If they come for your guns, do you have a responsibility to fight?

^^ just looked it up. MA, GA and CT ratified in 1939 for the sesquicentennial of the Constitution's ratification. But since ratification does not require unanimity, ~shrug~. cn

NLXSK1 said:

The biggest school massacre happened in 1927 and explosives were used.

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Bath, MI. I know the story. He even girded his trees, killed his livestock, I think killed his wife. Over taxes I believe.

st0wandgrow said:

I found this article interesting. What do you make of it?

"Dr. Carl T. Bogus wrote for the University of California Law Review in 1998, "The Georgia statutes required patrols, under the direction of commissioned militia officers, to examine every plantation each month and authorized them to search 'all Negro Houses for offensive Weapons and Ammunition' and to apprehend and give twenty lashes to any slave found outside plantation grounds."

http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery

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Dr ​Bogus.... LOL, fucking hilarious.

Doer said:

Right the double standard is not being Constitutional, but emotional.... mobbish. Ignore the facts.

Just heard Bloomberg, ragging on Hunters. "If you can't get deer in 2 shots you shouldn't be hunting."

OK, but this is the red herring, the BIG LIE. This nothing to do with hunting and the Agenda driven, anti-Constitutional forces know this. The document was written specifically against this Agenda. The New Pussy Left hates it. They think they can tamper us into re-writing it. And the argument smoke screens are as stupid as they are dense.

They are like vampires in the sun. Exposed and neutered. Blocked by serious thinkers that outclassed them centuries ago.

Our Founders, the Sovereigns, knew this Progressiveness, by other names. Generally, despotism. It is not a 200 hundred year old concept. It was the best minds of the day, thinking very hard about our future and how to protect it from the loons they knew and the ones we would know. Their thinking was cast firmly in the future, seems to me. Not hunting, or protection.

It is only about....being necessary to the security of a free State...Right...shall not be infringed.

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I heard him say that this morning. If you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it.

ChesusRice said:

Mcveigh
fertilizer and heating oil
rented truck

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good point we should ban heating oil and trucks also

kelly4 said:

What's easier than getting in your car and hitting the gas?

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its as easy as looking away and texting while driving im almost certain that has killed more people then the handful of shooting spree's in the last year

Yes it kind of sounds like they meant for the people to be the militia as a check and balance on the federal government.....doesn't it?

NLXSK1 said:

The words are pretty clear... Especially "THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS"

If they wanted a militia to be able to keep and bear arms they would have said THE RIGHT OF THE MILITIA...

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ChesusRice said:

Mcveigh
fertilizer and heating oil
rented truck

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I believe he also had a drum or two of nitro racing fuel in the rented truck..............nitro..

zambonic said:

Yes it kind of sounds like they meant for the people to be the militia as a check and balance on the federal government.....doesn't it?

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Well, that was the Jefferson idea, maybe. He mused about it. And Checks and Balance be USA.

But, the way I see it is more simple. In the day of the Founders. A horse and/or a coastal cutter was the only communication. They didn't have to foresee the fragile communication age. They knew fragile in all forms.

But, today, our comms are very fragile. France could EMP us within 5 mins. They have sub patrols off our coast constantly.

So, the 2nd is about protecting our Constitution. If it's for the Loons or the French, we keep and bare arms.

Doer said:

You can dig up all dirt on all States. Dirty little water wars still going on. Those used to be all out and bloody.

Hey, man, Slavery was slavery. We didn't like it. We abolished it. We won. End of story.

To link the pre-Lincoln State militas to the 2nd....just more sophistry. It has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps you did not know that Georgia didn't even ratify the Bill of Rights until March, 1939?
You can find out why for yourself.

Don't quote these idiots. They are parsing words to tamper with your feelings.

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I made no claims as to the accuracy of the article. It could be mostly BS for all I know. I do wonder about the quotes of Madison and others, though? Would this guy make up quotes from our founders, or is there some legitimacy to it? If Madison and others did in fact say what was contained in this article, then there certainly does look to be a pretty close connection between slavery and the 2'nd amendment.

Mr Neutron said:

Dr ​Bogus.... LOL, fucking hilarious.

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The extent of your reply is to mock the guys last name? OK

Care to refute anything he said, or can I expect more of the sophomoric humor?

st0wandgrow said:

Doer said:

You can dig up all dirt on all States. Dirty little water wars still going on. Those used to be all out and bloody.

Hey, man, Slavery was slavery. We didn't like it. We abolished it. We won. End of story.

To link the pre-Lincoln State militas to the 2nd....just more sophistry. It has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps you did not know that Georgia didn't even ratify the Bill of Rights until March, 1939?
You can find out why for yourself.

Don't quote these idiots. They are parsing words to tamper with your feelings.

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I made no claims as to the accuracy of the article. It could be mostly BS for all I know. I do wonder about the quotes of Madison and others, though? Would this guy make up quotes from our founders, or is there some legitimacy to it? If Madison and others did in fact say what was contained in this article, then there certainly does look to be a pretty close connection between slavery and the 2'nd amendment.

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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms, is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson Papers , pg 334

st0wandgrow said:

I made no claims as to the accuracy of the article. It could be mostly BS for all I know. I do wonder about the quotes of Madison and others, though? Would this guy make up quotes from our founders, or is there some legitimacy to it? If Madison and others did in fact say what was contained in this article, then there certainly does look to be a pretty close connection between slavery and the 2'nd amendment.

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But, you are confused about the timelines. Jefferson owned slaves. I've stood in his Slave Quarters.

And as, cn, alluded. Is he quoting, in this paper, or mis-quoting for Agenda? It is unfortunate, in this turn of phrase of Jefferson's. But, it was all about free men, it was dire revolution. We were protecting women, property and slaves.

It was the world before us.

The point is there were many drafts, many signatory attempts, but only One Constitution that was ratified.

I think it is because they wanted something that was only about Rights. There is very little about opinions.

The endless re-write of the 2nd is but one example. If you read them, opinions were rinsed out to expose the timeless jewel.

If slave rebellion was a part of it, now there are no slaves. We won. Now there is this Progressive rebellion. And what happens? Guns fly off the shelf. States re-install open carry. Statistics prove it is better for lowering crime. We are dealing with Power hogs.

We may end up using force.

Doesn't that tell you something?

Maybe I missed something. Am I hearing this correct...The government is coming to take my guns away from me?

Come on people, stop being retarded. Obama and the rest of the government is NOT trying to take your guns away. If anyone on here can show a single iota of evidence to this, then I will humbly apologize. Seriously, where are you getting this ignorant information? Where on that paper that Obama signed said the American people have to give away all of their guns? I thought, now correct me if I am wrong, that they want to put limitations on the type of weapons a civilian can have, and the size a magazine can hold. I thought those were the main things that was in the executive orders that Obama signed off on, or whatever it was he is doing.

Maybe I don't see Obama as this Hitler/Stalin Tyrant that these right wing crack jobs see him as.

The saddest part of all of this arguing is that the people who support having full auto weapons, large capacity magazines, who claim to be Pro-America, "I'll do anything to protect my country" type of people, is that they are not willing to sacrifice anything at all to help save the lives of innocent children and adults. If you are so Pro-America, and want America to succeed and become even better, then why not give up something that has no REAL use for you other than being used to get off on, to help our American Citizens advance.

You want to cry that we have the right to keep and bear arms, yes, that is true and no one is taking that away. What the government is trying to do is keep these high powered assault weapons and extra large magazines out of the hands of crazy people. If you can't see that then maybe you are one of those crazy people who is willing to kill a bunch of innocent children.

Be a real American and help save lives, because that is what America is about....The right to pursue happiness, unfortunately, not just those kids in Newton but others who have been murdered do not have the chance to pursue happiness anymore. Their chance was taken away by a mentally ill person who had easy access to guns.

You can call me liberal all you want, but I'm not as liberal as one would assume. I have and love guns, I agree with the death penalty, I think the government should be limited - to an extent. But I am also capable of making sacrifices for the better of society.

No one is saying they are banning all guns, so stop being paranoid. People cried the same thing back in the 90's with Clinton, and guess what....he didn't come and take our guns did he? NOPE

"First they came for our guns....but that never really happened did it"


So again, if anyone on here can show one bit of evidence, and not some kind of right wing conspiracy theory report from Rush or Drudge or the whole retarded crew at Fox News, then I will give you an apology and will never show back up on these forums again.

Here I'll make it easier for you, this is what Obama is trying to put in place that these idiots are so outraged about. And please, please, pleeeeaaaasssse tell me where in here does it say they are taking away your guns? To me, as a gun owner, it has no affect to me or my livelihood at all.

[h=2]Proposed Congressional Actions[/h]

• Requiring criminal background checks for all gun sales, including those by private sellers that currently are exempt. ---ooh this is such a bad thing huh
• Reinstating and strengthening the ban on assault weapons that was in place from 1994 to 2004. --boo hoo, something that was already in place that had no affect to you is really going to hurt you and your chance to the right to bear arms
• Limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds. -- as mentioned before, if you can't protect yourself with 10 rounds then you must be a bad shot and don't need a gun in the first place
• Banning the possession of armor-piercing bullets by anyone other than members of the military and law enforcement. -- sounds good to me, why would you need armor piercing bullets...are you planning on taking out an armored bank truck?
• Increasing criminal penalties for "straw purchasers," people who pass the required background check to buy a gun on behalf of someone else. -- should be in effect already
• Acting on a $4 billion administration proposal to help keep 15,000 police officers on the street. -- Sounds good to me, keeping cops on the street, protecting us, and ensuring that jobs are safe in an economy where republicans cry about unemployment.
• Confirming President Obama's nominee for director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. --Uhhh, sounds like common sense to me, shouldn't we have already had one...oh that's right, this was Bush's doing so it must have made sense huh.
• Eliminating a restriction that requires the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to allow the importation of weapons that are more than 50 years old. -- Again, shouldn't this have been in place already?
• Financing programs to train more police officers, first responders and school officials on how to respond to active armed attacks. -- What is wrong with this? Please tell me.
• Provide additional $20 million to help expand the a system that tracks violent deaths across the nation from 18 states to 50 states. -- Yea, I think it's this part that means they are taking your guns away.
• Providing $30 million in grants to states to help schools develop emergency response plans. -- I'm sure no one can argue against this, unless of course you are just a complete moron.
• Providing financing to expand mental health programs for young people. -- We should have done this 30 years ago.

[h=2]Executive actions[/h]

• Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system. -- Wait, maybe this is the part where they are gonna take your guns.
• Addressing unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system. -- Again, I figured this should have been in place already, what it does is releases certain mental health information about people who are trying to buy guns. Maybe it's a good idea that gun dealers know if they are selling a gun to someone who is clinically insane. Waaaiiiit...I just figured it out, maybe this is what people are upset about, they won't be able to buy a gun anymore because they are F_CKIN Insane.
• Improving incentives for states to share information with the background check system. -- Sounds good
• Directing the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks. -- Is this where they are infringing on your rights?
• Proposing a rule making to give law enforcement authorities the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun. -- Again, I'm completely surprised that this wasn't already in action....shouldn't the police be able to find out what type of person they are dealing with?
• Publishing a letter from the A.T.F. to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. -- WOW, this is soooooo bad, I can't believe this, this must be the part where Fox News and other ignorant repubs are saying why Obama is a Tyrant....yup, it sure does have that Tyranical feel about it.
• Starting a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign. -- This really doesn't sound like a Tyrant is making these Executive Orders now does it.
• Reviewing safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission). -- A simple gun safe and trigger guards should be enough to help keep guns out of their kids hands, I'm sure that is working wonders. If it's not working then we should not do anything about it huh....I imagine that's the thought process of these gun nuts.
• Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. -- WTF...AGAIN, shouldn't this already be in place, and how does this really affect the individual responsible gun owner?
• Releasing a report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and making it widely available to law enforcement authorities. -- SMH...I really can't believe that we never had these things in place, sounds to me that the American Government as a whole, from the very beginning, was being irresponsible with gun ownership anyway.
• Nominating an A.T.F. director. -- Wait, here it is, this is where they are saying they are taking our guns away.
• Providing law enforcement authorities, first responders and school officials with proper training for armed attacks situations. -- Common sense to me
• Maximizing enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime. -- SMH again, we must have been living in the wild west for all these years and didn't know it. How the hell do you not try to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crimes to the fullest.
• Issuing a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to research gun violence. -- Yup, he is over stepping his boundaries and is implementing his Tyranical rule.
• Directing the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenging the private sector to develop innovative technologies. -- Wow, this really is going to hurt gun owners alot.
• Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes. -- They already ask women if they feel safe at home, so why not ask if there are guns in the house. I have nothing to hide, well...maybe I do lol, but not when it comes to guns that is.
• Releasing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities. -- Sounds like good info to me.
• Providing incentives for schools to hire school resource officers. -- Oh this is such a horrible idea right? Isn't this what the NRA was saying we should do?
• Developing model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education. -- This one speaks for itself.
• Releasing a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover. O.K., this may or may not help prevent mass shootings, but atleast they are trying to do something.
• Finalizing regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within insurance exchanges. -- Pure Evil here
• Committing to finalizing mental health parity regulations. -- Again, this is just evil
• Starting a national dialogue on mental health led by Kathleen Sebelius, the secretary of health and human services, and Arne Duncan, the secretary of education. -- Yep, this is the starting point where King Obama is going to give the order to take away our guns....you got it completely right.

And don't try and say Obama is stepping over his boundaries by signing executive orders...Bush did the same thing but none of the Republicans were crying then, and Bush didn't even make an executive order that was even relevant...He signed an executive order to "Help protect the Stripped Bass".

then why not give up something that has no REAL use for you other than being used to get off on, to help our American Citizens advance.

------------
Because of your attitude it's in there
Clear?

Our Right is to make sure your idea of advancement won't happen
We should disarm for advancement?
That is why the 2nd is there

Where does it say they are trying to DISARM anyone? Can you f_ckin read?

Where in the Executive Orders does it say they are going to take peoples guns? Can you give a clean answer on that? You can't because it doesn't say anything about disarming anyone. Why do you need to have an assault rifle? Tell me one reason you need an assault rifle with a 100 round magazine? What real use will you ever in your life and your childrens lives will you need to use something like that other than for killing humans?

Can you tell me one good reason why you need an AR15, with 100 round mags? No one on the right is willing to answer that, they just keep dancing around the question and crying, "They are taking away our 2nd amendment rights", and the only reason they are saying this is because they hate Democrats and will do anything to get them out of office or make them look bad. It's pathetic.

Taking assault weapons off the streets and out of the hands of criminals will help advance our country. Who to say that one of those kids in Newton wasn't a genius who would have one day came up with the cure for cancer? No one knows. Hell, I can't even say that is the case, but, no one can say it couldn't have happened. Who says one of those kids wasn't going to grow up to be a great musician who inspires millions of people with their music. We will never know because idiots want criminals and the institutionally insane people to have access to, not just assault rifles, but other easily accessible weapons so they can go on killing sprees just so they can keep filling their ego as to why they need a gun. They create a reason so they can have all the guns they want because they have some kind of mental health issue of their own, maybe they have low self esteem, maybe they are weak minded individuals, maybe they got their ass kicked all the time growing up and now they feel like a billy bad ass cause they have a magazine that holds 100 rounds and so they can brag to their backwards friends that "If the shit hits the fan, I'll be prepared".

But you're only making a joke out of yourself, because in REALITY, the shit isn't going to hit the fan.

• Can you tell me one good reason why you need an AR15, with 100 round mags?​
  
  
  
  

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The 2nd amendment...

I can read I respond to your question of why can't I give up what you say I don't NEED

To you it advances us I say it defeats us
to me it is rebellion to claim you get to question what I NEED when the Document says
Shall not be infringed

If the shit hits the fan It could be precisely because of this tampering

• But you're only making a joke out of yourself, because in REALITY, the shit isn't going to hit the fan.​
  
  
  
  

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Shit hits the fan every day... Who are you to know when and where it hits?

You are the grashopper...