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DLoomis514:

You have a very valid point. It has been proven by some very well-respected members of RIU that DIY panels can produce some very good results, and the nimbleness with which one can adapt to new trends is something a manufacturer, especially a large one, will always be at a disadvantage against. For those without the desire to undertake a DIY project, there are other prebuilt solutions.

az2000, not a problem. Thank you.

Best Regards
Dan
 

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
DLoomis514:

You have a very valid point. It has been proven by some very well-respected members of RIU that DIY panels can produce some very good results, and the nimbleness with which one can adapt to new trends is something a manufacturer, especially a large one, will always be at a disadvantage against. For those without the desire to undertake a DIY project, there are other prebuilt solutions.

az2000, not a problem. Thank you.

Best Regards
Dan
Hi Dan.With respect, I have a genuine question for you. And I hope it will be a chance for you to share some of your USPs if there are any.. Why am I better off spending over USD$1800 for 2 x 100W Osram branded panels than I am paying GBP£800 for these 2 x 140W panels containing Osram Oslon SSL 80 leds?
http://www.plantphotonics.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=33

And that's not to mention any other manufacturer using high end Osram or competitors' diodes and selling their wares for a great deal less on a Watt for Watt basis, all of whom offer tried and tested panels and anything from full 2 or 3 year warranties to limited lifetime warranties and some of whom are known to have decent customer care to boot.

(How about 2 of these for a total USD$765? http://bonsaihero.com/index.php/led-growlight-150-watt)

Why Osram? What's the value for me, a small-time hobbyist?
 
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obviously

Well-Known Member
I don't wanna be anoying cause I ask the same thing in different threads , but I AM VERY confused. I don;t have money to spend twice on LED , that's why I wanna make a good decision and hear different opinions. I want to grow (1st) 6 autos and I am undecided cause I heard si many different opinions. I already got an offer from marshydro for a 300w reflector switchable , that put out around 170W. But the panel have only 2 deep red. Price around 120 pounds. Hans panel 150W is 250 pounds. 3CXA3070 with driver and everything I need around 200 pounds. Whici one do you think is the best choice ? Do you think the CXA series is far the best choice ? better penetration ? Do you think the hans panel worth the double price of marshydro ?
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I don't wanna be anoying cause I ask the same thing in different threads , but I AM VERY confused. I don;t have money to spend twice on LED , that's why I wanna make a good decision and hear different opinions. I want to grow (1st) 6 autos and I am undecided cause I heard si many different opinions. I already got an offer from marshydro for a 300w reflector switchable , that put out around 170W. But the panel have only 2 deep red. Price around 120 pounds. Hans panel 150W is 250 pounds. 3CXA3070 with driver and everything I need around 200 pounds. Whici one do you think is the best choice ? Do you think the CXA series is far the best choice ? better penetration ? Do you think the hans panel worth the double price of marshydro ?
Before we go into comparing, do you really think that is enough light? 150w is pretty weak for 6 plants.
 
Hi Dan.With respect, I have a genuine question for you. And I hope it will be a chance for you to share some of your USPs if there are any.. Why am I better off spending over USD$1800 for 2 x 100W Osram branded panels than I am paying GBP£800 for these 2 x 140W panels containing Osram Oslon SSL 80 leds?
http://www.plantphotonics.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=33

And that's not to mention any other manufacturer using high end Osram or competitors' diodes and selling their wares for a great deal less on a Watt for Watt basis, all of whom offer tried and tested panels and anything from full 2 or 3 year warranties to limited lifetime warranties and some of whom are known to have decent customer care to boot.

(How about 2 of these for a total USD$765? http://bonsaihero.com/index.php/led-growlight-150-watt)

Why Osram? What's the value for me, a small-time hobbyist?
Hello Heavy Consumer:

Thanks for the reply - those are good questions. Given the # of actual LEDs used and the coverage area, a better comparison to the Plant Photonics 280 watt module (156 Osram OSL SSL80 LEDs) would be the Zelion HL 3x2 (http://www.dlplampsource.com/zelion-hl-3x2.html). This unit is rated at 150 watts (126 Osram Oslon SSL80 LEDs) and has a coverage area of 36x24". It is a better priced solution than purchasing (2) of the 2x2 units. The 3x2 is priced at $1389. A (very) rough conversion of 799 GBP to USD for the plant Photonics module puts it at around $1200 USD.

Speaking to the Zelion HL 3x2 fixture, it is IP65 rated and passively cooled (no fans). To the individual hobbyist this may not be that important, however it is a testament to the build quality and less moving parts means less hassle with fan bearings wearing out or failing. Also the official UL certification and IP65 rating are very important distinctions for commercial installations in order to pass building codes for use in a damp environment. The Zelion HL fixtures optics were custom developed for even PAR coverage over the entire growing area - the center point measurement of 1100+ micromol/m2s2 is guaranteed to be no less than 1/5 that in the corners (the furthest point from the center). This even distribution ensures the maximum amount of energy is being placed in the entire area without hot/cold spots. Wattage is important in measuring the power consumption of these units (determining overall efficiency of the unit as well as to determine how hard the LEDs are being driven), however to get a good understanding of comparing the "light power output" of one LED fixture to another is the measurement of PAR, and how even and strong that measurement is over the coverage area advertised. In the case of the Zelion, the LEDs are driven at roughly 40% power, which is low. This is done to make the units more efficient in order to save on energy costs and increase the longevity of the diodes, indeed why the Zelion carries a lifetime rating of 100,000 hours at L70. Of note, the L70 means the LEDs are putting out 70% of the original power (this is an industry standard).

Being involved in the development of this fixture, I can attest to the incredible amount of engineering that has gone into the development of the fixture. It is exceptionally engineered (as one would expect from Osram, and given the fixtures pricepoints) from the custom power supplies, to the custom optics to the hand assembled final product - we have studied all of the fixtures on the market and the build quality of the Zelion is unparalleled. I understand that to some this may not be a selling point for some customers - and perhaps it is not - but it does speak to the quality of material and level of craftsmanship. Don't get me wrong - we aren't talking about fancy exotic sports cars here - I understand that it is still a light fixture. The Zelion is a premium priced product - of that there is no question. It is more expensive than the others. It also performs better - more PAR/watt - than many other grow lights and is designed to do so for a longer period of time, using less power and with less opportunity for failure (again, no moving parts). It's also silent and puts out little/no radiant heat - an issue with other passively cooled fixtures, since these are designed to operate close to the canopy.

These are available in four different "sizes" or coverage areas (1x1, 2x1, 2x2 and 3x2'). In some cases of smaller, hobbyist size configurations, a combination of HPS and/or MH and LED has been proven to be good, as is the simple addition of white LEDs in the form of PAR reflector LED bulbs or larger white LED DIY-type configurations. In addition to operating independently, they make a good complementary light to your existing setup. For those new to LED grow lights and wanting to experiment, or are simply on the fence, the less expensive smaller units offer an opportunity to enter the LED market at a more price conscious level without having to settle for a low quality LED grow light.

I hope this helps - if I can contribute any additional information I am happy to do so. Thanks again for the opportunity.

Regards
Dan
 

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
Hello Heavy Consumer:

Thanks for the reply - those are good questions. Given the # of actual LEDs used and the coverage area, a better comparison to the Plant Photonics 280 watt module (156 Osram OSL SSL80 LEDs) would be the Zelion HL 3x2 (http://www.dlplampsource.com/zelion-hl-3x2.html). This unit is rated at 150 watts (126 Osram Oslon SSL80 LEDs) and has a coverage area of 36x24". It is a better priced solution than purchasing (2) of the 2x2 units. The 3x2 is priced at $1389. A (very) rough conversion of 799 GBP to USD for the plant Photonics module puts it at around $1200 USD.

Speaking to the Zelion HL 3x2 fixture, it is IP65 rated and passively cooled (no fans). To the individual hobbyist this may not be that important, however it is a testament to the build quality and less moving parts means less hassle with fan bearings wearing out or failing. Also the official UL certification and IP65 rating are very important distinctions for commercial installations in order to pass building codes for use in a damp environment. The Zelion HL fixtures optics were custom developed for even PAR coverage over the entire growing area - the center point measurement of 1100+ micromol/m2s2 is guaranteed to be no less than 1/5 that in the corners (the furthest point from the center). This even distribution ensures the maximum amount of energy is being placed in the entire area without hot/cold spots. Wattage is important in measuring the power consumption of these units (determining overall efficiency of the unit as well as to determine how hard the LEDs are being driven), however to get a good understanding of comparing the "light power output" of one LED fixture to another is the measurement of PAR, and how even and strong that measurement is over the coverage area advertised. In the case of the Zelion, the LEDs are driven at roughly 40% power, which is low. This is done to make the units more efficient in order to save on energy costs and increase the longevity of the diodes, indeed why the Zelion carries a lifetime rating of 100,000 hours at L70. Of note, the L70 means the LEDs are putting out 70% of the original power (this is an industry standard).

Being involved in the development of this fixture, I can attest to the incredible amount of engineering that has gone into the development of the fixture. It is exceptionally engineered (as one would expect from Osram, and given the fixtures pricepoints) from the custom power supplies, to the custom optics to the hand assembled final product - we have studied all of the fixtures on the market and the build quality of the Zelion is unparalleled. I understand that to some this may not be a selling point for some customers - and perhaps it is not - but it does speak to the quality of material and level of craftsmanship. Don't get me wrong - we aren't talking about fancy exotic sports cars here - I understand that it is still a light fixture. The Zelion is a premium priced product - of that there is no question. It is more expensive than the others. It also performs better - more PAR/watt - than many other grow lights and is designed to do so for a longer period of time, using less power and with less opportunity for failure (again, no moving parts). It's also silent and puts out little/no radiant heat - an issue with other passively cooled fixtures, since these are designed to operate close to the canopy.

These are available in four different "sizes" or coverage areas (1x1, 2x1, 2x2 and 3x2'). In some cases of smaller, hobbyist size configurations, a combination of HPS and/or MH and LED has been proven to be good, as is the simple addition of white LEDs in the form of PAR reflector LED bulbs or larger white LED DIY-type configurations. In addition to operating independently, they make a good complementary light to your existing setup. For those new to LED grow lights and wanting to experiment, or are simply on the fence, the less expensive smaller units offer an opportunity to enter the LED market at a more price conscious level without having to settle for a low quality LED grow light.

I hope this helps - if I can contribute any additional information I am happy to do so. Thanks again for the opportunity.

Regards
Dan

Yes, thank you for taking the time to answer so fully. I'm confused only by your price comparison with the plant photonics fixture (possibly my own fault for not explaining the product I linked to, but I'm not selling or recommending it, it was simply an example I chose due to its use of Osram hardware). The item I linked to, priced at £799, would have been 2 x 140W panels (totalling 280W power draw and 152 x 3W diodes). The 2 panels are sold as a single 280W fixture because they are connectable or as separate 140W panels for a single unit price of £399. So actually the Zelion is at a much higher price point.

While I take on board your very relevant point re: passive cooling (a general rule I've always believed in when purchasing any tech is that the less moving parts, the less can go wrong - I never did get the American love affair with flip cell-phones for example), I'm still not convinced that in the long term, the Zelion works out a cost-efficient stand alone light for a user with my profile (looking to buy 1 or 2 fixtures for a personal grow room setup).

To your final point, one of the first thoughts I had upon seeing the Zelion, was that its size and spectrum options, might make it an excellent supplemental light for CMH lighting (which I'm also considering due to cost-efficiency), but again, I think for someone like myself, the price point is highly prohibitive for this application, with plenty of other small, flexible and quite inexpensive options out there, such as the Plant Photonics' smaller panels, small Area 51 panels and Kessel lights with their quite targeted spectra for veg'/bloom (I'm sure there are many others too, these just sprang to mind).

For me personally, I feel there is better value for my money looking at other brands using quite comparable tech'. And while passive cooling may appeal more to those continuing with HID in the same space or for high volume commercial applications, with other high efficiency LED lights, heat does not seem to be causing growers any major headaches.

Thanks again for all the info'. I do not doubt the quality of the Zelion's engineering. I do however question entering such a competitive market with the given pricing. Having said that, who knows? Perhaps Osram's Zelion is the Apache Tech of 2015! That must be what Osram is hoping!

Is there any interest in providing fixtures for experienced growers to test and demonstrate? At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding!

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm inexperienced and would not make a capable tester! I was thinking of others.
 
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obviously

Well-Known Member
Before we go into comparing, do you really think that is enough light? 150w is pretty weak for 6 plants.
Somebody told me that for autos , is not that important w/plant , but I think I'm gonna grow only 4 in a 60x60 cm tent :) But I don't know which of this lights is better and worth the price. That's why I need your help guys :)
 

ellydee

Well-Known Member
Somebody told me that for autos , is not that important w/plant , but I think I'm gonna grow only 4 in a 60x60 cm tent :) But I don't know which of this lights is better and worth the price. That's why I need your help guys :)
Some autos get big.
4 autos in a 60x60cm (2 ft x 2 ft.) might be too much as well.
2 HANS 65 watters , 2 HANS 80 watters, 1 HANS 150 or 1 Area51 RW150 would be plenty in that size tent.
If you are limited in height, go with the HANS.
http://www.bonsaihero.com/
 

obviously

Well-Known Member
Some autos get big.
4 autos in a 60x60cm (2 ft x 2 ft.) might be too much as well.
2 HANS 65 watters , 2 HANS 80 watters, 1 HANS 150 or 1 Area51 RW150 would be plenty in that size tent.
If you are limited in height, go with the HANS.
http://www.bonsaihero.com/
I live in UK and I think area51 charge me too much for shippment. I didn't know which is the best value for money cause I don;t have alot of money and I don;t wanna waste money. marshydro have very good prices , but Hans quallity panels. Does Hans pannel get the same results as cxa series ? Is hans pannel much better than marshydro to worth more than double price ? ( 150W ) .
 

ellydee

Well-Known Member
The HANS are much more efficient at turning electricity into light as opposed to heat. The MARS, not so much.

DIY would do better than the HANS.

If you want to go the COB route, why not 4,5 or 6 Bridgelux Vero 18 ( a lot less money than the CREE)
Dimming driver;
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2189290_-1

They would be about 31 watts per cob max, but you can dim them down a little.

The biggest expense will be heat sinks though. Still cheaper than ready made lamps
 

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
I live in UK and I think area51 charge me too much for shippment. I didn't know which is the best value for money cause I don;t have alot of money and I don;t wanna waste money. marshydro have very good prices , but Hans quallity panels. Does Hans pannel get the same results as cxa series ? Is hans pannel much better than marshydro to worth more than double price ? ( 150W ) .
A grow journal you might find interesting.... LED, auto, small space etc. http://rollitup.org/t/plant-photonics-amethyst-ds-90-led-black-jack-automatic-grow-20-l-airpot.824647/
 

obviously

Well-Known Member
Mars is free shipping , Hans panel 20 euros. What kind of LED is that one from that grow journal ?
ellydee , I just checked Vero18 and compare with CXA3070. It's the same price , cause I need more fans and 3 drivers for CXA3070 are less expensive that one dimmable for 6 vero's. But it;s still an intersting ideea.
 

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
Mars is free shipping , Hans panel 20 euros. What kind of LED is that one from that grow journal ?
ellydee , I just checked Vero18 and compare with CXA3070. It's the same price , cause I need more fans and 3 drivers for CXA3070 are less expensive that one dimmable for 6 vero's. But it;s still an intersting ideea.
I believe it is this one: http://www.plantphotonics.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=30I I don't know much about the company but I reckon their lights look interesting and quite competitively priced. I'd like to find out more about their build quality and performance.

Shipping to the UK is 30 squids for that model by the way.
 

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
Honey Bananas, Strawberry Banana,Purple og 18,TruBerry,Gummy Bears Under KIND K5 XL 750! 10-14 days till the fun begins. Wish I would have bought the 1000 but there will be one on the other side soon. Puttin together another 5 x 10 with BML spydr 1000 soon too! Go SeaHawks! Wish I was there!
 

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