ICE WAX (bubble hash) with Matt Rize

kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Mass Medicinals said:
Thanks for the reply.

We did our first ice water extraction run. It was with frozen trim and a few buds. The total weight was between 200-300 grams of fresh frozen.

We started with too much ice not enough water. And ran with far too many bags. Since it is for personal we were okay with some impurities. And we were not gentle with the mixing. We are not going to re-use the water, but we are going to do a second filter run on the water collected.

We decided on a work bag (220microns) and then 3 catcher bags (90, 45 and 25 microns).

We have plants that are going to be harvested this week. Majority of the plant is not mature, so we may decide to turn the entire outdoor plants into hash. So that should be a lot of work, and hopefully a lot of end product too.
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Using the multiple bags can be a pain in the ass for sure, but it's very well worth it. Is the 90µ bag the first one you're pouring the water through? If so you're limiting the overall quality of your hash. Resin heads are typically at around the 90µ range, give or take. This is why the 90µ bag is typically the "money" bag as it will collect pure resin more often than not. Depending on the strain/genetics and the maturity of the plant either your 120µ or 73µ will be a close second in quality, although I've had a handful of runs where my 73µ is the best and the 90µ is second best. It depends on the strain/maturity of the flower you're running, but a good rule of thumb to go by is that your 90µ or 73µ bags will produce the best quality because they will be nothing but resin glands.

You want to use most, if not all of the bags in your kit though otherwise you will never get the coveted full melt hash. This is because without all the bags above 90µ, you have nothing to prevent impurities normally caught by the 180µ-120µ bags from going into your 90µ batch. I use all 8 bags in my kit, it's a bitch for sure but the end result is more than worth the extra effort. I've been messing with various forms of concentrates for well over 5 years now and still have a strong preference for BHO for a variety of different reasons. That being said, in my 12+ years of smoking full melt is the absolute best thing you can smoke and it isn't even a contest. Sure the potency is nice, but the flavor is something nothing else can even hope to hold a candle to. If I may, allow me to give a run down as to the function of the various bags and the typical results I get from them. It is my hope that it will provide insight as to why using all of the bags is important.

220µ = work bag
180µ = impurities, typically chlorophyll and dirt. Usually cooking grade, at best.
120µ = mid grade hash typically, this bag holds all the glands too large to flow through into the 90µ bags and below. Not so bad that it's cooking grade, but typically not full melt either. Though I have had strains that produce full melt in this bag, it's quite rare.
90µ = the money bag. This typically will be what produces your full melt, assuming you're using all of your bags. The 90µ will be nothing but resin glands for the most part. Whatever the 90µ doesn't catch will go into the 73µ bag.
73µ = another money bag. If your 90µ doesn't produce full melt, this one likely will. Depends on the strain/maturity which effects the size of the glands. In my experience, this is typically a close second to the 90µ bag but can be better depending on the strain.
45µ = more cooking grade, this consists glands too small to stay in the 90µ/73µ bags as well as some more dirt and dust. This is the stuff you typically see for ~$10/g at a dispensary.
25µ = dust/trash

If you consider the above information about the various sized bags, you can start to see why using all of them is important. By only using 90, 45, and 25µ bags, the quality is effected in a negative way. Doing it that way will not give you full melt because your 90µ doesn't actually consist of only 90µ but is catching everything above it too. This means that you will have chlorophyll and dirt in your 90µ batch, I highly recommend at least adding the 120µ bag to the equation and take note of the difference in quality of your other bags.

Even if you do everything perfectly, don't expect good yields. 5% yield is about average for people first starting out, even those that have things dialed in and done professionally typically see ~10% yields. I've seen some people get close to the 15% range, but it's very few and far between. This is why the price of full melt hash hasn't really dropped like everything else has over the years, because even when things are done perfectly you're still looking at around a 10% yield and it can be quite labor intensive. Especially over a commercial scale. As far as I know, true full melt is still fetching $50-$60/g at dispensaries. The only thing better would be a 95% resin gland dry sift, that right there is an art and the highest quality dry sift is capable of commanding a high price.

Sorry for the wall, but I hope it was useful to you in some way.
 
Mass Medicinals

Mass Medicinals

Well-Known Member
I think that's amazing info. We're okay with 3 levels, as it's not for sale. Just personal consumption. And although the purest of the pure sounds nice. The effort of going through all those bags, isn't worth it for us at the moment.

This will be for when we're aiming just a bit higher then where we are now. :D
 
Warpedpassage

Warpedpassage

Well-Known Member
Have any of the members here had the chance to try fresh frozen and drying in freeze dryer? Im looking for someone that has hands on experience with these
freeze dryers. From my understanding the freezer gets down to -50 to -30, and the moisture is sublimated off. From what i have gathered they also have heated trays. My question is are the trays heating up during what they call the initial period of 12 hours of drying time, or do they heat up during the last 12 hours of dry.

I will never be able to afford one of freeze dryers, also dont really need it for tiny amounts i process for myself. Thinking about rigging a diy. Just trying to gather some details on how these things operate.

Any help is of course greatly appreciated.
 
Hawoodrose

Hawoodrose

Well-Known Member
Hey what's up RIU,

I will show you today some iceolator i made with the trim of the Sour Tangie outdoor 2017. I love that strain with his orange and citrus diesel note. The iceolator is like a fruit, really good to smoke !

I change a little bit the way i work, before launch de bubble machine, i wait 15 min with the trim inside the cold water, like that all of the trim is rehydrated, and then you have less contaminant. And now i wash the bubblehash in the bag with a water jet. I'm really happy with the result.



25 micron:

After drying, i press the hash with a bottle of water filled with hot water and i finish by hand. It's a long process but i like the end result. Taste ans smell is like the weed.

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70 micron:

I do the same, the 70 is more odorous and more tasty, i keep it preciously. I use the 120 screen too, but i have something nice inside only with the Jack Herer.

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V

vega_dro

Member
SenorBrownWater said:
yay! finished the thread...i took notes...just what i thought might help me later...
ill paste them here....
hope to help others...and matt not have to reHASH it over and over....

here are my notes: (all copy pasta not my words)
[video=youtube_share;e_wlN4cSmbY]
[/video]


I'll start with tips for using the BubbleNowXL:
-Wrap that b*tch with some kind of insulation. Crucial design flaw. An easy fix is to wrap your machine with one of those car window sun blocks, the shiny 'metal' looking ones.
-Temperature of tap water varies greatly, as I learned from a brewer. Something to keep in mind for several reasons.
-Store bought ice sucks. I have a whole article on that, soon to be posted.
-Temperature of the air affects the overall efficiency. Bubble early or late when it is hot out. Or bubble indoors and keep it cool.
-NEVER overfill the work bag, worst move ever. 3/4 full or less.
-The goal is to perform the spinning agitation at as cold of a temperature as possible. Start with ice in the machine, fill the bag with layers of ice/trim, zip and double knot, more ice. Now add water, but only about half way up. Next, turn the machine on, then slowly add more water until the contents barely begin to spin. You can help the bag find it's home in the ice/water mixture and the machine does the rest.
-Don't be afraid to take the screw out that holds the spinning disk in place. Clean down there once and a while.


TO LOAD THE MACHINE:
-I load the machine with 20 lbs of ice to begin.
-Then I place the work bag on top of that.
-In the work bag goes the trim and ice.
-Layered ice/trim/ice. I like to run about half and half, and would love to hear what you guys do for this step.
-Fill the work bag 3/4 or less. And about half full if using dry trim, as it will expand when rehydrated.
-Double knot the bag closed, or more, worst mess ever if it opens.
-Add more ice, on top and the sides of the work bag.
-Do not fill the machine too miuch or the separation will not be efficient. Leave at least 6 inches at the top.
-Sometimes I let it sit at this point, if the trim is not frozen.
-Then add water, not enough to see it, that is the trick. You will have enough water just before you see it Rize up through the ice.
-Let it soak, just a little if wet/frozen trim. 20+ minutes for dry trim.
-Agitate 20-30 minutes, depends on many factors. I usually just watch an episode of the Simpsons and call it good.
-Drain... see: Draining the Machine post tba

To allow my wet hash to dry:
1) I lay it out as-is overnight, sometimes 24 hours if it is cold out.
2) I grate it to a sand texture with my micro-plane, used ONLY for this purpose. Consider this a disposable tool that needs to be replaced if you are a big hash maker. They can't be sharpened like knives/scissors.
3) I lay this wet sandy bubble hash out on a baking sheet used ONLY for this purpose. I use a non-stick, so no metal for the next step.
4) I let it slowly dry, covered with a silk screen, and occasionally 'cut' it up with a card to let it dry from all sides.
5) As soon as it is dry it goes into my hash curing jar.


Originally Posted by RPsmoke420 View Post
Do you dry and cure while the hash is separated? Do you press your hash after the cure? How long of a cure? Or do you prefer unpressed? Just curious. Also a little confused... after you remove hash from the bags... you place the glob on the drying screen... is that how you leave it over night? Or do you break it up first? I immidiately begin breaking the hash down into sand-like texture out of fear of water/mold/funk.
Great questions.
I dry the blob as-is overnight, mold/mildew won't grow that fast on bubble that is exposed. By the next day the blob has completely changed texture, and at this point I can already judge the overall qualities of the hash. I can judge the purity by color, which is related to my separation process. I can also judge how melty the hash will be when cured, which mostly depends on strain an if you did a wet or dry trim and separation. By the next day this oily mass doesn't want to crumble, it has melted into a solid. This allows me to really grate the hash into a powder (because it won't crumble), which ensures 100% mold/mildew free bubble hash... and frankly the hashes get the best colors from this drying method.

My blackberry hash picts show both drying methods together. The brown candy is simply broken up by hand, the gold powder was grated, then combined to make this image. That was my secret, but now it is everyones


Now I do 15 to 30 minutes of "soft" setting agitation. I used to do an hour. Fresh trim gets agitated slightly longer than the dry.

Some popular full melt varieties are sour d, blackberry kush, og, blue dream.


Updates include:
using more bags: 220 (work), 220, 190, 160, 120, 73, 45
using no ice in the work bag (for machines)
using all RO water
using (chlorine free) paper towels instead of cloth to wick out the water after collection

33 degrees F

Hash does not need curing to be hash, that is only for old school contaminated hash. Pure extracts can be smoked about 24 hours after being made, although they continue to cure over a couple weeks. After about 6 months the potency actually goes down as THC is converted to CBN.

1. After scooping your hash out of your bag and putting it on your screen do you not press any of the water out at all? Just leave it for 12-24 hours?
CORRECT
2. What's the point of the silk screen over the top of the drying pan, just to keep unwanted things like dust and hair out?
CORRECT
3. When you say at last it goes into your curing jar does that mean you cure it similar to herb? IE fill your jar up 7/8's full and burp 1-2 times a day as needed? Or just putting it in a container waiting for it's time to be smoked?
CORRECT, But I don't burp. I fill the jars all the way full and leave them closed.

Stick it in your pocket for a bit.. pull it and let cool. POOF. taffy
the pocket cure. 100 F is a very safe temperature for cannabis resins. You won't drive off or alter flavor at such a low temp.

and IMO, pressing hash isn't a bad thing, just let it cure in powdered form first, and press it by hand, using only the heat of your hands.... prevents oxidation and probably is better in the long term IMO.


hey Matt i made some hash today using dry ice, don't know if you like the method, personally with my cheap set of bubble bags, i got really nice quality using the 73 micron, and then finishing with the 120 bag....u like???

Pocket cure = putting it in a jar in your pocket while you work for a day, the body heat will melt it together and make it easily dabbable

With fresh frozen it goes from the trim table to the freezer tray (exposed to air in the freezer during this stage) for 2-3 hours till flash frozen, then into the ziploc for longer storage or to free up space for the next tower o' fresh to flash
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just want to thank you for the time to gather this info up together ...
Bless
 
TreeFiddy350

TreeFiddy350

Well-Known Member
We should start a new/ updated thread because nobody is gonna go through 134 pages of comments (well not me lol) to find the info.
Just an idea :)
 
athomegrowing

athomegrowing

Well-Known Member
TreeFiddy350 said:
I feel like the information would drastically change over the last 5+ years. Don’t you? (I’m very uneducated in this area. Slowly starting to dabble in it... no pun intended lol)
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It doesn't, which is the point you'll come to after reading. You'll also have gained valuable wisdom in the process, and will be ahead of your peers who also refuse to read.
 
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