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kmog33 said:

But i would never think that 180 actual watts could cover a 4x4 thats just crazy talk, maybe as supplemental light but not as a standalone

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When I look at Hydroponics Group's page for the kit, it looks like they use some of the tent space for other things (pump, filter, etc.). The actual table size looks like about 2x3'.

Maybe they never intended the full tent to be used for growing. At least not "starting out." (I.e., a "starter kit."). I can see how someone might try. I probably would too. But, the site's photos look like only a portion of the tent is used for growing. And, I don't see many complaints (which we'd expect if they were really selling a kit with 10w sq ft.).

Probably poor communication on their part coupled by novice zeal.

az2000 said:

When I look at Hydroponics Group's page for the kit, it looks like they use some of the tent space for other things (pump, filter, etc.). The actual table size looks like about 2x3'.

Maybe they never intended the full tent to be used for growing. At least not "starting out." (I.e., a "starter kit."). I can see how someone might try. I probably would too. But, the site's photos look like only a portion of the tent is used for growing. And, I don't see many complaints (which we'd expect if they were really selling a kit with 10w sq ft.).

Probably poor communication on their part coupled by novice zeal.

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Ya i was so skeptical of leds at first it took a buddy essentially giving me one of the top of the line leds for nothing for me to even think about buying one for myself. But they definitely do work under the right conditions. And my 330 watt one pulled 12 oz off a plant the first run which is not terrible for not having any idea how to use it. This one will hopefully be better.

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Oh god.. this is painful... lol... Admitting that their might be a different solution.... lol..

So.. maybe the Apollo doesnt suck ass as much as I think. Maybe this thread has given me a suggestion that might work. Blast it... I put up the light bar last night. Put the Apollo on it this morning before I got onto rollitup. Its been on the bar for about two hours now. Because the light mover is moving faster than the plants can follow, it looks like they arent going to bend over to the light. You fellas might have hit the nail on the head. Maybe all this time the light bar is the solution? I'm still going to use the 1000w lamp. I'll just run this one along side it and see what happens.

kmog33 said:

Ya i was so skeptical of leds at first it took a buddy essentially giving me one of the top of the line leds for nothing for me to even think about buying one for myself. But they definitely do work under the right conditions. And my 330 watt one pulled 12 oz off a plant the first run which is not terrible for not having any idea how to use it. This one will hopefully be better.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

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Ok.. so spill the beans! What light are you using?

az2000 said:

When I look at Hydroponics Group's page for the kit, it looks like they use some of the tent space for other things (pump, filter, etc.). The actual table size looks like about 2x3'.

Maybe they never intended the full tent to be used for growing. At least not "starting out." (I.e., a "starter kit."). I can see how someone might try. I probably would too. But, the site's photos look like only a portion of the tent is used for growing. And, I don't see many complaints (which we'd expect if they were really selling a kit with 10w sq ft.).

Probably poor communication on their part coupled by novice zeal.

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Funny you should comment about this. I asked them about that very thing. They said that the photo shows the "full stealth option" but you could also use the tent with everything out of the tent and the light would work "just fine."

You are sure right about the novice zeal.. lol...

az2000 said:

If I were you, I would use your Apollo 6 right now, supplemented with t5s. Work out the watts per sq. ft. Your Apollo should be around 160w actual. If your t5s are "ho" and 4' long, they are 54w per tube. You can add up the watts and divide by 16 sq ft (tent space).

If your t5s are 6000k temperature, you can buy bulbs that are in the 3200k range. Put about 50-70% in your t5 fixtures during flower. Maybe 20-30% during veg. Be sure to buy HO tubes if your fixtures are HO.

That will give you time to investigate other LEDs, defer additional expense, etc.

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ROFL... Hey.. you! get outta my head!

The T5 is a "High output designer fluorescent light system" by Hydrofarm. I purchased used. It has T5 bulbs in it.. but I dont know how to tell if they are high output bulbs. Please explain what you are talking about with the bulbs? I had no idea I could get different type blubs... damn it.. damn it..

Where's my damn bong? lol..

You know.. I do live in Vegas... everyone comes here at least once in their lives... You folks better let me know when you are in town. I am pretty sure I am going to be laughing about these newbie days in a year or so.... piffle!

JazzyLady said:

Please explain what you are talking about with the bulbs?

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There are t5, t5ho and t5vho. I'm pretty sure your Hydrofarm fixture is ho. (I have Hydrofarm fixtures.). A t5ho tube will use 54w for 4' length, or 24w for 2' length.

You should be able to remove a tube and look at what's printed on an end of the tube. It should state the color temperature and watts.

You're looking for something like F54T5/830/HO (4' fixture) or, F24T5/830/HO (2' fixture). The 830 refers to the 3000k temp. Anything in the 827-835 range would be good for warm white, which you should increase the number of bulbs in flower (unless the LED or other sources produce warm/red light. You might not need warm white in your t5ho fixture.).

az2000 said:

There are t5, t5ho and t5vho. I'm pretty sure your Hydrofarm fixture is ho. (I have Hydrofarm fixtures.). A t5ho tube will use 54w for 4' length, or 24w for 2' length.

You should be able to remove a tube and look at what's printed on an end of the tube. It should state the color temperature and watts.

You're looking for something like F54T5/830/HO (4' fixture) or, F24T5/830/HO (2' fixture). The 830 refers to the 3000k temp. Anything in the 827-835 range would be good for warm white, which you should increase the number of bulbs in flower (unless the LED or other sources produce warm/red light. You might not need warm white in your t5ho fixture.).

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Ok.. looked on the tube.. they are Agro brite brand, 54w, 6400k, and they are four foot long.

JazzyLady said:

You know.. I do live in Vegas... everyone comes here at least once in their lives... You folks better let me know when you are in town. I am pretty sure I am going to be laughing about these newbie days in a year or so.... piffle!

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The first light i got was a theorem innovations smartlamp probloom 600. Grabbed it for 50 bucks off a buddy and ended up grabbing a vipar c2x2 after that one worked out well.

JazzyLady said:

Ok.. so spill the beans! What light are you using?

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My phone quoted these posts backwards lol so the responses are swapped, ill be out in vegas in August for the grand opening of my buddys clothing line

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

kmog33 said:

The first light i got was a theorem innovations smartlamp probloom 600. Grabbed it for 50 bucks off a buddy and ended up grabbing a vipar c2x2 after that one worked out well.

My phone quoted these posts backwards lol so the responses are swapped, ill be out in vegas in August for the grand opening of my buddys clothing line

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

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Cool. I'd love to meet ya! Come see what I have going on here and lend your valuable knowledge to me!

JazzyLady said:

Cool. I'd love to meet ya! Come see what I have going on here and lend your valuable knowledge to me!

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Definitely theres supposed to be some sweet parties while were out there for the opening.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

JazzyLady said:

Ok.. looked on the tube.. they are Agro brite brand, 54w, 6400k, and they are four foot long.

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That's the tubes they ship with. You bought them used. They could be due for new tubes. Tubes lose brightness after a lot of use.

Anyway, that's cool white. You may not need warm white if your Apollo has a lot of red. You can find 10-20 warm whites on eBay for about $3 each. Not sure how they compare to better name brands. Your local hydro store should have name brands. Might be better to pickup 2-3 that way.

There is a smartphone app called BeeCam light meter. It's free. You can measure the lux of new bulbs and compare that number as the lights are used over time, to see how much the light degrades (if it needs to be replaced).

awe straight to hell.

Just DL the BeeCam app. It says ISO 100, LUX 10240, EV 12.o, F 11.0, T 1/30 What does all this mean?? omg...

JazzyLady said:

Why cant you compare items by their price? \

Im fully aware that not all LEDs are equal. But.. I dont know how they are different.

For many people, price plays a part in making a decision about what to purchase, so I dont understand why you feel items can not be compared by price when there is a price difference? In an earlier post it was suggested that running the LED's would be less costly in the long run.

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I know, but an uneducated consumer (including me 3+years ago) is why they are still in business

THOSE OF US WHO LEARNED THE HARD WAY ARE ONLY TRYING TO HELP YOU

The answer is long , like a college semester long

So trust me, I/we have your best interest at heart

Got my RW-75 and set it up in my tent, I'll second the comment, this thing is tiny. It'll kick on in 3hrs, I'm anxious to see how it does.

PetFlora said:

I know, but an uneducated consumer (including me 3+years ago) is why they are still in business

THOSE OF US WHO LEARNED THE HARD WAY ARE ONLY TRYING TO HELP YOU

The answer is long , like a college semester long

So trust me, I/we have your best interest at heart

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I sorta figured out the answer was long about three hours after I wrote that. Please believe me when I say I am thrilled that peeps (you included) from this forum are helping/giving information.
Thanks folks.

JazzyLady said:

Just DL the BeeCam app. It says ISO 100, LUX 10240, EV 12.o, F 11.0, T 1/30 What does all this mean?? omg...

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It's an app for camera exposure. You can ignore everything except Lux. Simple explanation: Lumens is the strength of a light source, lux is the amount of light falling on an area. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux

But, all you need to do is measure lux at a specific distance. Write down the distance and the lux value. A few months later, do it again and see if your lights are losing their effectiveness.

There may be a better app. But, that one's free and as long as you can ignore all the other stuff, it is an effective tool. If I got a different camera, I might do a reading with the old and new phone to see if the phones' cameras are the same. Note any adjustment factor that might be necessary between the old and new phones.

Lux is a measurement of light we see, not light seen by plants (PAR). So, it has its limitations as a comparison of lights, etc. It can give you an idea of how lights are degrading.

PetFlora said:

The 2 simply cannot be compared

The problem is understanding not all leds are equal- not by a long shot

First it's not about watts, it's about intensity over and under the ACTUAL coverage

What we are looking for is how many umoles/m^/sec the panel puts out

You will never find that info on any cheap china light

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My light ( hydro Grow 189x) puts out 716.7 umoles at four feet above canopy!!

JazzyLady said:

Why cant you compare items by their price? \

Im fully aware that not all LEDs are equal. But.. I dont know how they are different.

For many people, price plays a part in making a decision about what to purchase, so I dont understand why you feel items can not be compared by price when there is a price difference? In an earlier post it was suggested that running the LED's would be less costly in the long run.

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it is. here is a real world example for you, When I started growing I was spending 330 dollars every month using a 600 MH/HPS setup. I then switched out the 600 with TWO different LED panels, so instead of having just one grow going I now have two going( two different tents/cabinets) and my light bill is at 315. right now. I dont have to run my air condition at 70 degrees anymore. if price pays apart in your decision think about how much money you save in five years time over initial investment. the results will be staggering I promise you. don't rush to get any old LED there is a reason the really good ones cost so much. they work.. Save your money and be proud of your investment later on...or get dropped shipped something and hope it works. those are your choices Red or blue pill. which will you choose?