If Mary Jane was legall in the U.S...................this probably wouldn't happen in

NnthStTrls

Well-Known Member
Mexico.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/37-bodies-dumped-mexico-highway-officials-135904939.html



Mexican police said Sunday they had found the dumped and decapitated bodies of 49 people, probably killed in drug violence, whose hands had been cut off to prevent fingerprint identification.

The mutilated corpses were discovered in black plastic bags close to the northern city of Monterrey, 180 kilometers (110 miles) from the US border.

Jorge Domene, a public safety spokesman for the state of Nuevo Leon, said the victims comprised 43 men and six women and the bodies had been split into their four limbs and stacked up at the roadside.

The find came just days after police discovered the dismembered, decapitated bodies of 18 people in two abandoned vehicles in western Mexico, in what appeared to be a revenge killing involving powerful drug gangs.

Just a few days earlier, there were 23 killings in the city of Nuevo Laredo, in Tamaulipas state which borders the United States, comprising nine people found hanging from a bridge and 14 others that had been decapitated.

Adrian de la Garza, a prosecutor in Nuevo Leon state, said some of the bodies in Sunday's shocking find were naked and the hands had been cut off, though forensic experts were collecting DNA samples.

A note was found at the scene in which the Zetas -- a gang set up by ex-commandos that deserted in the 1990s -- claimed responsibility.

Initial investigations indicate that the victims were killed up to 48 hours ago in a different location, having likely been transported by truck to where they were found.

Suspected drug gang violence has risen across the country this month, with scores of deaths attributed to massacres and clashes with security forces.

Authorities have blamed much of the deadly violence on battles between the Zetas and groups allied to the Sinaloa Federation of Mexico's most wanted drug lord, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

The state of Veracruz has become a battleground between the Zetas and Guzman's Sinaloa grouping, and journalists have also been targeted.

Last week, the dismembered bodies of three photographers and a news company employee were found, wrapped in plastic bags, in a canal in the metropolitan area of Veracruz, a port city on the Gulf of Mexico.

Several days earlier the Veracruz state correspondent of the national weekly news magazine Proceso was found strangled in her home.

More than 50,000 people have been killed in drug-related violence since President Felipe Calderon launched an all-out war against the nation's drug gangs on taking office in December 2006.
 

Capt. Stickyfingers

Well-Known Member
Not specifically over weed, but it's a part of it. The weed funds the cartels. Wtf, Mexicans are turning crazy like the Arabs. Decapitations? Wtf. That's some third world shit. They must be reading the Al Qaeda handbooks. How long until the suicide bombers show up?
 

Winter Woman

Well-Known Member
I don't know a single soul who buys Mexican smoke, not one. It might be a part of the equation but it's definitely smaller than back a few decades.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
They aren't killing over weed.
Believe it or not, marijuana still makes up a major portion of the gross profits of the Mexican drug cartels, and by many estimates, it makes up half or more than half of their profits.

You may not know anyone who is smoking it, but that's probaby just a function of where you are located. Not only are there plenty who do buy it, there are still parts of the country where cheapie Mexican schwagg is still the predominant type of weed available on the black market.

The killing is to eliminate competition, protect turf, and eliminate/intimidate law enforcement and civilians. Yeah, they're killing "over money", not "over weed" but given how much money is involved in the marijuana trade, this is basically just semantics.
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
I would imagine that if weed were legal or decriminalized with the federal government, many states would maintain prohibition (ie. Texas). Sadly, it will be a long time until this kind of activity stops.

The positive way to look at this is that non-violent growers, legal and otherwise, are probably saving innocent lives by opting out of international drug trade.

Save lives, weaken the cartels-- grow for your friends and family.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
"If Marijuana were legal, this wouldn't happen"
That's hard to say for sure, and actually I doubt that its true.

With marijuana making up a significant proportion of drug cartel profits (if not an absolute majority), it probably *IS* fair to say that the cartels would be quite a bit weaker if demand for their marijuana were greatly weakened by decriminalization/legalization in the USA. Less money flowing into the cartels would mean less power, less guns, etc.

Note that its not absolutely clear that legalization in part or in all of the USA would entirely shut down the Mexican marijuana market. In fact, it probably wouldn't. The cartels would probably still be smuggling in marijuana, just probably in lower quantity, and at somewhat lower legal risk. Perhaps legalization might just turn these criminals into "honest" exporters.

But no matter what the effect of a purely hypothetical (and at this time not politically likely) American cannabis legalization, with the Mexican cartels deriving half their profits from amphetamine manufacturing and trafficking, cocaine trafficking, and other illegal activities, they still wouldn't be entirely shut down.

If anything, a "cash squeeze" caused by reduced cannabis profits might *INCREASE* competition, and thereby INCREASE violence, if only for a short time.
 

bowlfullofbliss

Well-Known Member
They seem to be killing each other in the cartels. I say let them keep at it, these are very bad people that love feeding Americans meth they make, so fuck them.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
I would imagine that if weed were legal or decriminalized with the federal government, many states would maintain prohibition (ie. Texas). Sadly, it will be a long time until this kind of activity stops.
Agreeing with this entirely, the analysis here is fairly complicated.

I wouldn't anticipate any sort of Federal decriminalization initiative to succeed until an overt majority of States (or at least a significant plurality, exceeding 20 states) decriminalized at a State level first. If individual States can't legalize in their own backyards, so to speak, why are their representatives going to push for national legalization?

And of course, there will be State holdouts. Texas won't be in that first 20 to decriminalize, but I actually don't think Texas (with its high and growing Mexican population and proximity to Mexico) would be the last hold-out either.

Remember there are still States where *ALCOHOL* is partly restricted at local level within individual States (eg Tennessee, Utah, etc). These socially conservative states probably won't move to legalize cannabis in the foreseeable future, regardless of what happens on a National level.

The question is, if cannabis were legalized on a Federal level, and in some States, to what extent would *interstate* smuggling of cannabis (eg from Oregon to Utah), displace international smuggling from Mexico?

Again, impossible to know without knowing what exactly "legalization" entailed. I don't think anyone. . .even the most ardent proponents of legalization. . .thinks that ANY state is going to go back to a pre 1930s model, where like tomatoes, anyone could grow, possess, or sell as much cannabis as they liked without legal consequence.

Even if cannabis were legal in the USA, that still wouldn't make it unprofitable for Mexican farmers to grow it, and smuggle it in. It comes down to pricing, which comes down to what sort of domestic supply would be available after legalization, and what sort of demand (ie what would legalization do to demand?).

A positive way to look at this is that non-violent growers, legal and otherwise, are probably saving innocent lives by opting out of international drug trade.
At best, this can only be true to the extent that domestic growing displaces international/Mexican growing.

But note that decades ago, when there was probably MORE cannabis smuggling in from Mexico (or at least still a hell of a lot of it), there was LESS associated violence.

I think most of the violence is associated with other economic/social/political breakdown within Mexico. Until Mexico can beef up its own economy, and impose some true law and order, the violence won't stop.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
They seem to be killing each other in the cartels. I say let them keep at it, these are very bad people that love feeding Americans meth they make, so fuck them.
I don't think anyone really cries over cartel members shooting each other.

The problem is that plenty of the victims aren't cartel members. The cartels kill any law enforcement, military, politicians, or even popular figures who get in their way.

They have killed random Mexican people in purely terrorist acts of intimidation.
 

BA142

Well-Known Member
I was under the impression that meth was the cartels new big drug....maybe I just watch too much Breaking Bad :dunce:
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone. . .even the most ardent proponents of legalization. . .thinks that ANY state is going to go back to a pre 1930s model, where like tomatoes, anyone could grow, possess, or sell as much cannabis as they liked without legal consequence.
Sadly, even selling tomatoes is starting to have legal consequences. The USDA has been coming down hard on family farms that want to sell their produce at roadside stands.

http://www.triplepundit.com/2012/05/fighting-family-farms-better-food-supply/

Of course, your point is well taken that the stigma of marijuana has been imbedded deeply in our social and legal structure. I only add that excessive regulation has a life of its own in this country. As-of-right marijuana has to face not only bias against the herb, but also a predisposition to regulate and control-- particularly when there is money to be made.

But note that decades ago, when there was probably MORE cannabis smuggling in from Mexico (or at least still a hell of a lot of it), there was LESS associated violence.

I think most of the violence is associated with other economic/social/political breakdown within Mexico. Until Mexico can beef up its own economy, and impose some true law and order, the violence won't stop.
I personally believe that the increased violence has less to do with a social/political breakdown in Mexico than violence responding to violence. Send paramilitary troups in to break up any illegal activity, and the criminals will become much more violent with each other and with the public at large.
 

psari

Well-Known Member
They seem to be killing each other in the cartels. I say let them keep at it, these are very bad people that love feeding Americans meth they make, so fuck them.
Dont forget they've (the cartels and our feeding the drug war on both sides of the fence) gotten this to the point most of us cannot/will not travel into non-mega-populated areas there anymore. Anyone seen as a threat or potential leverage point (ransoms etc) is fair game.

There's a ton of beautiful places to be seen in the interior etc. Unlike some screwed up places in the world, the randomness of their turf war doesn't provide a good balance to avoid it.


I miss the old farms. Oh well. Times change and all that. Just wish it hadn't gotten to this point. This may not wind up where we want it.


Probably should clarify that, tipping points of the violence can go both ways with our modern zealot approaches. Previous prohibition the violence called for rational repeal. A spill over the border on any significant level could just escalate things. For instance, the US has already proved this level of insanity: We lose a couple of thousand of people in a plane bombing ... Response? Spend trillions and kill tens of thousands worldwide pushing back in response (all conspiracy theories and NWO crap besides the point.)
 

EROsain

Active Member
that would only stop happening if every thing got legalized , and still ppl would find another reason :(
 

Winter Woman

Well-Known Member
Believe it or not, marijuana still makes up a major portion of the gross profits of the Mexican drug cartels, and by many estimates, it makes up half or more than half of their profits.

You may not know anyone who is smoking it, but that's probaby just a function of where you are located. Not only are there plenty who do buy it, there are still parts of the country where cheapie Mexican schwagg is still the predominant type of weed available on the black market.

The killing is to eliminate competition, protect turf, and eliminate/intimidate law enforcement and civilians. Yeah, they're killing "over money", not "over weed" but given how much money is involved in the marijuana trade, this is basically just semantics.
I had no idea that it was still half the trade. I thought smaller more expensive drugs had taken over.

On another note I can't imagine smoking Mexican ever again. Nasty, nasty stuff.
 
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