twostrokenut
Well-Known Member
And the amount of Federal Reserve Notes outstanding is around $1 trillion. What don't you understand?
Support that.
And the amount of Federal Reserve Notes outstanding is around $1 trillion. What don't you understand?
The case was about the effect of the redemption provision. Tendering Federal Reserve Notes for Federal Reserve Notes was sufficient--that's the point. You don't need to add any details or conclusions.
tokeperp said:Where does the case reflect that when "the demand was made...the Fed complied"?
tokeprep said:I don't see why endorsement matters at all. It doesn't change anything the case says; it doesn't transform the case into supporting anything you're advocating.
tokeprep said:So what? In the time of stability you're advocating, the government pulled all kinds of shit.
tokeprep said:And if you aren't going to believe the numbers, there's nothing that can be done about that. You have no evidence supporting your suspicions except those suspicions.
Why ask me when you are already answering it yourself???
So if the bonds the Treasury traded the Fed for FRN's represent future tax payments, future production, current real assets.....you fail to see that bonding your check is the same thing? Bonding and exchanging for FRN's? Bonding by endorsing the use of elastic currency? You fail to see the connection to the FDR http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8748/governmentbondsvoluntar.jpg
letter where he explains he wants to get people to put their checks in these "new accounts"??
Is it mere coincidence that this new elastic currency has funded every subsequent unconstitutional war???
What links have you provided with any numbers sir? I provided you with treasury direct. Here is April 30, 2013.....http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2013/opdm042013.pdf
Page 16 says what is not subject to the debt ceiling, that which cannot be held for reserves and fractionally lent......Page 1 table 2 shows total public debt outstanding less what cannot be added to the debt stands at :
14.293975 trillion
Statutory debt limit on that page is:
14.294 trillion as per 31 U.S.C. 3101(b). By Act of February 12, 2010, Public Law 111-139
Because you're doing things like that to avoid my reasonable questions?
It has nothing to do with the legal argument you're trying to make. It's a total aside.
So your saying out of 14.3 total public debt outstanding only 1 trillion is Fed Notes??? Do you mean only in physical form?
You've been talking this whole time about physical Federal Reserve Notes, so obviously I mean in physical form. The statutes about physical notes apply to physical notes, not anything else. The debt is treasury securities the government owes, not currency.
What is a total aside, your inability to distinguish inelastic lawful money between elastic Federal Reserve Notes?
Defendant argues that the Federal Reserve Notes in which he was paid were not lawful money within the meaning of Art. 1, § 8, United States Constitution. We have held to the contrary. United States v. Ware, 10 Cir., 608 F.2d 400, 402-403. We find no validity in the distinction which defendant draws between "lawful money" and "legal tender." Money is a medium of exchange. Legal tender is money which the law requires a creditor to receive in payment of an obligation. The aggregate of the powers granted to Congress by the Constitution includes broad and comprehensive authority over revenue, finance, and currency. Norman v. B. & O. R. Co., 294 U.S. 240, 55 S.Ct. 407, 79 L.Ed. 885. In the exercise of that power Congress has declared that Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender and are redeemable in lawful money. Defendant received Federal Reserve Notes when he cashed his pay checks and used those notes to pay his personal expenses. He obtained and used lawful money.
I have been talking this whole time about Federal Reserve Notes in general, weather they exist in a checkbook, computer or physically. Defining them for you, showing you how they are produced from debt, carry interest, pointing out they are private credit......sourcing every statement I make.........most recently showing you how they are different from US notes that still circulate today as evidenced on the mspd every month.......
Perhaps your serving in Legislature is indicative of the fucked up situation we find ourselves in today that you claim is nonexistent.....I am very happy to be invested in a hedge fund against your complete ignorance of money, what it is and how it is defined. Funny how that works the more you screw up making your false assertions as all Keynesian before you the less your elastic money is worth....stretched until it breaks....never forget Austrians predicted this whole shebang.......Your continued assertions that Lawyers in black robes have the power to do anything but uphold congressional law are completely absurd. If you do not know what endorsement means I encourage you to visit your local Federal Repository and maybe look it up someday.
Because you're doing things like that to avoid my reasonable questions?
It has nothing to do with the legal argument you're trying to make. It's a total aside.
So your saying out of 14.3 total public debt outstanding only 1 trillion is Fed Notes??? Do you mean only in physical form?
If a Federal Reserve Note was money, then why call it a note? Any dumb-ass can tell you that a note is a PROMISE to PAY. Pay what? More promises.
It really doesn't get any simpler people. It says it is a NOTE on every single one of them. What is so hard to understand?
The VAST majority of US Currency exists in digital format on a hard drive somewhere. Actual US Currency constitutes less than 2% of US Dollars in the system.
I find it funny that every time Tokenprepforbankruptcy gets proven wrong he changes his tune to a completely different argument and then says you just weren't understanding him the first time. Its pretty much every other post.
Maybe change his name to Tokendance.
The drugs cartels in South America hold more than $1 trillion in Federal Reserve notes...
You havnt a clue what you're talking about bro.
How are you getting 2%?
No one's proven me wrong about anything, and I've never changed to "a completely different argument" on anything. Where did you see otherwise? I've been here meeting every claim.
Indeed, there were at least four of you here spouting the Austrian talking points, and none of you could refute what I said about currency creation without debt. I think it's clear who was proven wrong.
There's $1.15 trillion in Federal Reserve Notes in the entire world right now. Please tell me where your assertion comes from so I can explain to you why you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Why should he explain how he got that you still haven't explained the trillion outstanding??? Double standard.
I explained it, and you confirmed my explanation.
It's undoubtedly money. I pay for everything I buy with it. Everyone here, no matter how much silver or gold they have, pays for everything with it. So saying it's not "money" because the word "note" is on the paper doesn't make much sense. If I can trade it for housing, food, and anything else I want, it's money. Period.
I'm sorry, I didn't see your other post. http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm.
Over 1 trillion of those have been spent for Nixion's war on drugs. You are an idiot.
You pay for nothing in allodium with them, you simply discharge debt with them.
If a prostitute trades sex for food and shelter is that money?
That is approximately worthless data, sort of insulting.
It's undoubtedly money. I pay for everything I buy with it. Everyone here, no matter how much silver or gold they have, pays for everything with it. So saying it's not "money" because the word "note" is on the paper doesn't make much sense. If I can trade it for housing, food, and anything else I want, it's money. Period.
How are you getting 2%?
No one's proven me wrong about anything, and I've never changed to "a completely different argument" on anything. Where did you see otherwise? I've been here meeting every claim.
Indeed, there were at least four of you here spouting the Austrian talking points, and none of you could refute what I said about currency creation without debt. I think it's clear who was proven wrong.
Try telling someone in China that they must sell you something for your FR Note. Go ahead and tell me how its money again. Must be like a sickness with you to FAIL so hard and so often. If it were money it would have value anywhere in the world. The fact that the Dollar is not universally accepted by nearly everyone everywhere as money proves you 100% WRONG!! WRONG!! Get it? You are WRONG!!! Don't try to change your argument after realizing how WRONG you are.
m0/m2 NOt real hard to figure it out, you should try math and Google sometime, they will definitely help your internet experience.
Every dollar in the system has a certain amount of interest attached to it, we already proved this earlier, you saying we didn't does not invalidate that fact. Playing that game makes you look even more desperate, stop trying.
Yes it does. go along and play now little boy.If you're using your own definition of "money." The fact that British money is accepted in Great Britain and that Chinese money is accepted in China doesn't mean that they aren't money because they aren't accepted in the United States.