i’ll not buy another led until..

PadawanWarrior said:

Buy decks, amps, ect with a low THD like I do. Problem solved, .

If I hook my amps up to cheap speakers, hell ya it's sound distorted. That is until the speakers blow,

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Remove headroom issues all along your signal path.

My speakers are good for 3000w before they start breaking up (going linear, exceeding Xmax), but have a really short distance between x-max and xmech (the point where your drivers start tearing themselves apart), but can sustain transients above that if needed. I often found that breakup was coming at the power stage and/or at a few of the preamp stages, so having a power amp that won't hit the voltage rails quickly or easily was a need for me, as well as good proper gain staging & matching (I have about 5 preamp stages in my signal chain). So my speakers are a 3-way setup (sub/woofer/mid-to-high) that's fairly close to line-array engineering, then my power amp is a custom made one that is 2500w rms and closer to 3500w peak and has an over-spec power supply that could carry three of the amp units. From there, again, it's all gain staging to maintain tone but also have clarity.

As a result, I have a setup that can be extremely loud but also clean and clear at volume...basically a PA but for a single instrument.

crimsonecho said:

and those are co2 pro version. so thats as premium as it gets i think. but still runs hot i think and thats not cool imo.

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crimsonecho said:

and those are co2 pro version. so thats as premium as it gets i think. but still runs hot i think and thats not cool imo.

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They are, and while you dont get bulb heat like with a HPS/CMH/MH but 1000watts id 1000 watts, no way getting around the conversion of power and the heat it creates.

I will say heat sinks on the ballast are proper

This is the heat sink for my Spectrum King SK600. The light still gets crazy hot.

Samwell Seed Well said:

They are, and while you dont get bulb heat like with a HPS/CMH/MH but 1000watts id 1000 watts, no way getting around the conversion of power and the heat it creates.

I will say heat sinks on the ballast are proper

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yeah i agree a 1000w is 1000w it doesnt produce ir and that a plus over hid when it comes to emitted heat but definitely a shit ton of heat that needs to be dissipated still. thermal management could be improved in so many ways.

not just bigger heatsinks maybe but better designed heatsinks definitely, less dense smd placements, less current running through them, bigger pcbs and higher diode counts. there should be a happy middle ground where all this solutions can be applied simultaneously without increasing the cost significantly. basically these companies should also share the economic burden brought on by these design changes imo. at worst 50/50 with the consumer.

lusidghost said:

This is the heat sink for my Spectrum King SK600. The light still gets crazy hot.
View attachment 5139483

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is that copper? is it water cooled or something

can i see the otherside of the fixture how dense is the smd placement?

crimsonecho said:

is that copper? is it water cooled or something

can i see the otherside of the fixture how dense is the smd placement?

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It's copper. The LEDs are jammed into a square that's around a foot. It's a 6 year old model.

lusidghost said:

This is the heat sink for my Spectrum King SK600. The light still gets crazy hot.
View attachment 5139483

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Cool, but also shows how amazing the development and progression of light design has been in the last decade.

crimsonecho said:

yeah i agree a 1000w is 1000w it doesnt produce ir and that a plus over hid when it comes to emitted heat but definitely a shit ton of heat that needs to be dissipated still. thermal management could be improved in so many ways.

not just bigger heatsinks maybe but better designed heatsinks definitely, less dense smd placements, less current running through them, bigger pcbs and higher diode counts. there should be a happy middle ground where all this solutions can be applied simultaneously without increasing the cost significantly. basically these companies should also share the economic burden brought on by these design changes imo. at worst 50/50 with the consumer.

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I feel like this will be the next phase of LEDs. They have pretty much maxed out on watts and par footprint. Aside from becoming more efficient, all they really can do now is make them lighter, cooler and cheaper.

lusidghost said:

It's copper. The LEDs are jammed into a square that's around a foot. It's a 6 year old model.
View attachment 5139488

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oh yeah thats fucking dense but the thing is not much denser than any mars hydro bar light i think. fce6500 has about 600 on each bar. so a shit ton of diodes still.

and good for them on the copper aspect, thats better than aluminium but i guess that would really increase the price of a 4x4 fixture like you see out there nowadays.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

Cool, but also shows how amazing the development and progression of light design has been in the last decade.

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did it really change that much though? still 600 diodes on each mars hydro fce6500 bar crammed in there with much worse heatsinks. not copper has way less fins and surface area etc etc. i think the plug and play design at its current state hasnt made an inch of progress over the years. thats my opinion of course.

crimsonecho said:

did it really change that much though? still 600 diodes on each mars hydro fce6500 bar crammed in there with much worse heatsinks. not copper has way less fins and surface area etc etc. i think the plug and play design at its current state hasnt made an inch of progress over the years. thats my opinion of course.

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The footprint is horrible. There's a huge hotspot and then if fades quickly as you move toward the edges. So in that aspect they have definitely upgraded in the past few years. Also the light is thick as hell. My HLG is paper thin in comparison and sitting about 6" higher, giving me way more headspace.

crimsonecho said:

did it really change that much though? still 600 diodes on each mars hydro fce6500 bar crammed in there with much worse heatsinks. not copper has way less fins and surface area etc etc. i think the plug and play design at its current state hasnt made an inch of progress over the years. thats my opinion of course.

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Yes. You're comparing what was an expensive light to an import budget light because you're focused on Mars Hydro (which is also Spider Farmer).

lusidghost said:

The footprint is horrible. There's a huge hotspot and then if fades quickly as you move toward the edges. So in that aspect they have definitely upgraded in the past few years. Also the light is thick as hell. My HLG is paper thin in comparison and sitting about 6" higher, giving me way more headspace.

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Exactly. Look at the ~600w HLG's they have better dispersion and don't need a whole ton of copper and water cooling. And at less cost.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

Yes. You're comparing what was an expensive light to an import budget light because you're focused on Mars Hydro (which is also Spider Farmer).

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This is true. The SK600 was the first true watt LED that could compete with HID. It was super expensive when it came out. There weren't even cheap Chinese lights then, only blurples.

...or this timber. Even higher wattage, for $1K, decent dispersion and the sinking is reasonably limited.

lusidghost said:

The footprint is horrible. There's a huge hotspot and then if fades quickly as you move toward the edges. So in that aspect they have definitely upgraded in the past few years. Also the light is thick as hell. My HLG is paper thin in comparison and sitting about 6" higher, giving me way more headspace.

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yeah distribution is improved definitely. cant argue with that but thermal management hasnt progressed one bit.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

Yes. You're comparing what was an expensive light to an import budget light because you're focused on Mars Hydro (which is also Spider Farmer).

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any light really not focused on mars or sf solely medic grow i think is not that different i think none of these bar lights are that much different to be honest. terrible terrible thermal management. is it wrong to demand better engineering from a company? if these low end companies can up their game a bit high end will get more high end too and competitive prices will still be there because price point is always important for companies.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

Exactly. Look at the ~600w HLG's they have better dispersion and don't need a whole ton of copper and water cooling. And at less cost.

HLG 600 Rspec®

High Efficiency Commercial Indoor Horticulture LED grow light designed to replace a 1000watt HID with just 490 Watts. 1522 PPF @ 2.55 PPF/W. Full-spectrum. Reliable passive-cooled design. Powered by Samsung LM301H LED and Deep Red LED 660nm

horticulturelightinggroup.com

HLG Scorpion® Diablo

This is the most efficient full spectrum Horticulture lamp with an efficiency of 3.0 µmol/J and over 2100 PPF output. HLG Scorpion® Diablo™ commercial lamps are designed for growers that demand both high intensity and high efficiency to maximize crop yields.

horticulturelightinggroup.com

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how hot does it run? what are the diode and heatsink temps? i’ve never used them.

crimsonecho said:

yeah distribution is improved definitely. cant argue with that but thermal management has progressed one bit.



any light really not focused on mars or sf solely medic grow i think is not that different i think none of these bar lights are that much different to be honest. terrible terrible thermal management. is it wrong to demand better engineering from a company? if these low end companies can up their game a bit high end will get more high end too and competitive prices will still be there because price point is always important for companies.

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You can demand it...but you'll have to pay for it. When you want more and better you end up paying for more and better.

I'm guessing that there are plenty of people who think the budget stuff is good enough and that's that.

crimsonecho said:

yeah distribution is improved definitely. cant argue with that but thermal management has progressed one bit.



any light really not focused on mars or sf solely medic grow i think is not that different i think none of these bar lights are that much different to be honest. terrible terrible thermal management. is it wrong to demand better engineering from a company? if these low end companies can up their game a bit high end will get more high end too and competitive prices will still be there because price point is always important for companies.

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I think this is because it was a power race up until recently. Pumping out a ton of light was top priority and everything else was given the "we'll get around to that" mentality.