ag and res temps are close to 80 f, how much effect does a cooler really have for growth? Are you just trying to keep algae, root rot ect out? Doesn't hydroguard do that? My ladies look ok, but not as crazy as I was hoping or expecting, would a chiller make a big difference?

JSheeze said:

Holy roots! Haha very nice!
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10gal/day? Thats crazy those roots are massive. I normally went through 1.25-1.5gal/day/lady but my roots weren't quite that developed. How much do your DWC site tubs hold? Are you saying 55gal res is to much? I wish I had one handy, my 5gal buckets don't hold much and a big top off res would make it nice for me.
.
Are you spraying right out the end of that PVC cap? Drilled some holes in it? I like the sprayer idea quite a bit. And seems to be working for ya lol
.
You want inline pumps for res temp issues? The pumps heat up nutes a bit? I been kinda wary to do a chiller cause I thought they were kinda excess, I use southern ag and res temps are close to 80 f, how much effect does a cooler really have for growth? Are you just trying to keep algae, root rot ect out? Doesn't hydroguard do that? My ladies look ok, but not as crazy as I was hoping or expecting, would a chiller make a big difference?

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Exactly right on the caps

The whole system holds around 90 gallons where I keep it. 12 17 gallon sites and the 55 gallon tote control res not including my top off barrel. I have that big control res and the top off barrel. I want to make the control res smaller since I do most of it into the top off barrel anyway. Probably move it down to a 27 gal tote. Those pumps are pretty big they do put off some heat, i can imagine my chiller would run slightly less if they werent in the water.

Go to my post in my signature and look at my veg setup. I have a 17 gallon tote that goes to a float valve that I use for a top off, you can make a system like that for around $20. You just need to keep it slightly above your float valve. I used that 17 gallon tote on my big system when they werent drinking much.

I ran mine high in the beginning and had root issues pretty quick so I turned it down and have run it 68-70 since then and been fine. Ill be running the veg buckets without one so we'll see how that goes.

JSheeze said:

I use 5gal bucket as a reservoir (only able to fill up to 3 gal due to net pots hanging down) between/for (2) 5gal DWC sites (3 buckets in a row, middle bucket is reservoir, 3 gal each) and now that they starting to get bigger, I'm having to top off daily.

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You could put another bucket top on your existing buckets. It should add about 1-1.5 gallons. Like This it basically lifts up your netpots and allows you to add more water and space for roots.

fragileassassin said:

Exactly right on the caps

The whole system holds around 90 gallons where I keep it. 12 17 gallon sites and the 55 gallon tote control res not including my top off barrel. I have that big control res and the top off barrel. I want to make the control res smaller since I do most of it into the top off barrel anyway. Probably move it down to a 27 gal tote. Those pumps are pretty big they do put off some heat, i can imagine my chiller would run slightly less if they werent in the water.

Go to my post in my signature and look at my veg setup. I have a 17 gallon tote that goes to a float valve that I use for a top off, you can make a system like that for around $20. You just need to keep it slightly above your float valve. I used that 17 gallon tote on my big system when they werent drinking much.

I ran mine high in the beginning and had root issues pretty quick so I turned it down and have run it 68-70 since then and been fine. Ill be running the veg buckets without one so we'll see how that goes.

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Idk what signature means lol I tried clicking on your avatar but you're top-secret haha I've been needing to build a top off res and I'm guna give your design a try thanks for the ideas mane

Big Perm said:

You could put another bucket top on your existing buckets. It should add about 1-1.5 gallons. Like This it basically lifts up your netpots and allows you to add more water and space for roots.

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Lol that smartass that suggested a 6gal bucket hahaha but anyways I like it, I got some extra buckets that I fubar-ed that will make nice extensions, thanks, good idea. lol some if these emoji's got me laughing..

Oh I didnt notice lol.. I guess it doesnt show them on mobile? Signatures show at the bottom of peoples posts.

Here's my grow journal I'm doing for my next crop.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/fragiles-flowers-rnd-2-new-veg-room-rdwc-from-first-clones.980253/

Just got done with a grow and so tempted too do a post grow journal.

fragileassassin said:

Exactly right on the caps

The whole system holds around 90 gallons where I keep it. 12 17 gallon sites and the 55 gallon tote control res not including my top off barrel. I have that big control res and the top off barrel. I want to make the control res smaller since I do most of it into the top off barrel anyway. Probably move it down to a 27 gal tote. Those pumps are pretty big they do put off some heat, i can imagine my chiller would run slightly less if they werent in the water.

Go to my post in my signature and look at my veg setup. I have a 17 gallon tote that goes to a float valve that I use for a top off, you can make a system like that for around $20. You just need to keep it slightly above your float valve. I used that 17 gallon tote on my big system when they werent drinking much.

I ran mine high in the beginning and had root issues pretty quick so I turned it down and have run it 68-70 since then and been fine. Ill be running the veg buckets without one so we'll see how that goes.

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You’re going to have temp issues with the pumps in the system and no chiller. I couldn’t get my pumps to be inline so I threw them in the tubs. Way less room for failure but it does make my chiller work a little harder. I look at it like a couple extra bucks a month to not have to worry about leaks or temps.

TIMtoKILL said:

Just got done with a grow and so tempted too do a post grow journal.



You’re going to have temp issues with the pumps in the system and no chiller. I couldn’t get my pumps to be inline so I threw them in the tubs. Way less room for failure but it does make my chiller work a little harder. I look at it like a couple extra bucks a month to not have to worry about leaks or temps.

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On the veg system the pump is in line. It was by far the most pain in the ass part of it to figure out as the threads on the output of my pumps are weird and i had a hard time finding an adapter that threaded on to it right. The pictures I posted are my flower system that has a 1/4HP chiller/

A lot of different ways how to use a bucket system thats for sure, I've been around/using them for probably 25 years, big vegetable grows where there was lots of testing , science, studies being done etc, and from that ,we developed a bucket system that worked for us, Here is my opinions on it which at some point were all put to theory and tested as best growing practices for this system .

No need to use anything bigger them a 5 gallon bucked because you can't out grow it, we tried , we grow plants so big it was silly i'll leave it at that, don't flood your buckets, get the water out and inch or 2 in the bottom is all you need, I could write a book why,but I'm not right now , the ideal setup is to have to top feed lines, keep them off the stem, and a nice soft water flow down through the roots, a good size air stone in the bucket, always putting fresh air in, easier for your roots to use then trying to get oxygen gas out of water,it will also mist a bit but most importantly its the humidity you can create. this alone will out grow a flooded bucket, if you want to go to the next step add a couple very fine misters as close to a fog as you can get, the key to whole thing is proper environment, the soft trickle of water over the roots, the very fine mist, fresh oxygen and proper humidity in the bucket, its like adding steroids,

weekly rez changes, it keeps the solution balanced, prevents build ups of ph up/down etc in the solution, the plants love a drink of fresh water every week, it gives them a chance to flush/ expel any old stuff or use it up, get a drink of fresh water and them fresh nutrients to follow, top ups are fine but no longer then 7 days, example a 100 gallon rez 12 - 5 gallon bucket system, we top once maybe twice during the week, fresh water day 6 or 7 for at least 12 hours change with fresh nutrients. These 12 plants will take 25 to 30 gallons every night once there in flowering. on a 4 or 6 bucket system we don't top up just rez change every 6 or 7 days. we done real world testing side by side rooms and the one with weekly rez changes wins every time.

bucket system are easy to run and many variations of it, it really just depends on your knowledge, how much time and work you want to put into it, for what you want out of it. the key with any system is feed, lighting, temperatures and humidity. me personally I'd put a bucket system up against anyone with any other system any day of the week.

southernguy99 said:

the ideal setup is to have to top feed lines, keep them off the stem, and a nice soft water flow down through the roots

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Do you run this 24/7, or on a timer. I can easily convert my system to an inch or two in the buckets.