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ttystikk

ttystikk

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Positivity said:
Something like this for starters...except with the newer cobs. Could probably get by with cpu coolers and a suitable frame for them.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-led-tower.830132/#post-10531674

Waterproof? Keep everything concealed in the middle with optics over the cobs
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I've seen the hexagonal LED framed unit before, both sitting in the volksgarden and vertical.

The smaller the frame, the more distance between light source and plant surface. I'm thinking I'd want lenses over the diodes that spread the light pattern widely. Is this option available?
 
Positivity

Positivity

Well-Known Member
They have a ideal wide angle built into the design...110 or 120 degree.

Optics could offer some waterproofing but will probably limit how hard you can run them. The last hard run cob with a optic melted down. I havent looked much into lenses but a quick ebay or alibaba search should turn a few up. Last i looked there were from 60 to 120 degree available. No one's really running optics here that I've seen

You dont want these big cobs too close to the plants either. I personally try and keep at least 2' distance.

Coming from a thouie you'd probably want to run a cree 3070 or vero 29 between 50w and 80w each. Trend is harder running vero 29

Just my 2c...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I guess I need a glossary. You've mentioned three types, and I'm familiar with none of them.

The types bright enough to run without optics sound promising. I need bright omnidirectional light.
 
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getsoutalive

Well-Known Member
I do not believe that it is cost effective at this time to replace HID with LED in a vert cylinder. One of the major pluses of LED is the directional light. Over a flat canopy, no reason for a 360 bulb. But very different in a vert. You would have to build a multi sided fixture with serious air moving through the center. Dont think it makes sense yet.
 
S

Sussy

Member
My first post. Been looking into lights on here for awhile and Im going with the Mars Hydro. Need some advice on panels and achieving a high yield. I don't want anything that will draw to much power until I can get solar panels.

Im thinking of going for the 300w reflector or the other 300w led panel as they have around 180w actual consumption. Anyone tried these panels? How much would be an average amount of bud from these?

I was going to order white widow seeds but for now Im going with some local clones (don't know the strain yet). I see a lot of growers have multiple plants under lights, does this increase yield? Would I be able to get bigger plants from using 1 or 2 and have around the same yield as having say 8 plants under 1 led light?

I'll start up a newbie journal when I have everything sorted out (hopefully soon)

Thanks, Sussy.

300w.jpg reflector 300w.jpg
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
getsoutalive said:
I do not believe that it is cost effective at this time to replace HID with LED in a vert cylinder. One of the major pluses of LED is the directional light. Over a flat canopy, no reason for a 360 bulb. But very different in a vert. You would have to build a multi sided fixture with serious air moving through the center. Dont think it makes sense yet.
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I respectfully disagree. The hexagonal LED unit I saw inside the volksgarden was just as you describe.

I'm no stranger to dealing with hot objects in a vertical cylinder; if the LED lighting emits more heat than two thousand watt HPS lamps then the tech has a problem!

Cost effectiveness is relative. It may not be cost competitive to purchase on a lumen to lumen basis, but if it saves watts and grows plants better then it will quickly make up the difference.

I want powerful omnidirectional light, and I'm willing to create an array of LEDs to get it. Tell me more about COBs?
 
G

getsoutalive

Well-Known Member
If you are dead set on giving this a go, I would use a vertical version of what @SomeGuy recently finished his horizontal with. He used vinyl fence posts and mounted cobs on heatsinks that were sunk into the post. Air can be pushed into the bottom and/or sucked out the top of each post so that you wouldnt need a fan for each cob/sink combo. Normal recommendation is for about 50% of current HPS wattage when converting to LED. I think, since you are trying to shoehorn LEDs into a shape that actually benefits from the HPS design, you might need more than usual to get similar performance.

I would arrange 6 5+ft tall vinyl fence posts as if they were faces on that hexagonal cylinder above. Install at least 5 Vero 18 cob chips on each post with heatsink fins inside the posts. I would drive them with the fasttech 50w drivers. Might need to think about the heatsink a bit more. Not sure a CPU cooler is the right choice for inside a post like this. Something with a bit more spacing between the fins would be more effective as the air flowed from the bottom up.

So you would be looking at 30 cob chips, drivers and heatsinks. At around $50/ea, plus fans, connectors, fence posts, hangers, etc. That should get you into the ballpark.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Sussy said:
Im thinking of going for the 300w reflector or the other 300w led panel as they have around 180w actual consumption. Anyone tried these panels? How much would be an average amount of bud from these?
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What size space will you grow in? The reflector will give you more concentrated light, the "old model" with 3w chips on white backboard will give you more coverage, diffuse light.

TopLED/Mars use inefficient epi-whatever LEDs. They'll grow ok, but you'll need more light, more electricity, more cooling costs to produce the same amount as you would if you spent more on a more efficient light using Cree, Osram, Phillips LEDs. Sometimes people don't want to spend more on better lights until they find out if they can grow. In that case, if you're in a 3x3x7 tall space, you'd be better off with ceramic metal halide. More light for the money.

If you have your growing skills worked out, you can yield 0.7 to 1.0g per watt depending on the strain. If you invested in a better light like an Area 51 RW, you could do 0.9 to 1.2, basically paying for the extra cost of that light in the first grow.

There's a big learning curve for LED. You just have to define your requirements and choose the best light. If you're just starting and you're not willing to invest in the best light, you might want to wait. Use CMH until you're comfortable spending twice as much on a good LED. (You just have to ask yourself why you won't spend more on a better light, or why you won't use CMH until you are. As long as you understand why you're making the choice you make you should be ok. Just understand the Chinese imports are gen1 technology and g3 is starting to reach the market.).

Also, don't equate price with quality/efficiency. There are predatory brands out there which are basically rebranded Chinese imports sold at a huge markup. (HydroGrowLED, Lush, Blackdog, Growblu, Lighthouse Hydro Blackstar, Kind.).
 
H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
To anyone's knowledge here, are any reputable manufacturers getting close to marketing fixtures built with COB diodes yet? Is anything being forecast or rumoured to be in the works for the coming year?
 
S

Sussy

Member
az2000 said:
What size space will you grow in?
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It will be around 3x3x7, how many plants would be recommended for that space? What size CMH light would I need? I want to keep my electricity usage under 200watt/hour until I can get solar panels put in (Average Kw/H here is over 30 cents) after that I'll get a 600w+ system. Would it still be worth grabbing a small led panel that I could use for cloning or vegging in a smaller space?
 
H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
Sussy said:
It will be around 3x3x7, how many plants would be recommended for that space? What size CMH light would I need? I want to keep my electricity usage under 200watt/hour until I can get solar panels put in (Average Kw/H here is over 30 cents) after that I'll get a 600w+ system. Would it still be worth grabbing a small led panel that I could use for cloning or vegging in a smaller space?
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I've been looking at some of the grow journals in here where these are being used. I think they look pretty interesting and they seem to be widely recommended for a 3x3: http://growershouse.com/sun-system-lec-315-light-emitting-ceramic-mh-fixture-120v
 
H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
Sussy said:
It will be around 3x3x7, how many plants would be recommended for that space? What size CMH light would I need? I want to keep my electricity usage under 200watt/hour until I can get solar panels put in (Average Kw/H here is over 30 cents) after that I'll get a 600w+ system. Would it still be worth grabbing a small led panel that I could use for cloning or vegging in a smaller space?
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I'm considering the Sun System CMH fixtures as value for money alternatives to LED for part of a slightly larger tent where ideally I'd prefer high end LED's, but it works out too expensive for me to grab several panels at the start. I'm in no rush though as I'm not yet ready to start growing for different reasons. Also, I'd like to see some more info about these CMH fixtures before jumping on one. So far, there's hardly any info at all out there relating specifically to the larger 630W unit:cry: (anyone here seen one in use?). Not to mention, seems silly to bite the bullet early when prices are always falling on new tech' (LED's) and I'm not even ready to use it yet!

If you want a low consumption LED light for vegging in an even smaller space and at a low-ish price, you might look at something like one of these:

http://bonsaihero.com/index.php/ledgrow-led-panel-65-w
OR maybe, for under $100...
http://growershouse.com/kessil-h150-led-grow-light-purple

Please understand, I'm a newbie and these are not recommendations based on experience, I've just been looking into LED's recently and thought the links might be useful.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Sussy said:
It will be around 3x3x7, how many plants would be recommended for that space? What size CMH light would I need? I want to keep my electricity usage under 200watt/hour until I can get solar panels put in (Average Kw/H here is over 30 cents) after that I'll get a 600w+ system. Would it still be worth grabbing a small led panel that I could use for cloning or vegging in a smaller space?
Click to expand...
Number of plants depends on how large you'll grow (how long you veg), whether you'll scrog or grow taller/narrower, the strain (bushy or tall). I'd say 4 plants if you veg less, keeping them 2' tall. I have a 4x4 tent and easy do 4 plants that are 4' tall. I can do 5 plants if they're smaller.

That 315 CMH is for a 3x3 space.

If energy efficiency is your primary goal: best choice would be to build your own COBs. Those are leading edge tech. The 3rd gen I mentioned. Most light for lowest electrical use.

Next would be four Area-51 RW-75 fixtures. They've been among the top-tier of efficiency. I call this 2nd gen. But, I'm going to get in trouble labeling things like this. There have been incremental improvements from the efficiency of Chinese lights (which I call gen1) and A51's present RW line. There will continue to be incremental improvements such as the next model which will be more efficient LEDs, 10w, and more modular/configurable for coverage.

For vegging/cloning you can get Cree LED "lightbulbs" at Home Depot. They'll be more energy efficient than Chinese epi-whatever LEDs. Less expensive, more flexible, scalable, 10-year warranty. I documented everything I've gathered about their usage here. (<<link).

Buying Chinese might be useful if you were in a smaller 2x2x4 tall space and didn't want the headaches of rigging up "lightbulbs" like above. If you had $150 to play with and didn't care that it's a disposable light.

But, if energy efficiency is your priority, DIY Cob, A51 and CMH are your best choices for a larger/taller area. For a smaller area (veg), the "lightbulbs."
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Heavy Consumer said:
To anyone's knowledge here, are any reputable manufacturers getting close to marketing fixtures built with COB diodes yet? Is anything being forecast or rumoured to be in the works for the coming year?
Click to expand...
The other day greengene said he's aware of commercial COBs being weeks away from hitting the market, but he's not authorized to give more details. Someone else posted Lighthouse Hydro/Gotham is about to release a Cree COB fixture. (Some sketicism about whether it's really Cree. LH/Gotham is in the category of rebranded Chinese import sold at a premium. Their product descriptions are not always truthful about the bands and diodes used. It would be nice if they step up to being a better light. But, for now, just because they say "Cree" doesn't mean that's what they're using.).
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
getsoutalive said:
If you are dead set on giving this a go, I would use a vertical version of what @SomeGuy recently finished his horizontal with. He used vinyl fence posts and mounted cobs on heatsinks that were sunk into the post. Air can be pushed into the bottom and/or sucked out the top of each post so that you wouldnt need a fan for each cob/sink combo. Normal recommendation is for about 50% of current HPS wattage when converting to LED. I think, since you are trying to shoehorn LEDs into a shape that actually benefits from the HPS design, you might need more than usual to get similar performance.

I would arrange 6 5+ft tall vinyl fence posts as if they were faces on that hexagonal cylinder above. Install at least 5 Vero 18 cob chips on each post with heatsink fins inside the posts. I would drive them with the fasttech 50w drivers. Might need to think about the heatsink a bit more. Not sure a CPU cooler is the right choice for inside a post like this. Something with a bit more spacing between the fins would be more effective as the air flowed from the bottom up.

So you would be looking at 30 cob chips, drivers and heatsinks. At around $50/ea, plus fans, connectors, fence posts, hangers, etc. That should get you into the ballpark.
Click to expand...
This answers many of my questions, thank you very much. Thinking three large is about what will be required to set up one silo?
 
H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
The other day greengene said he's aware of commercial COBs being weeks away from hitting the market, but he's not authorized to give more details. Someone else posted Lighthouse Hydro/Gotham is about to release a Cree COB fixture. (Some sketicism about whether it's really Cree. LH/Gotham is in the category of rebranded Chinese import sold at a premium. Their product descriptions are not always truthful about the bands and diodes used. It would be nice if they step up to being a better light. But, for now, just because they say "Cree" doesn't mean that's what they're using.).
Click to expand...

So, I just found my way from here: http://rollitup.org/t/hyroots-garden.841336/page-21#post-11143518

to here: http://www.amaretechnologies.com/ss.350.uvb.html

VERY INTERESTING!
 
H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
To bad they are using older COBs,the single diodes are probably a gen or two older also.
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Yes, that's a shame. I don't actually know what the single diodes used in that fixture are. I emailed to ask, but I'm sure that info will be posted soon enough. Nonetheless, it's encouraging and hopefully a sign that commercial COB panels are on their way. Not all of us have your DIY skills Cap'n!
 
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