IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

When I got interested in indoor lighting 20 years ago I made it a point to read everything. Educate yourself...leds can be a doorstop and pocket unloader or it can be the best indoor lighting possible that will last indefinitely at a fair price. What you end up with is up to you..

198 pages..that's nothing..try reading through the ROLS threads

...pretty much done over there...

...Hosebomber is a very knowledgeable and articulate individual but something of a horse's ass...

...used up half a gig just reading over there, too...

...the fanless design of the spectrum king and the spectrum of the spectrum king are attractive attributes...I was trying to find someone with actual experience with them and am not impressed by disparaging comments offered as criticism...

...plenty of that at 420...

...it is not often that one learns form someone they agree with, eh...just looking for the facts...

...

Hapo said:

...what hype...???...not finding much of anything...

...like I said, it may be that people who use them are not noob posting on forums...

...you guys are not much more helpful than the 420 guys...does everyone have an agenda...???...

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Nice little stab at calling us noobs. So what does your garden look like???
No agendas...we just know what is the best and currently a51 is the best performance to value light I know of...and I know at least the specs of almost all in the market. It's actually pretty easy to know who will be better in the end because no one actually has any secrets...no one makes ther own components...and specs are available from the actual chip/driver manufacturers online.
If we know everything about the components then how they work as a unit is not hard to predict.

Then there a the reality check list of completed and successful all through out RIU.

Don't you think it strange that the spectrum king hits exactly 1000umols@12?? Which is weak by real growth standards might I add.

If you want the best then get an Apache...the original and king WR panels. A true commercial panel meant for full size grows.

As for spectrum king...they sure didn't come up with tht spectrum first, and passively cooled is very tough to do correctly and also effects lifespan even if at 50c.

...that's what I'm talking aboot...

...thakyou for you thoughful and informative reply...

...I will return to this after work...

Hapo said:

...wtf do you think I am doing now...???...

...how many of those companies are selling lights by the hundreds to professional grow operations...???...

...as I said before, it occurred to me that the people buying them won't be posting their grows on canibus forums...

...I have done enough research to see this place is something of a fan boy clubhouse...

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You are officially on Double Secret Probation; Dean Wermer, Animal House

...why didn't you '51 and Apache guys buy directly from bsled or cidly...???....

...could have saved a good bit and even speced the light better...???...

...as for micromole readings and such, I am becoming more and more convinced that they are a very variable and subjective measure and not something one can use to compare values, like troy wieght...

Hapo said:

...why didn't you '51 and Apache guys buy directly from bsled or cidly...???....

...could have saved a good bit and even speced the light better...???...

...as for micromole readings and such, I am becoming more and more convinced that they are a very variable and subjective measure and not something one can use to compare values, like troy wieght...

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There is no direct from china version...
For a51 guys it's probably because cidly/bsled don't offer the cree's that make the a51. Or the transparency of their specs in general. Plus the price is pretty darn good too. And the warranty too(limited life, and upgradeable).

For apache it's because no one offer the nichia's that AT uses or the fact they are made in Santa Clara, CA...everything that is not a sourced electrical component is made and built in CA...actually the lens come from Sweden I believe. Using meanwell drivers...prestigious clients that use and back there products...my personal results...the warranty(limited life)...all great reasons why I use AT's and why I imagine other would want to.

As for your view on µmols...get caught up on some horticulture science and plant physiology. They are not variable or subjective...the are are more consistent and objective than any other reading that can be taken in a garden.


As for where you should buy you spectrum king...Under a different brand call talltreesled...http://talltreesled.com
If I can find it there I'm sure just a little more digging and I would find it factory direct.

...very informative response and I thank you for taking the time to post it...

...my point on micromole reading is that they seem to be a lot like dynometer readings in that they are very depending upon many variables to produce accurate readings...

...we also know it is easy to exaggerated horse power with one, and that various dynos will give very different readings on the same machine...

Hello
I'm with Czech Republic.Technology LED I'm doing two years.Trying different panels from different manufacturers.Currently I have the test light ChloroBaC2.Attach a photo in 4 weeks in flowering.Rate this panel is too big.It can be seen that the flowers are growing nicely.I am curious to yield.

Hapo said:

...very informative response and I thank you for taking the time to post it...

...my point on micromole reading is that they seem to be a lot like dynometer readings in that they are very depending upon many variables to produce accurate readings...

...we also know it is easy to exaggerated horse power with one, and that various dynos will give very different readings on the same machine...

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Why are you here if you you know everything already.
Hate to burst your bubble about umols, but not matter how you personally feel about them they are the only important metric of growth performance. And as to their accuracy... spectroradiometer and/or correctly calibrated hand meter. All perfectly accurate.

Both a51 and apaches advertised par numbers have been checked and varified by multiple 3rd parties.

But hey...what's the fuck do I know

M

David Pasta said:

Hello
I'm with Czech Republic.Technology LED I'm doing two years.Trying different panels from different manufacturers.Currently I have the test light ChloroBaC2.Attach a photo in 4 weeks in flowering.Rate this panel is too big.It can be seen that the flowers are growing nicely.I am curious to yield.

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Mr pasta your vermicelli is ready. I hope you didn't pay full price for the pasta cooker it looks a little underdone...

David Pasta said:

Hello
I'm with Czech Republic.Technology LED I'm doing two years.Trying different panels from different manufacturers.Currently I have the test light ChloroBaC2.Attach a photo in 4 weeks in flowering.Rate this panel is too big.It can be seen that the flowers are growing nicely.I am curious to yield.

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How much did Bysen charge you for the Chloro panel?? $1500 or $300 ????

Greengenes707 said:

Why are you here if you you know everything already.
Hate to burst your bubble about umols, but not matter how you personally feel about them they are the only important metric of growth performance. And as to their accuracy... spectroradiometer and/or correctly calibrated hand meter. All perfectly accurate.

Both a51 and apaches advertised par numbers have been checked and varified by multiple 3rd parties.

But hey...what's the fuck do I know

Click to expand...

...what to you know...???...that is what I am trying to determine...

...had you made a a shill but that seems to have been a mistake...

...it seems tall trees makes the spectrum king for super grow...the whole infrastructure of these things is a confusing tangle, eh...

...what is the problem with epistar...???...

....Mr Marnes was very open aboot the use of bridgelux and epistar LEDS in the spectrum king panels...

....as for micromole readings, it is the veracity of the reaings readings called into question...

...if the reading are not taken o the same machine but the same operator in a direct comparison, are they truly comparable...???...

Hapo said:

...what to you know...???...that is what I am trying to determine...

...had you made a a shill but that seems to have been a mistake...

...it seems tall trees makes the spectrum king for super grow...the whole infrastructure of these things is a confusing tangle, eh...

...what is the problem with epistar...???...

....Mr Marnes was very open aboot the use of bridgelux and epistar LEDS in the spectrum king panels...

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Yes GG knows his shit.................................

Also it's not just the manufacturers info that's important, BIN #s are key........efficiency will vary greatly

Hapo said:

....as for micromole readings, it is the veracity of the reaings readings called into question...

...if the reading are not taken o the same machine but the same operator in a direct comparison, are they truly comparable...???...

Click to expand...

their are no absolutes in this world, human error will come into play..............you should just take the advice you where given and stop over-thinking it

Hapo said:

...what to you know...???...that is what I am trying to determine...

...had you made a a shill but that seems to have been a mistake...

...it seems tall trees makes the spectrum king for super grow...the whole infrastructure of these things is a confusing tangle, eh...

...what is the problem with epistar...???...

....Mr Marnes was very open aboot the use of bridgelux and epistar LEDS in the spectrum king panels...

Click to expand...

Check out all my grows over the years if you need proof that I know what I am talking about...many in my sig. Shills don't recommend the two most directly competing lights/companies. I do test panels for apache...after I bought 14 at120's 4 years ago. The reason why I still run them so loyally is because they are the best in theory and reality...many other companies(even more expensive than AT's) have offered me panels(and not loans...to keep)...but no one else has shown me even just on theory/on paper that they are better than what I have...so that is why I stick with my AT's.

I personally hate the A51's owner...he is a pompous ass...but his product is still solid and quality. So despite my personal felling...I still recommend it because it is the right/best recommendation for most. they are the closest thing to an apache...and are more affordable.
Cree's(a51) and nichia's(apache) are right off the bat more efficient and have higher output than any of the top available offerings from epistar or bridglux...even their best bins. In this point in LED tech it still takes the best(efficiency and output) to compete with hps while using less wattage. And that is why it is so important to get an led that has the specs that will provide the perforce you want.

You came on here asking questions...we gave answers...all answers that are backed with info and facts...but you were/are set in your decision before you even asked a thing on this site and have been very opposed to anything we say.

Hapo said:

....as for micromole readings, it is the veracity of the reaings readings called into question...
...if the reading are not taken from the same machine but the same operator in a direct comparison, are they truly comparable...???...

Click to expand...

Even with different meters, yes they are. Even the most budget of par meters is accurate for all intents and purposes of comparison...specially on white based panels. We are talking realistically 5-7% error with cheap meters...not enough to disregard the readings. Photons...measured in µmols...are the most important and correlated thing to growth. Light is light(quantity wise). Spectrum plays a smaller role than most think.

...just because I do not swallow every thing hook line and sinker hardly means I have made up me mind aboot anything...that is what I am trying to do here...

...for what it is worth, instead of diparaging comments Marnes has advised me how to buy the competitions lights to best advantage. ..

...I have asked Apache for very basic information not o their site and still received no response other than they would get back to me...

...this lack of support before the sale has put me off...

Imaulle said:

I want to buy some CXA3590 and am wondering which variant I should pick? I'm trying to replace 4000 watt HPS in a 10' x 10' tent.....

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The 3070 is the better lamp. The AN bin is the best of the 3000k bulbs. They are available in the DYI Led forum thread.

Hapo said:

...just because I do not swallow every thing hook line and sinker hardly means I have made up me mind aboot anything...that is what I am trying to do here...

...for what it is worth, instead of diparaging comments Marnes has advised me how to buy the competitions lights to best advantage. ..

...I have asked Apache for very basic information not o their site and still received no response other than they would get back to me...

...this lack of support before the sale has put me off...

Click to expand...

To each their own. I really don't care what light you pick...it's your µmols thoughts will lead you in the wrong direction. They are your friend for comparing all lights. The key is you need readings from all over the indented coverage area. Just a center reading is basically worthless.
From what I have gathered Lighting Science(https://www.lsgc.com/lighting-by-type/grow-lights/vgrohb/) fits you needs pretty well. They are used by denver relief dispensary. Solid lights...osram chip(cool white and 660nm)...passively cooled...american built. 2 of their units is supposed to replace a 1K hps.

Just like apache...lighting science really doesn't care about 1, 2, or anything less than 10 light sales...they prefer and mostly deal with clients getting 20+ lights. Those kind of customers are dealt with in person or at least over the phone...special pricing and making sure the whole order is to the perfect specs for the facilities needs. So you might find their website and info a little lacking too.

...thanks for the information...

...is it my imagination or are you happy to see me buy anything that isn't from Robert Marnes...???...

...wtf did he do to you guys...???...