I need a lawyer

Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
So.... an interesting development...

My boss showed up at my front door yesterday morning to deliver a letter from the HR exec.

The letter is dated Dec 7 (and I received it on the 18th!!??), which is exactly 7 days after the day my employer filed the response to my HRC complaint. Although it does not admit fault in any way, it does contain several passages that completely contradict statements made in the complaint response, as well as several other glaring inconsistencies. The bottom line though, is that it states that they no longer believe me to be a drug abuser and it requests that I provide medical evidence of my claims. This comes 12 weeks after my fourth offer to provide those documents. It also asks me to fill out a form with questions about my medical cannabis, as well as forward a similar form to my doctor for completion. Finally, it gives me shit about the GoFundMe page and asks me to take it down.

After spending the entire afternoon yesterday writing a response, addressing all of the contradictions, it finally dawned on me that the letter basically sets out conditions that must be met before I return to work, without actually stating so directly. Maybe they are only considering the possibility, but if that's the case they have no choice now, as the letter completely undoes their legal position, as stated in their complaint response.

I was completely unprepared for this. I don't know what to think.

First question... what happened between Nov 29 and Dec 7 that made them do a 180? It can't be that they just suddenly realized, after filing the complaint response, that they have absolutely zero legal ground to stand on to justify their actions?

Is it just bait for any one of several sinister corporate plots? IE: take him back and then hassle him till he quits; take him back and promote him to position he will fail miserably at then fire him for incompetence; etc... I've seen them all.

What do I do? Respond with my conditions for returning?

See a lawyer and go for broke... try and get all I can off them and walk away?

Fuck me.... confused.
 
Rusher

Rusher

Well-Known Member
I agree with @GroErr, and also I find it likely that they may have delayed in seeking counsel hoping you would be intimidated and simply fuck off out of their lives. Imagine this: they had hoped that the policies they have in place (or total lack) would prove too much of a stumbling block for you. Now that they see your resolve, they spoke with representation and all of a sudden the lawyer says ' uhhh, guys? Yeah, you're in the wrong here.'

Keep Pushing. It's not about revenge, it's about justice.
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
So.... an interesting development...

My boss showed up at my front door yesterday morning to deliver a letter from the HR exec.

The letter is dated Dec 7 (and I received it on the 18th!!??), which is exactly 7 days after the day my employer filed the response to my HRC complaint. Although it does not admit fault in any way, it does contain several passages that completely contradict statements made in the complaint response, as well as several other glaring inconsistencies. The bottom line though, is that it states that they no longer believe me to be a drug abuser and it requests that I provide medical evidence of my claims. This comes 12 weeks after my fourth offer to provide those documents. It also asks me to fill out a form with questions about my medical cannabis, as well as forward a similar form to my doctor for completion. Finally, it gives me shit about the GoFundMe page and asks me to take it down.

After spending the entire afternoon yesterday writing a response, addressing all of the contradictions, it finally dawned on me that the letter basically sets out conditions that must be met before I return to work, without actually stating so directly. Maybe they are only considering the possibility, but if that's the case they have no choice now, as the letter completely undoes their legal position, as stated in their complaint response.

I was completely unprepared for this. I don't know what to think.

First question... what happened between Nov 29 and Dec 7 that made them do a 180? It can't be that they just suddenly realized, after filing the complaint response, that they have absolutely zero legal ground to stand on to justify their actions?

Is it just bait for any one of several sinister corporate plots? IE: take him back and then hassle him till he quits; take him back and promote him to position he will fail miserably at then fire him for incompetence; etc... I've seen them all.

What do I do? Respond with my conditions for returning?

See a lawyer and go for broke... try and get all I can off them and walk away?

Fuck me.... confused.
Click to expand...
DO NOT RESPOND! They have just been advised by their lawyers that they fucked up and are in trouble. You have them scrambling. Do not do anything they requested, and do not take down your page. They are trying to get you to come back on THEIR terms, in order to stop the complaint, and then they'll turn around and lay you off to get rid of a 'trouble maker'. I would SERIOUSLY consider a consultation with an employment lawyer ASAP and take the letter to him/her. Showing up at your door was an attempt at intimidation and you need to file a complaint.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
The advice being given you is categorically bad.

You need to take everything you have to an attorney right now. Here's why:

If they offered you ANY relief (which clearly they have) and you refuse it, they can then claim in court with proof that they offered you relief and you refused it.

That, in and of itself, will render you without a claim at all.

If you reply to it yourself, you put yourself at a severe disadvantage because you don't know anything that you're actually entitled to under the law. That being the case, you can either sell yourself short or completely overstep your position and once again wind up with nothing or very little. Or worse.

The fact that they have a lawyer involved that knows what is or isn't legal trying to get you to sign off on an agreement and you are here on a cannabis message board getting your advice should tell you how bad your position really is and EXACTLY what you need to do.

Now. Not later.
 
TheRealDman

TheRealDman

Well-Known Member
VIANARCHRIS said:
DO NOT RESPOND! They have just been advised by their lawyers that they fucked up and are in trouble. You have them scrambling. Do not do anything they requested, and do not take down your page. They are trying to get you to come back on THEIR terms, in order to stop the complaint, and then they'll turn around and lay you off to get rid of a 'trouble maker'. I would SERIOUSLY consider a consultation with an employment lawyer ASAP and take the letter to him/her. Showing up at your door was an attempt at intimidation and you need to file a complaint.
Click to expand...
This right here!

Forward the letter to Human Rights peeps to add to the file. They will advise you how to proceed.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
The advice being given you is categorically bad.

You need to take everything you have to an attorney right now. Here's why:

If they offered you ANY relief (which clearly they have) and you refuse it, they can then claim in court with proof that they offered you relief and you refused it.

That, in and of itself, will render you without a claim at all.

If you reply to it yourself, you put yourself at a severe disadvantage because you don't know anything that you're actually entitled to under the law. That being the case, you can either sell yourself short or completely overstep your position and once again wind up with nothing or very little. Or worse.

The fact that they have a lawyer involved that knows what is or isn't legal trying to get you to sign off on an agreement and you are here on a cannabis message board getting your advice should tell you how bad your position really is and EXACTLY what you need to do.

Now. Not later.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what i was thinking, vaguely.


Well it seems that it's unanimous... get a lawyer.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
VIANARCHRIS said:
DO NOT RESPOND! They have just been advised by their lawyers that they fucked up and are in trouble. You have them scrambling. Do not do anything they requested, and do not take down your page. They are trying to get you to come back on THEIR terms, in order to stop the complaint, and then they'll turn around and lay you off to get rid of a 'trouble maker'. I would SERIOUSLY consider a consultation with an employment lawyer ASAP and take the letter to him/her. Showing up at your door was an attempt at intimidation and you need to file a complaint.
Click to expand...
I watch that happen. Take the employee back and harass him until he quits or just build a case to fire him. The other trick I've seen is to even promote the guy to a position he cant handle and then fire them for incompetence... I've seen it all...
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
they can then claim in court with proof that they offered you relief and you refused it.
Click to expand...
Not so. Although I advised him to get proper legal advice asap, he does not harm his case by not responding,imo. They have not admitted wrong, they have not offered compensation for his loss of income or harm to his reputation and they have demanded conditions be met in order to come back to work. It's no longer about what they want. He has done nothing wrong and is no longer employed by them, therefore he is not required to communicate with them. The fact that a company employee showed up at his door - most businesses and lawyers would use mail or a courier - smacks of intimidation and needs to be addressed. He will not find justice or assistance with his employer.
Gquebed is a smart guy and he'll figure things out 8-)
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
VIANARCHRIS said:
Not so. Although I advised him to get proper legal advice asap, he does not harm his case by not responding,imo.
Click to expand...
Your "opinion"?

I'm talking about FACT, pal.

His claim goes to shit if a judge hears they tried to give him relief and he flat out ignored it. That is litigation 101. They would at that point ask the judge to use arbitration and settle it that way, which he/she in all likelihood would. That, of course, would remove any input any lawyer of his after the fact would have on the case at all. It would be based on the offer made that was ignored.

Guess who is going to win in that scenario.

But keep on giving bad advice. When he gets completely screwed over, he'll have you to thank for it.

THEY know what they're doing.
I know what they're doing. I've seen it before.
YOU are completely clueless.
 
WHATFG

WHATFG

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Your "opinion"?

I'm talking about FACT, pal.

His claim goes to shit if a judge hears they tried to give him relief and he flat out ignored it. That is litigation 101. They would at that point ask the judge to use arbitration and settle it that way, which he/she in all likelihood would. That, of course, would remove any input any lawyer of his after the fact would have on the case at all. It would be based on the offer made that was ignored.

Guess who is going to win in that scenario.

But keep on giving bad advice. When he gets completely screwed over, he'll have you to thank for it.

THEY know what they're doing.
I know what they're doing. I've seen it before.
YOU are completely clueless.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm....you don't appear to be Canadian....and have you read the entire thread? There are rules to be followed when a company "lets you go". I believe they are an American company...lol...nobody hand delivers documents of this content.
 
TheRealDman

TheRealDman

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Your "opinion"?

I'm talking about FACT, pal.

His claim goes to shit if a judge hears they tried to give him relief and he flat out ignored it. That is litigation 101. They would at that point ask the judge to use arbitration and settle it that way, which he/she in all likelihood would. That, of course, would remove any input any lawyer of his after the fact would have on the case at all. It would be based on the offer made that was ignored.

Guess who is going to win in that scenario.

But keep on giving bad advice. When he gets completely screwed over, he'll have you to thank for it.

THEY know what they're doing.
I know what they're doing. I've seen it before.
YOU are completely clueless.
Click to expand...
Read the thread dude...he is no longer employed by them and the offer came after the fact. He’s already got a Human Rights complaint filed, and is also now seeking legal advice. Cool your jets and put your armchair attorney away. Some of here do know what we’re talking about!
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
I teach criminal justice. I think I'm more than a bit aware of what can happen. I quite literally see it several times per month.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
No. I observe, watch what happens and learn...something you obviously never do.

It's this simple:

His work is in the drivers seat in this entire thing. This is not something unique to Canada, it happens all across north America in jurisdictions where marijuana have been legalized in whole or in part (medicinally).

The problem is that most people seem to think that since it's legal that there is nothing your work can do about it.

They are wrong. Flat out. Full stop.

A workplace does not have to allow it if they so choose, regardless of legalization. To wit: Alcohol is legal. Does that mean you can drink on the job or come in smelling of or under the influence of alcohol?

Well, no. It doesn't. (Unless, of course, you're a wine taster or brew master or the like in which case it's actually part of your duties.) Anything that impairs you from your duties or puts others at risk is a terminating offense unless they knew IN ADVANCE of your condition and allowed you to proceed in your duties.

No company on earth would do that. He never told them anything. He hid it all until the accident. That is deception and is also grounds for termination before you even get to what happened.

So he felt compelled to file a complaint about his company after he had an accident, tested positive for marijuana and then things came to a point he no longer works for them. Let's review his case:
  • he tested positive for an impairing drug.
  • he never informed the company he was using marijuana - he hid that from them
  • he had an accident while that drug was in his system putting others at risk in what he himself admits was a "near miss"
  • at the time of the accident, he DID NOT HAVE HIS PAPERS - they were obtained after the fact
That's four strikes right there. That, in and of itself, is enough for him to lose his ass in court.

But since the formal complaint, the company has a lawyer that has sent an offer. Here is WHY they sent it:
  • If he ignores it, then they win by default. You're already behind the 8 ball on the facts as it is, so they are hoping like hell you just ignore it and go before the board. The board will then see the same exact information that is in this post, see him at fault, see him as completely unreasonable and that will be that.
  • If he accepts it, it all ends on their terms.
At this point, they can't lose.

That is why he needs to have an attorney respond to it. Period. End of story. Only then is he going to have any chance in hell of a level playing field.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Nope. Fact.

But you go on telling him what he wants to hear so he feels better. When he winds up completely fucked, he'll have you to thank for it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top