Hybrid DWC System!! Need Nutrient Advice (pics included)

Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
Hey all, I got a rather new setup going and I just got done with a grow and wasn't pleased with the results so I am trying to find ways to improve my crop so hopefully I can get some questions answered!!!

I am currently using an ebb and gro system to veg and flower in. I got 2 tents goin in my 2nd bedroom as shown below. I use 3.5 gallon buckets to veg in and 5 gallon to flower in. I water my flowering plants every 4 hours for 30 min and my veg every 6 hours for 1 hour.

I was kind of wondering if combining a DWC and bubbleponics method by putting air diffusers in each bucket and have them kick on with every watering. Then I will increase the time they are watered from 30 minutes to like a few hours or something.

Any suggestions to getting my crop to produce bigger more potent buds will be much appreciated. I was also wondering about nutrients, I am using the lucas formula through the whole grow and I feel that I will only get average dro doing this. Can I combine the lucas formula with other additives from advanced nutrients if I wanted to?? Will they work well together?

2011-10-19 21.46.38.jpg2011-10-19 21.46.24.jpg2011-10-19 21.46.14.jpg2011-10-19 21.43.05.jpg
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
The flowering plants are my current grow and are sort of experimental, the plants in veg are going to be my biggest grow yet. I've been studying LST training methods and different nute recipes but I honestly cant find the information Im looking for which is why I am creating this post!! please help!! O yeah and I got 2 600's in my flowering tent which is designed for around 8 flowering plants. I got one of them facing the other 4 plants for the extra light lol just fyi so no1 thinks my light is falling down!
 
S

s0high

Well-Known Member
You should still be getting acceptable bud from the lucas formula and your setup. Something else is amiss.

So the buckets drain in between feedings?
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Your flood cycles are too long. I flood for ~ 30 seconds. My nutes drain to an outboard rez with a small 1/4 OD, so nutes remain in the table/pod for roughly 5 minutes. My medium is lava rock as it drains quickly, yet retains small amounts of nutes in between cycles. The pockets in the lava keep roots from drying out between feed cycles. During lights on I cycle ~ 2-3 hours. Watch leaf tips. If they start burning then increase time between feed cycles. Also, do not use high ppm nute strength. During early veg maybe 3-400, at late grow and flower ~ 1300. During lights out plants are only fed ~ every 6 hours.

Flower Cycle: here you def need a pH tester. My pH increases > one full point every 24 hours. If you don't correct daily, your plants will get sick and your smoke will suck. Also dump and replace nutes every 7 days.

Check out my journal for pics.
 
lordjin

lordjin

Well-Known Member
Well let me begin by saying your grow pix look good to me.

I think what we need to ask first off is, just what is it about your crop that you found lacking? Potency? Taste? Overall Yield?

I think Petflora's advice is pretty spot on. In ebb flow, the oxygen is delivered through the pulling of the drain. It probably shouldn't be thought of as feeding with a constant oxygenated soak like DWC. I suppose a timer operated air stone synced to your flood period would help, but that should be viewed as a method for assisting the drain, not the method itself. I think there's also a risk of ruining your air pumps if the timers aren't perfectly in sync. If the timers get out of sync and the flood occurs before the air pump has a chance to turn on, the water will crawl up the inactive air line due to back pressure and destroy your air pump.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Your flood cycles are too long. I flood for ~ 30 seconds. My nutes drain to an outboard rez with a small 1/4 OD, so nutes remain in the table/pod for roughly 5 minutes. My medium is lava rock as it drains quickly, yet retains small amounts of nutes in between cycles. The pockets in the lava keep roots from drying out between feed cycles. During lights on I cycle ~ 2-3 hours. Watch leaf tips. If they start burning then increase time between feed cycles. Also, do not use high ppm nute strength. During early veg maybe 3-400, at late grow and flower ~ 1300. During lights out plants are only fed ~ every 6 hours.

Flower Cycle: here you def need a pH tester. My pH increases > one full point every 24 hours. If you don't correct daily, your plants will get sick and your smoke will suck. Also dump and replace nutes every 7 days.

Check out my journal for pics.
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Well I Have brand new HM EC and PH meters that I calibrate constantly. I keep my pH spot on at all times between 5.5 and 5.8. I use Glacier water I haul by 30 gallons at a time from the machine at the store and I have to haul like 90 gallons because of both of my rezzes so doing a rez change every 7 days is out lol I do one every 2 weeks but I always wash my rez with bleach water and detergent before I add back my shit. I use air diffusers not air stones for that micro bubble effect in my flower tent so my nutrients stay healthy longer than 7 days lol.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
lordjin said:
Well let me begin by saying your grow pix look good to me.

I think what we need to ask first off is, just what is it about your crop that you found lacking? Potency? Taste? Overall Yield?

I think Petflora's advice is pretty spot on. In ebb flow, the oxygen is delivered through the pulling of the drain. It probably shouldn't be thought of as feeding with a constant oxygenated soak like DWC. I suppose a timer operated air stone synced to your flood period would help, but that should be viewed as a method for assisting the drain, not the method itself. I think there's also a risk of ruining your air pumps if the timers aren't perfectly in sync. If the timers get out of sync and the flood occurs before the air pump has a chance to turn on, the water will crawl up the inactive air line due to back pressure and destroy your air pump.
Click to expand...
Well to answer your question about what I dislike about my crop is the overall yield potency and smell after they are dried lol. Around here we call the kind of shit I grow "work" which is basically average dro for the average street price ya know? When I started this little operation I was under the impression that If I did shit right I would come out with amazing nugs. I use top notch genetics and I feel my setup is capable of producing more and better weed than my last harvest. I am in week 4 of flower and my nugs are extremely small for week 4 in my opinion.

This is why I have been studying new nutrient formulas as I feel using a 2 part nutrient formula the whole way through has to be the most basic way of doing things and maybe a more complex nutrient formula will yield better results and potency which is what I want to find out. Im pretty sure 1 600w per 4 plants in that tent is adequate light but I have been thining about adding some vertical lights to hit the sides of the colas.

About the ebb and flow. Is 30 minutes really to long??? and if I added air "diffusers" to each bucket and did like 30 minute or what ever watering s and then drained for a few hour breather, wouldnt that be of some benefit I mean I herd that roots love bubbles and oxygen while being watered so the idea seems plausible.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
I have also been studying LST training like crazy for my yield problems lol. I want to get bigger better buds and LST seems like something to try as I use absolutely no training methods from start to finish in my grows because im such a beginner. I do have a question about LST if someone can answer me please!!! Lets say I got a plant in veg that hasnt been topped and I have the top tied down for the side branch growth as I have seen people do in my research. I know having to many branches means small popcorn buds with some decent colas but if you knock the top off before flower when you feel you have enough branches on that plant wont that make those branches grow bigger?? I havent seen anything on topping LST plants and it makes me wonder because plants keep producing branchs as the man top keeps growing and I would prefer to have like 10 or less good sized colas as opposed to like 30 small little SoG type colas LOOOL
 
lordjin

lordjin

Well-Known Member
Hijinxx said:
Well to answer your question about what I dislike about my crop is the overall yield potency and smell after they are dried lol. Around here we call the kind of shit I grow "work" which is basically average dro for the average street price ya know? When I started this little operation I was under the impression that If I did shit right I would come out with amazing nugs. I use top notch genetics and I feel my setup is capable of producing more and better weed than my last harvest. I am in week 4 of flower and my nugs are extremely small for week 4 in my opinion.

This is why I have been studying new nutrient formulas as I feel using a 2 part nutrient formula the whole way through has to be the most basic way of doing things and maybe a more complex nutrient formula will yield better results and potency which is what I want to find out. Im pretty sure 1 600w per 4 plants in that tent is adequate light but I have been thining about adding some vertical lights to hit the sides of the colas.

About the ebb and flow. Is 30 minutes really to long??? and if I added air "diffusers" to each bucket and did like 30 minute or what ever watering s and then drained for a few hour breather, wouldnt that be of some benefit I mean I herd that roots love bubbles and oxygen while being watered so the idea seems plausible.
Click to expand...
The idea of using bubblers to assist a flood/drain is very plausible. I do believe a number of folks here at RIU do it. Just be careful with syncing those timers. If you can, just to be safe, set the air stone timer to come on like five minutes before the flood starts.

It's sounds like you're not happy with your harvest overall. It's kind of hard to address your question with any kind of certainty or finality because there are so many factors involved with a grow system. But I will say the most basic answer when it comes to increasing bud quality and yield is increasing light. Another big factor is the strain you're growing. Some strains are stubborn yielders (OG Kush for example)... while others are more forgiving and yield more. What strain was it that you're disappointed with? You might want to look into securing a strain known for quality and yield.

Edit:

I doubt that leaving everything as is and switching nutes is gonna give you night and day improvement in yield / quality.
 
lordjin

lordjin

Well-Known Member
Hijinxx said:
I have also been studying LST training like crazy for my yield problems lol. I want to get bigger better buds and LST seems like something to try as I use absolutely no training methods from start to finish in my grows because im such a beginner. I do have a question about LST if someone can answer me please!!! Lets say I got a plant in veg that hasnt been topped and I have the top tied down for the side branch growth as I have seen people do in my research. I know having to many branches means small popcorn buds with some decent colas but if you knock the top off before flower when you feel you have enough branches on that plant wont that make those branches grow bigger?? I havent seen anything on topping LST plants and it makes me wonder because plants keep producing branchs as the man top keeps growing and I would prefer to have like 10 or less good sized colas as opposed to like 30 small little SoG type colas LOOOL
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You've completed a sizeable grow before, so you're not a complete noob.

Just think back to what you've seen of cannabis growing. The training process is pretty intuitive if you've watched how ganja grows before. There's no law agains mixing and matching techniques. Lots of clever growers top their scrogging plants. I prefer tying and have just started a dual technique of string tie assisted scrogging.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
lordjin said:
The idea of using bubblers to assist a flood/drain is very plausible. I do believe a number of folks here at RIU do it. Just be careful with syncing those timers. If you can, just to be safe, set the air stone timer to come on like five minutes before the flood starts.

It's sounds like you're not happy with your harvest overall. It's kind of hard to address your question with any kind of certainty or finality because there are so many factors involved with a grow system. But I will say the most basic answer when it comes to increasing bud quality and yield is increasing light. Another big factor is the strain you're growing. Some strains are stubborn yielders (OG Kush for example)... while others are more forgiving and yield more. What strain was it that you're disappointed with? You might want to look into securing a strain known for quality and yield.

Edit:

I doubt that leaving everything as is and switching nutes is gonna give you night and day improvement in yield / quality.
Click to expand...
HAHAHA that's just the thing, its embarrassing to admit it but I am growing a strain that is known for its high yield which is wonder woman from nirvana and is the highest yielding strain they offer lol!!!! Problem is, its week 4 and the buds are still relatively small and my last grow had a plant that showed the same characteristics and it turned out to only yield like 2 to 3 ounces which isn't horrible but still unacceptable. The fact I'm using no training methods to get every branch on the plant the light it needs to grow is one of my main problems because I'm growing 4 bushes sorta close together, the branches under the canopy are receiving no light what so ever ya know.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
So being as how I have 2 tents for veg and flower, I have 12 plants that are early in veg that should be ready to flower when those 4 are done in the next 4 or so weeks and I wanted to go with an advanced nutrient grow. I live in a hot climate and now that winter is around the corner and night time temps are in their 60's I want my next grow which is also going to be my largest grow to go smoothly and ultimately perfect. Some people argue that perfect is impossible to achiev with growing but yielding 4 or so ounces a plant of some weed that people dont see every day in my book thats as perfect as it gets.

I was thinking about going with an advanced nutrient grow with Sensi bloom A&B with Nirvana, Big bud, bud candy, and overdrive at the end followed by a final phase flush.

My question is, is it safe to veg plants with the lucas formula and use the formula above for flower????????
 
lordjin

lordjin

Well-Known Member
Hijinxx said:
HAHAHA that's just the thing, its embarrassing to admit it but I am growing a strain that is known for its high yield which is wonder woman from nirvana and is the highest yielding strain they offer lol!!!! Problem is, its week 4 and the buds are still relatively small and my last grow had a plant that showed the same characteristics and it turned out to only yield like 2 to 3 ounces which isn't horrible but still unacceptable. The fact I'm using no training methods to get every branch on the plant the light it needs to grow is one of my main problems because I'm growing 4 bushes sorta close together, the branches under the canopy are receiving no light what so ever ya know.
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I know. That's why I started laying my plants down like six grows ago.

When I first started, I was doing four plants and letting them grow straight up. I quickly learned that this was not the best way to do it. The plants turned into huge bushes, but there was crowding and the lower buds were fluff... So I know all about that.

I would cut down on the number of your plants and concentrate on growing fewer plants larger with training techniques. That'll improve your yield.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
lordjin said:
I know. That's why I started laying my plants down like six grows ago.

When I first started, I was doing four plants and letting them grow straight up. I quickly learned that this was not the best way to do it. The plants turned into huge bushes, but there was crowding and the lower buds were fluff... So I know all about that.

I would cut down on the number of your plants and concentrate on growing fewer plants larger with training techniques. That'll improve your yield.
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Well, I have my system designed for 4 plants on each side of the tent under that 600, if I used the LST method could I still do 4 on each side, the tent is rather big and 2 plants on each side doesn't really seem like the solution because there might be alot of wasted space ya know? I can also understand that leaving everything the same and changing the nutes probably wont change the yield but I think going from the plain lucas formula to that advanced nutrient formula I stated in my last post ( Sensi bloom A&B combined with nirvana, big bud, bud candy, over drive the last 2 weeks followed by a final phase flush) I think will increase the potency of my buds though. I want my buds to have a more distinct smell and taste ya know, I dont feel like the lucas formula can achieve that because these strains are pretty high quality and I know they have the potential to smell and taste different if the right nutes are used.
 
lordjin

lordjin

Well-Known Member
Hijinxx said:
Well, I have my system designed for 4 plants on each side of the tent under that 600, if I used the LST method could I still do 4 on each side, the tent is rather big and 2 plants on each side doesn't really seem like the solution because there might be alot of wasted space ya know? I can also understand that leaving everything the same and changing the nutes probably wont change the yield but I think going from the plain lucas formula to that advanced nutrient formula I stated in my last post ( Sensi bloom A&B combined with nirvana, big bud, bud candy, over drive the last 2 weeks followed by a final phase flush) I think will increase the potency of my buds though. I want my buds to have a more distinct smell and taste ya know, I dont feel like the lucas formula can achieve that because these strains are pretty high quality and I know they have the potential to smell and taste different if the right nutes are used.
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At the risk of having a bunch of AN haters swarm on me, I'll say that if you have that in your head... sure, why not try it?

I used GH for all my grows before this one, so I got pretty familiar with it. I never used the Lucas formula and sorta came up with my own.

I've seen good results, but am now using AN Sensi throughout as a comparison.

I will tell you that the AN Sensi Grow has produced the stinkiest veg I've ever smelled. Could it be because it's better than GH for marijuana? Why don't you try it for flower and we can compare notes.

edit:
And you can certainly devise a good train strategy for a four plant tent. It's just easier to focus when there are fewer plants to work with. And I'm never worried about too much space, so you have to consider that when you read any advice I give.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
lordjin said:
At the risk of having a bunch of AN haters swarm on me, I'll say that if you have that in your head... sure, why not try it?

I used GH for all my grows before this one, so I got pretty familiar with it. I never used the Lucas formula and sorta came up with my own.

I've seen good results, but am now using AN Sensi throughout as a comparison.

I will tell you that the AN Sensi Grow has produced the stinkiest veg I've ever smelled. Could it be because it's better than GH for marijuana? Why don't you try it for flower and we can compare notes.

edit:
And you can certainly devise a good train strategy for a four plant tent. It's just easier to focus when there are fewer plants to work with. And I'm never worried about too much space, so you have to consider that when you read any advice I give.
Click to expand...
Well, lemme just put this out there so you know my motive lol. I grow for profit, I pay my school loans with my profits and use it for spending money ya know. I actually have a 98x98x79 tent and is setup for 8 plants total with a 600 over each set of 4 plants in which case I have been thinking about adding some light to the areas that need it. I currently only have 4 plants call it 3 cause 1 is like a failed experiment in there flowering now and the 12 seen in my veg picture are my winter grow and is the grow im doing all the research to make sure it goes smooth. Im thinking about finishing its veg with the lucas formula and going straight to the AV line to flower. Like I stated before, I live in a hot humid climate, so now that winter fall and spring are right around the corner, I want to take advantage of the weather which is why I now have a fan blowing fresh air into my room which is right next to the tent and my airflow issues have been resolved lol. I no longer have to use my AC to cool down my place cause of those 2 600's.
 
lordjin

lordjin

Well-Known Member
Hijinxx said:
Well, lemme just put this out there so you know my motive lol. I grow for profit, I pay my school loans with my profits and use it for spending money ya know. I actually have a 98x98x79 tent and is setup for 8 plants total with a 600 over each set of 4 plants in which case I have been thinking about adding some light to the areas that need it. I currently only have 4 plants call it 3 cause 1 is like a failed experiment in there flowering now and the 12 seen in my veg picture are my winter grow and is the grow im doing all the research to make sure it goes smooth. Im thinking about finishing its veg with the lucas formula and going straight to the AV line to flower. Like I stated before, I live in a hot humid climate, so now that winter fall and spring are right around the corner, I want to take advantage of the weather which is why I now have a fan blowing fresh air into my room which is right next to the tent and my airflow issues have been resolved lol. I no longer have to use my AC to cool down my place cause of those 2 600's.
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You could do that. Try the AN Bloom. It could be the thing you've been looking for. You never know until you try.

Yeah, if you're a cash-cropper, you gotta grow primo shit or it aint worth the time and expense.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
I will have to skip the Sensi grow for veg cause I don't want to go from the Lucas formula to Sensi in veg, seems unnecessary. But for flower, I hope it works out going from the lucas formula to the AV line, seems a little scary but Ill do a flush for the transition and hope it all goes smooth. Also, do you or any1 else that reads this know if AV's Sensi line requires the Cal/Mag mix, I think I recall reading where plants form deficiencies if you dont buy the Cal/Mag (seems like a marketing scheme from AV) because if their nutes are designed for cannabis, why the fuck would you need Sensi Cal/Mag mix to complete your nute mix lol. I mean I have read somewhere before that the way their products are designed is better to keep them separate until mixed into your reservoir or something like that.
 
Hijinxx

Hijinxx

Well-Known Member
lordjin said:
You could do that. Try the AN Bloom. It could be the thing you've been looking for. You never know until you try.

Yeah, if you're a cash-cropper, you gotta grow primo shit or it aint worth the time and expense.
Click to expand...
Exactly!!!! This is why Im stressin lol, Primo shit is my goal and so far has not been achieved lol. Yield being the other major concern I just have to practice but honestly my bills cant wait so I have to get good at this as fast as possible lmao.
 
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