If Tax cuts create jobs

althor said:

More than anything it has been concerns over what will happen. My taxes increased during Obama, and every other small business owner I know agrees that their's increased as well. We have all been worried about what the AFA would do, which scares owners from hiring employees when we arent sure what our responsibilities will be. The stock market has been fluctuating so much that it also adds concerns. The stock market fluctuations are direct results of what is happening/not happening in Congress. Still wondering about whats going to happen with the Bush Tax cuts. If my taxes are about to jump up 10%, I cant afford to hire employees. So we are stuck in a stasis with no clear vision whatsoever in what the future holds.

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Repeatedly I see business owners posting that Obama's policies are keeping them from hiring. I have heard it on occasion even on radio talk shows. Yet, whenever the business owner is questioned as to exactly what policies those are they most often give the same one that is given here.

"More than anything it is the uncertainty" Is the refrain, here as well. The point is that it is NOT OBAMA'S policies that are keeping you from hiring. Beyond that, if business were as paralized as owners claim by their "not knowing what will happen", then no business would ever hire anyone ever again. the news is that no one ever knows "what will happen" and we as business owners who didn't know "what would happen" when we started our businesses. We took risks with our time and money and resources let alone those who jumped from being an employee to an owner and we never "knew what would happen".

the truth is that you hire based upon need today and in the near future. The truth is that in most cases you are not bound to keep those you hire and your costs of a RIF, though not minor are not enough to keep the average business from hiring as a result of an evaluated value of a work force increase.

Beyond even that. In my industry we REALLY don't know what will happen next, it could be that I am placed in jail, but that has little effect on my current direction. The lesson here is that what happens in our perspective industries, and what happens localy in the environment and in local regulations and laws is a more powerful incentive to hire or not hire than whatever moaning one does over a particular president.

In short althor, I suspect that your hesitancy over hiring actually has very little to do with the presidency or what congress does. I am saddened by the number of times I have seen or heard this indictment of this president with vaguaries and inuendo.

beenthere said:

They are shackled by regulations and uncertainty Einstein!

The two biggest components of supply side economics are lower taxes and less regulation, are you really this misinformed? Your kind wants to bury businesses with job killing bureaucratic regulations, you threaten tax hikes each time the cuts are going to expire and now wonder where the fucking jobs are? LMFAO

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The question is appropriate. Where are the jobs. I know Beenthere that you and I trade platitudes. Mine is "Obama's plans have been thwarted by an obstructionist congress" while yours is "job killing bureaucratic regulations and taxes" The difference is that I can actually prove my assertions wherupon you cannot.

Kindly show me 5 major job killing regulations and the measured effects of those regulations on the jobs you claim were jetisoned or failed to materialize.

Oh, and about Ohio? Why did Ohio shut down it's early voting provisions? You never did answer that.

Ok to start off, I dont know what new taxes, or old tax breaks expired. I am not an accountant. I have my taxes done by the same, well respected company, the same person, every year for over 15 years. The last two years, while my income has been near the same, has gone up over 1k that I am paying.

The hesitancy has everything to do with what policies are being inacted. The AFA is nothing like anything we have ever had in my lifetime. Exactly what will be my responsibilities as a small business owner? I have 4 employees. If I end up paying 3-4 hundred a month for 4 employees, thats basically one months salary for a 5th employee. So I will not hire a 5th until I know what my expenses will be in the future. Its been dragged out so long that it has effected me. Even if I get a "voucher" or "tax break" from my expenses, that doesnt pay in advance. I will have to pay that extra for the year and then get it reimbursed. At this point there is much too much unknown to make longterm commitments. If anything we need it to take affect one way or another and let us get past this point.

althor said:

Ok to start off, I dont know what new taxes, or old tax breaks expired. I am not an accountant. I have my taxes done by the same, well respected company, the same person, every year for over 15 years. The last two years, while my income has been near the same, has gone up over 1k that I am paying.

The hesitancy has everything to do with what policies are being inacted. The AFA is nothing like anything we have ever had in my lifetime. Exactly what will be my responsibilities as a small business owner? I have 4 employees. If I end up paying 3-4 hundred a month for 4 employees, thats basically one months salary for a 5th employee. So I will not hire a 5th until I know what my expenses will be in the future. Its been dragged out so long that it has effected me. Even if I get a "voucher" or "tax break" from my expenses, that doesnt pay in advance. I will have to pay that extra for the year and then get it reimbursed. At this point there is much too much unknown to make longterm commitments. If anything we need it to take affect one way or another and let us get past this point.

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so you saying that you basically clueless about your money and trust someone else to manage it for you. Now your income stays the same but your taxes are up 1k and you are still clueless to why....got it. I guess you are a new breed of businessman

Mr Neutron said:

hmmmmmmmmm... interesting, would you elaborate, please?

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What's to elaborate? The proponents of natural law believe that there is a real and harnessable tendency for people to converge upon a fixed moral center. Without this conceit, natural law doctrine separates from reality, from human history. The trouble is, I have not found such a moral center to exist. cn

althor said:

Ok to start off, I dont know what new taxes, or old tax breaks expired. I am not an accountant. I have my taxes done by the same, well respected company, the same person, every year for over 15 years. The last two years, while my income has been near the same, has gone up over 1k that I am paying.

The hesitancy has everything to do with what policies are being inacted. The AFA is nothing like anything we have ever had in my lifetime. Exactly what will be my responsibilities as a small business owner? I have 4 employees. If I end up paying 3-4 hundred a month for 4 employees, thats basically one months salary for a 5th employee. So I will not hire a 5th until I know what my expenses will be in the future. Its been dragged out so long that it has effected me. Even if I get a "voucher" or "tax break" from my expenses, that doesnt pay in advance. I will have to pay that extra for the year and then get it reimbursed. At this point there is much too much unknown to make longterm commitments. If anything we need it to take affect one way or another and let us get past this point.

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So you spoke in error when you claimed that it was Obama's policies that are inhibiting you from hiring.

You do not know what taxes have been raised or altered, only that your accountant tells you that you must pay more than you have in the past.


And you don't think it is the least bit irresponsible to claim on a public forum that Obama is keeping you from hiring when you really don't know at all?

londonfog said:

so you saying that you basically clueless about your money and trust someone else to manage it for you. Now your income stays the same but your taxes are up 1k and you are still clueless to why....got it. I guess you are a new breed of businessman

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We needn't get nasty with the man now london.

canndo said:

So you spoke in error when you claimed that it was Obama's policies that are inhibiting you from hiring.

You do not know what taxes have been raised or altered, only that your accountant tells you that you must pay more than you have in the past.


And you don't think it is the least bit irresponsible to claim on a public forum that Obama is keeping you from hiring when you really don't know at all?

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If my taxes increased best believe I will have the info as to why and as to offset.

What kind of businessman is this guy. I guess he really didn't build that

canndo said:

We needn't get nasty with the man now london.

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Nasty..hell that was nice

londonfog said:

Nasty..hell that was nice

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In all likelyhood London, this businesman will go to some other forum and repeat the same thing, in all likelyhood he will not be questioned in that other forum and his voice will be coupled with all the others who are riding the "if it is bad, Obama did it" cart and his statement will be repeated "All of my small business owner friends say the same thing".

and so it goes. As I said, no shame, and no adjustment in order to conform with reality. I laugh at those who whimper and titter that they "don't know what will happen next" when the worst that could happen to them is that they lose a few bucks or have to reverse their direction. Whereupon I could concieveably be brought before a criminal court. And they have the audacity to tremble "we don't know what will happen...."

canndo said:

In all likelyhood London, this businesman will go to some other forum and repeat the same thing, in all likelyhood he will not be questioned in that other forum and his voice will be coupled with all the others who are riding the "if it is bad, Obama did it" cart and his statement will be repeated "All of my small business owner friends say the same thing".

and so it goes. As I said, no shame, and no adjustment in order to conform with reality. I laugh at those who whimper and titter that they "don't know what will happen next" when the worst that could happen to them is that they lose a few bucks or have to reverse their direction. Whereupon I could concieveably be brought before a criminal court. And they have the audacity to tremble "we don't know what will happen...."

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I like uncovering the truth behind the lie

beenthere said:

Sorry to tell ya dude, when your whole life evolves around weed, you're going to be stuck with minimum wage jobs!

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I do know you know absolutely nothing about me.

Save it for a soap box, dude.

nontheist said:

So you hate the guy because he is rich? Obama is a very rich man now ever think to question that? Mitt has more but when you start talking million does it even matter to the average Joe anymore?

Barack Obama and wife have a tidy 12 million dollar estate. Not anything in comparison with Mitt but it makes one wonder how did the Obamas become millionaires?
Mr. Obama makes $ 400,000 a year as President and Mrs. Obama has not worked since 2007. How did they become millionaires?

Prior to becoming a candidate for President, he was a U.S. Senator making about $ 160,000 and she was legal counsel for a NONPROFIT hospital at about the same income as her husband. Say, they made $ 300,000 annually between them, how did they become millionaires?

Before joining the U.S. Senate, he was a State Senator at $ 65,000 a year. He also taught part-time in a law school for $ 60,000 – 80,000.

Now I am not ripping on Obama for this I know its the name of the game, this is why almost every senator is a millionaire. Just ease back on the bama koolaid.

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Did my post even mention Obama? I don't remember..........

Edit:

Nope, it di-int.

Funny how something gets read into nothing by flat-earthers.

londonfog said:

I like uncovering the truth behind the lie

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What is doubly sad london, is that he likely is not lying. He is going along with the herd. He did notice that he had to pay more, he does hear over and over again that government regulations are opressive (and some actually are), he worries at night about what comes next for his company and he has been overcome by the machine that has him simply blame Obama, why it must be him, it has to be, what other explaination is there?

And he does not see the need to examine his beliefs.

I think this is far far worse than a lie, as it is systemic in our current culture.

londonfog said:

so you saying that you basically clueless about your money and trust someone else to manage it for you. Now your income stays the same but your taxes are up 1k and you are still clueless to why....got it. I guess you are a new breed of businessman

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sorry london but if you don't understand why people hire CPAs you have no business talking business.
On top of that, you were really rude about something you obviously are clueless about.

Taxes from the affordable care act began when it was passed, the coverage was postponed for 4 years so they could lie about the cost. I can't even pretend to tell you what all taxes are involved because it seems to be a moving target there were so many provisions added to get it passed. Part of my job is as a clinical consultant on the HITECH aspect of the bill so I'm only proficient in that area but those 200 some odd pages reference so many different laws and regulations that you'd have to read thousands of pages just to fully grasp those 200 so you can imagine what the rest of the 2700 boondoggle contains.

If he is not in a green field I have no doubt his taxes have gone up. I probably just wasted my time though because you think businesses should do their own taxes and most likely applauded a health care bill because they told you what it was when even they didn't read it.

There is actually a provision in the bill that if your EMR is DOS based you must use password complexity then goes on to spell out it MUST be in this format NAAAAAA. So instead of fFq!129**B we have to change our password (company wide) to something like 1summer. Central planning is brilliant!

edit to add:
The really awesome thing about this is there was an incentive to have this done by a certain time. Millions of taxpayers money was given to hospitals if they complied by a certain time. The smaller hospitals had to contract the large hospitals.

This bill pads the pockets of pharmaceuticals, hospitals and insurance companies, it does nothing to lower costs, in fact it will increase costs and now that the SCOTUS has ruled it won't cover everyone either.

ginwilly said:

sorry london but if you don't understand why people hire CPAs you have no business talking business.
On top of that, you were really rude about something you obviously are clueless about.

Taxes from the affordable care act began when it was passed, the coverage was postponed for 4 years so they could lie about the cost. I can't even pretend to tell you what all taxes are involved because it seems to be a moving target there were so many provisions added to get it passed. Part of my job is as a clinical consultant on the HITECH aspect of the bill so I'm only proficient in that area but those 200 some odd pages reference so many different laws and regulations that you'd have to read thousands of pages just to fully grasp those 200 so you can imagine what the rest of the 2700 boondoggle contains.

If he is not in a green field I have no doubt his taxes have gone up. I probably just wasted my time though because you think businesses should do their own taxes and most likely applauded a health care bill because they told you what it was when even they didn't read it.

There is actually a provision in the bill that if your EMR is DOS based you must use password complexity then goes on to spell out it MUST be in this format NAAAAAA. So instead of fFq!129**B we have to change our password (company wide) to something like 1summer. Central planning is brilliant!

edit to add:
The really awesome thing about this is there was an incentive to have this done by a certain time. Millions of taxpayers money was given to hospitals if they complied by a certain time. The smaller hospitals had to contract the large hospitals.

This bill pads the pockets of pharmaceuticals, hospitals and insurance companies, it does nothing to lower costs, in fact it will increase costs and now that the SCOTUS has ruled it won't cover everyone either.

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I hire CPA to do my taxes as well..I just make sure I understand WTF is going on. You not going to tell me I'm losing profits due to taxes and not explain how so..Keep your BS to the FOX crew

beenthere said:

Do you think this shit up while you're stoned?
Your statement demonstrates just how ignorant you are on the issue, you couldn't have got it more wrong.
It's really a shame that people like you are even able to vote!

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so person A goes to company X and asks for a job. company X says "sure, we'll give you a job. but you have to sign this W4 form so the government can tax you!"

person A voluntarily agrees to sign the W4 and be taxed. then he gets on the internet and claims taxation is theft.

at what point did someone have a gun to person A's head forcing them to sign that W4?

add some nitrogen.

althor said:

More than anything it has been concerns over what will happen. My taxes increased during Obama, and every other small business owner I know agrees that their's increased as well. We have all been worried about what the AFA would do, which scares owners from hiring employees when we arent sure what our responsibilities will be. The stock market has been fluctuating so much that it also adds concerns. The stock market fluctuations are direct results of what is happening/not happening in Congress. Still wondering about whats going to happen with the Bush Tax cuts. If my taxes are about to jump up 10%, I cant afford to hire employees. So we are stuck in a stasis with no clear vision whatsoever in what the future holds.

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perhaps if you read what's in the ACA, you wouldn't be so riddled with uncertainty in your imaginary business.

taxes have not gone up under obama, and there is no apostrophe in "theirs". ever.

this is the internet, where people who can't even spell simple words correctly claim to own businesses. grand.

I. President Obama Has Already Signed Into Law Eight Separate Small Business Tax Cuts: In the Recovery Act and subsequent legislation in 2009 and 2010, the President signed the following eight small business tax cuts into law:

1. A New Small Business Health Care Tax Credit
2. A New Tax Credit for Hiring Unemployed Workers
3. Bonus Depreciation Tax Incentives to Support New Investment
4. 75% Exclusion of Small Business Capital Gains
5. Expansion of Limits on Small Business Expensing
6. Five-Year Carryback of Net Operating Losses
7. Reduction of the Built-In Gains Holding Period for Small Businesses from 10 to 7 Years to Allow Small Business Greater Flexibility in Their Investments
8. Temporary Small Business Estimated Tax Payment Relief to Allow Small Businesses to Keep Needed Cash on Hand

II. The President Intends to Sign a Small Business Jobs Bill With Another Eight Tax Cuts Benefitting Millions of Small Businesses: For weeks, Republicans have been stalling progress of a Small Business Jobs Bill that would provide additional tax relief for millions of small businesses, including the following eight tax cuts:

1. Zero Capital Gains Taxes on Key Investments in Small Businesses:
2. The Highest Small Business Expensing Limit Ever– Up to $500,000
3. An Extension of 50% Bonus Depreciation
4. A New Deduction for Health Care Expenses for the Self-Employed
5. ax Relief and Simplification for Cell Phone Deductions
6. An Increase in The Deduction for Entrepreneurs’ Start-Up Expenses
7. A Five-Year Carryback Of General Business Credits
8. Limitations on Penalties for Errors in Tax Reporting That Disproportionately Affect Small Business

III. President Obama is Proposing Tax Cuts for Millions of Real Small Businesses, While Republicans Are Using Pretext of Helping Small Business to Fight for An Average of $100,000 in Tax Cuts for Those with Incomes Over $1 Million

• The President’s Eight New Small Business Tax Cuts Would Directly Help Millions of Real Small Businesses:
  • Make 4.5 million small businesses and individuals eligible to increase the amount of investments they can write off
  • Extend bonus depreciation for 2 million businesses, small and large
  • Make investments in 1 million small businesses eligible for zero capital gains taxes
  • Allow 2 million self-employed to receive a deduction for health insurance costs on self-employment taxes
  • Enable virtually all small business owners to more easily receive a deduction for their use of cell phones
• While Republicans Claim that Their Push for High Income Tax Relief is Motivated by Concern for Small Business, 84% of the Tax Relief Goes to Those Making Over $1 Million: Republicans are holding middle class tax cuts hostage to borrow $700 billion to pay for tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% of earners. While they claim this effort is would help entrepreneurs and small businesses, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, 84% of the tax relief would go to taxpayers with incomes of over $1 million.
• The High Income Taxpayers They Are Fighting to Get Tax Relief For Are Hardly What Most Americans Think of as Small Businesses: While Congressional Republicans’ rhetoric would imply they are fighting for start-ups, mom-and-pop store owners and aspiring entrepreneurs, they count as “small businesses” making “small business income” any and all high income taxpayers with any type of partnership income, sole proprietor income, or S corporation income. Thus, under their definition, the following are all counted as small businesses:
  • Each partner of a major corporate law firm
  • Billionaire hedge fund managers
  • Over 50% of the top 400 taxpayers with the highest adjusted gross income, according to the IRS – a group that averaged $344 million each in income in 2007

The Small Business Jobs Bill: Providing Tax Relief to Millions of Small Businesses
The President has called on Congress to pass a strong Small Business Jobs Bill so that millions of small businesses can get the tax relief and access to credit that they need to expand, grow and hire. Included in the Small Business Jobs Bill are the following eight tax cuts:

1. Zero Taxes on Capital Gains from Key Small Business Investments: Under the Recovery Act, 75 percent of capital gains on key small business investments were excluded from taxes. The Senate Small Business Jobs Bill temporarily puts in place for 2010 a provision called for by the President – elimination of all capital gains taxes on these investments. Key investments in 1 million small businesses would be eligible for this tax cut.
2. Extension and Expansion of Small Businesses’ Ability to Immediately Expense Capital Investments: The bill temporarily increases for 2010 and 2011 the amount of investments in new plants or equipment that 4.5 million small businesses would be eligible to immediately write off to $500,000 – its highest limit ever – while raising the level of investments at which the write-off phases out to $2 million.
3. Extension of 50% Bonus Depreciation: The bill extends through 2010– as the President proposed in his budget – a Recovery Act provision for 50 percent “bonus depreciation” for 2 million businesses, large and small, providing them with incentives to invest in plants and equipment by accelerating the rate at which they can deduct capital expenditures.
4. A New Deduction of Health Insurance Costs for Self-Employed: The bill would allow 2 million self-employed to deduct the cost of health insurance in 2010 for themselves and their family members in calculating their self-employment taxes. This provision is estimated to provide over $1.9 billion in tax cuts for these entrepreneurs.
5. Tax Relief and Simplification for Cell Phone Deductions: The bill would change tax rules so that the use of cell phones can be deducted without burdensome extra documentation – making it easier for virtually every small business in America to receive deductions that they are entitled to.
6. An Increase in the Deduction for Entrepreneurs’ Start-Up Expenses: The bill would temporarily increase in 2010 the amount of start-up expenditures entrepreneurs can deduct from their taxes from $5,000 to $10,000 (with a phase-out threshold of $60,000 in expenditures), offering an immediate incentive for someone with a new business idea to invest in starting up a new small business.
7. A Five-Year Carryback Of General Business Credits: The bill would allow certain small businesses to “carry back” their general business credits to offset five years of taxes – providing them with an instant tax break – while also allowing these credits to offset the Alternative Minimum Tax, reducing taxes for these small businesses.
8. Limitations on Penalties for Errors in Tax Reporting That Disproportionately Affect Small Business: The bill would change the penalty for failing to report certain tax transactions from a fixed dollar amount – which was criticized for imposing a larger penalty on small businesses – to a percentage of the tax benefits from the transaction.

Lending Support to Small Businesses Still Struggling to Access the Credit They Need to Expand and Hire: With many creditworthy small businesses still struggling to get the credit they need to grow, the Small Business Jobs Bill would also:

• Create a new $30 billion Small Business Lending Fund
• Establish a State Small Business Credit Initiative to strengthen state programs that support private-sector lending to small businesses
• Extend successful Recovery Act provisions raising SBA loan guarantees and eliminating fees
• Double the maximum size of most SBA loans

londonfog said:

so you saying that you basically clueless about your money and trust someone else to manage it for you. Now your income stays the same but your taxes are up 1k and you are still clueless to why....got it. I guess you are a new breed of businessman

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not at all, he is old school. lemonade stands are the original gangster of all businesses.