HPS Bulb Differences?

hyroot said:

Another ignorant statement. For one. The floros from the hydro shop are crap. They have red at 610nm and put out more gren than anytng. Thats just wasted light. You have not been using aquarium floros for years. A couple years ago they came out with 630 nm ree bulbs. Uust in the last 6 months they started making 660nm bulbs. Prior wasvthe ati pro color. The 4 ft ones were discontined. So you my friend are ass backwards. Its a proven fact that hps have very poor spectrum and PAR. Why do you think so many hid users have switched to led or t5 or add supplemental lighting.


Even jorge, rosenthal, emery, and just about all universities say the same thing. Theres even a video of rosenthal giving a speech about spectrum and uvb on you tube.

READ A BOOK!!!! Dont make asenine commentaries


In my last harvest I pulled 8.5 oz in 2 x 4. I still have around a qper hanging on top of that. That strain took longer. So thats around 12.5 off 8 3 footers under and 8 bulb. 2 korrallen zucht fiji purple, 3 zoo med flora suns. 2 uvl redsuns, 1 wave point coral ave.

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Like I said before; I actually am starting to believe SOME of your arguments and I do appreciate the info. That being said...you are not helping your argument by saying you pulled 12.5 ounces out of a 2x4 tent using just fluoros. Give me that tent and a 600w HID light and I'll show you yield.

Fact of the matter is I just can't grow my trees with fluoros. I would need hundreds of them. And I really don't think it would be cheaper. $400 for a 1000w ballast, bulb, reflector. I would need at least 3 2' 6 lamps T5's to cover the same area. That's $400 in fixtures without the specialty bulbs.

I've been keeping SPS corals, and selling them online, for many years. I'm a big fan of T5s, but to say that T5s should be recommended for complete replacement on medium to big grows is simply too subjective of an opinion at this point in time. The statement made earlier in this thread that HID has 10% PAR and T5s have 90% needs more explanation and clarification. There are many variables, but we typically get similar PAR readings when compaing 2 x 400 watt MH lamps vs. 8 x 54 watt T5. It is worth noting that when changing from MH lighting to T5s, the corals require acclimation, otherwise they get bleached (sunburned) . The high end T5s mentioned in this thread, such as ATI, Korallen Zucht, etc. are very expensive...even for those of us that get them in wholesale bulk. A changeout on an 8 x 54 watt lamp unit will be between $140 - $160...even more if puchased at full reef store retail. Based on PAR meter ratings we've taken, HID bulbs start to lose PAR significantly after about 12 months of 12/12 use...T5s about 9 months. I'm can get Hortilux 1000 watt Super HPS for around $50. Longer lasting than the T5s...at about a third the cost if comparing directly. As I do in reef keeping, I do in growing....that is HID for primary lighting with T5 as supplemental. A combination of both is best in my opinion. Good to see these discussions and it will be intereting to see where things are in 5 yrs...10 yrs. LED is blowing up in the reefing world. My next reef fixtureis going to be an LED/T5 hybrid.

p.s. - totally agree with single point light source vs. T5 continual source. It greatly helps to reduce shadowing.

hyroot said:

/
how is that misinformed. i layed out documented facts and proof and yet you didnt even read it or look at it.

i did a side by side with a t5 and 1000w with hortilux for 4 batches.the yield was the same each time per area and plant except for the first batch where hps yielded 10% more but used shitty soil that time. the quality of t5 has far surpasseed hps.


look at my journal or go to thread

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/358190-led-without-leds-my-first.html. i

t5's with coral and fresh wateral bulbs already been proven and documented several times by me and other people on here and scientists at University of Maryland, University of Missouri, Washington State, Texas A&M, University of Alabama, oxford University.. read the articles i posted before passing judgement with such an ignorant response. hid is 10 % PAR. my t5's are 90% PAR. the sun is !00% PAR


I do keep my t5 3 inches from canopy. yes hps will have more intensity because its a single point of light.

inverse square law.http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/isq.html

the t5 also acts like a light mover where its not a single point of light and the light output is across 4 ft. way less heat and like having it closer. the buds actually do get bigger under the t5. provided you get enough oxygen to the roots.


Im just saying what I do, i answered the hps question with facts not myth. do what you want or what ever works for you.


also I have to wear uv glasses when in the garden. all the uv-a ,uv-b, and infrared is very bad for the eyes

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Ithink i,d listen to scientific research but not a pot head. lol

polyarcturus said:

too true

hey hyroot wast trying to be an ass earlier i mean i know i would use coral bulbs in combo with other bulbs. i thought you where telling him to just get a deep blue bulb. but if he goes the t5 route he will need all types of spectrum bulbs. as far as deep blue mh i have never messed with it but i know regular Mh offers more spectrum(and a decent amount of uva) and CMH more than that(no uv tho)

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Cool.. That was just an example of a really good mh thats better than one from a hydro shop. Like I said before the aquarium community has made great advances in blue bulbs over the years but just recently started to make good red bulbs. But he can use
the mh for veg and te last week of flower. In the first post I said the best hps spectrum I could find is digilux from c.a.p./ discount hydro. There is another hps I found called maverick sun. But I havent found it in the stores and I've emailed that company several times and no response.

Also with the t5 ive tried different combos of bulbs over a year span. Til I gotvthe combo I got now. I still want to try a different combo. 4 zoomed flora sun, 3 uvl redsun, 1 wave point coral wave. Also for coral waves dont use more than 1 per 8 bulb. It puts out a lot of infrared. When I had 2 of them. Towards the end of flower there would start to be light bleaching and or leaves drying out and curling at ends mimicing symptoms of under watering.

jcommerce said:

I've been keeping SPS corals, and selling them online, for many years. I'm a big fan of T5s, but to say that T5s should be recommended for complete replacement on medium to big grows is simply too subjective of an opinion at this point in time. The statement made earlier in this thread that HID has 10% PAR and T5s have 90% needs more explanation and clarification. The high end T5s mentioned, such as ATI, Korallen Zucht, etc. are very expensive...even for those of us that get them in wholesale bulk. A changeout on an 8 x 54 watt lamp unit will be between $140 - $160...even more if puchased at full reef store retail. Based on PAR meter ratings we've taken, HID bulbs start to lose PAR significantly after about 12 months of 12/12 use...T5s about 9 months. I'm can get Hortilux 1000 watt Super HPS for around $50. Longer lasting than the T5s...at about a third the cost if comparing directly. As I do in reef keeping, I do in growing....that is HID for primary lighting with T5 as supplemental. A combination of both is best in my opinion. Good to see these discussions and it will be intereting to see where things are in 5 yrs...10 yrs. LED is blowing up in the reefing world. My next reef fixtureis going to be an LED/T5 hybrid.

p.s. - totally agree with single point light source vs. T5 continual source. It greatly helps to reduce shadowing.

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t5 test ive see. Dont lose par or degrade. They just burn out after 18 to 24 months. Hids start degrading after 6 months andvthe hids degrade 5% to 10% evry 2 months after that. Th price on bulbs is expensive. Bug if you factor in cost of fans and ducting, tape, and zip ties. A 16 bulb with aquarium bulbs would be $100 cheaper than a 1000 w and ventilation

Hyroot, you obviously know your T5s (I'm an ATI/KZ guy for reefs). What do you think about these lamps for spectrum and for primarily veg?

http://www.quantumhort.com/quantum-triphosphor-bulbs.html

hids dont degrade that fast so its not so bad most of the ratings are bulbs in non-aircooled hood and enclosed. air cooled hoods will keep the bulbs good for years.

im actually switching to t5 for veg because of the space and style of grow i employ but if i where growing taller plants than 2 ft i would keep my 400w mh for veg.

i actualy think growth under flouros is slightly faster as long as the light is up thier grill so to speak. now as far as price yeah t5's are a little cheaper but i still think HPS still has the edge not because of spectrum, but intensity. shit i flower under CFL(reptisun 26w 10.0 uvb), MH(hortilux standard 400w) and HPS(hortilux super 400w). i was thinking of getting rid of the MH for some t5 lights but undecided the balance of spectrum from fewer light sources seems better. im getting some dank and i yelid 1oz a plant in a 2x4x4 sog

i forget where i read it somewhere but there is supposed to be a t5 tri-phospher(full spectrum) bulb by some brand that doesn't block UVb

phillipchristian said:

Thanks for the info but I'm not a pothead. I'm actually a very sucessful high end real estate developer and I also own an import company in Central America.

Unless you are growing SOG or SCROG then a T5 light will never give you sufficient penetration to produce anything but popcorn buds. The information you posted is interesting and I'm going through it right now but you take one of my plants and stick it under a T5 with 8 bulbs and another one under a 600w HPS it;s not even going to be a comparison. You are speaking to a very small niche in the grow market. I agree with the study regarding UVB light and this is why it's been in my flower room for almost 3 years. As far as T5 daylight bulbs producing a better spectrum; you may be on to something. I'm just not in the mood too replace 1 1000w HID light with 5 8lamps 4' T5 fixtures per plant. That's about the only way you are going to get the penetration and disbursment you would need.

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I would agree imo T5,s are for cuttings Hid,s for flowering, you can kid your self on about broader spectrum,only 10% par from hortilux etc they just dont cut it against HID lighting imo.

H.P.S Bulbs As someone has said there,s good ones and not so good ones, from the u,k Grolux,sunmaster, philips green power, and the son T-AGRO, i,m asuming hortilux are the same, which have a colour ajusted spectrum namely in the blue region they have 30% more blue than std hps "also known as dual spec lamps" lamp which are namely orange also all m.h are 45/50 kelvin there is no bad ones afaik ? TCD

Hyroot, I skipped thru a few posts cuz ADD in all. Absolutely correct, I wish more people would look and try before condemning a new approach.
the other added benefit is the proximity to the plant, a T5 setup can be run so much closer the intensity of the light is maximized.
With the added benefit of much more closely reproducing the spectrums of light the plants are going to use.

look at how salt water aquariums grow the corals, they need intense penetration to grow healthy coral, not to mention being picky bastards, the wave lengths have to be better.

It is fairly pricey to set up a good system, but the bulb life alone should attract people. not to mention, your going to do as good or better once you get it dialed in correctly.

The only HID I see that even compares might be a Ceramic Metal Halide, but I would need to see a good test against the two.

I am also sure, to maximize the T5 setup, a scrog is in order, however, it takes much more time to maximize your result. And im not sure if that is offset by being able to reduce plant count.


either way +rep bump to you.


Happy growing, keep it green.

jcommerce said:

Hyroot, you obviously know your T5s (I'm an ATI/KZ guy for reefs). What do you think about these lamps for spectrum and for primarily veg?

http://www.quantumhort.com/quantum-triphosphor-bulbs.html

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They are ok they will do the job for veg. Red is in wrong place needed. They put out more green than others so there is som wasted light. . in my veg I have 6 bulbs with 2 coralife actinics, 1 ati aquablue special, 1 coralife colormax, 2 6500k that came with light.with that combo they do veg faster with closer nodes more so than all 6500k. For refernece. red/blue. Veg 40/60. Flower 60/40. In veg adding red spectrum will help reduce stretching and in flower adding blue will reduce stretching.

All this goes out the window when you get into induction fluorescents...

Icannabis said:

All this goes out the window when you get into induction fluorescents...

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...Or plasma lighting. But who has $1500-$5000 to replace a 1000w HID?

phillipchristian said:

...Or plasma lighting. But who has $1500-$5000 to replace a 1000w HID?

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Indagro sulfur plasma. $850 after shipping.

http://www.inda-gro.com/store


The red spikes are at mostly 610nm and a little at 630nm. So you would have to supplement with some 660nm red kessils or something along those lines. So still not worth it. if they tweak the gas a little they could add some 660nm to it.

if i was gonna switch lights from HID it would have to be a t5 LED combo.

plasma may be in the future but thats unrealistic and so are LEDs but less so (a little more affordable and if you have proper knowledge you can build them yourself) and hid ballasts are just now a days becoming more affordable. i remember digital ballasts for 250$ for a 400w ballast only

Fact of the matter is if you grow any plant over 3 feet tall then HID is really your only viable option right now. Plasma lights are fucking expensive and hot as shit with no way to cool them except a/c because they can't be put in a hood.

hyroot said:

Another ignorant statement. For one. The floros from the hydro shop are crap. They have red at 610nm and put out more gren than anytng. Thats just wasted light. You have not been using aquarium floros for years. A couple years ago they came out with 630 nm ree bulbs. Uust in the last 6 months they started making 660nm bulbs. Prior wasvthe ati pro color. The 4 ft ones were discontined. So you my friend are ass backwards. Its a proven fact that hps have very poor spectrum and PAR. Why do you think so many hid users have switched to led or t5 or add supplemental lighting.

thing. Theres even a video of rosenthal giving a speech about spectrum and uvb on you tube.

READ A BOOK!!!! Dont make asenine commentaries


In my last harvest I pulled 8.5 oz in 2 x 4. I still have around a qper hanging on top of that. That strain took longer. So thats around 12.5 off 8 3 footers under and 8 bulb. 2 korrallen zucht fiji purple, 3 zoo med flora suns. 2 uvl redsuns, 1 wave point coral ave.

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thanks hyroot this is the most useful info onlighting ive ever read on this site, i use a combo of t5's and hps but the cost of running 2x 1000 watt is killing into my profit, i wont be so quick to bag fluros now + rep!

hyroot said:

1 8 bulb will produce the same yield per plant but better quality. i do sog in one room and big 3 x 2 footers in the other. using t5's. i do all indica's too. 2 8 bulbs or a 16 bulb will have the same coverage area of 1000w but cover better since its not a single point of light. and less wattage and almost no heat in comparison.


Im not saying go out and replace everything. I do love my t5's though... my point is that spectrum is the most important thing in lighting regardless of what you use. Lumens is prehistoric way of explaing how we see light. almost like greek mythology. Unfortunaltely there is not really any good spectrum hps. there are alot of awesome mh's. the aquarium world has spent 25 years of research and development. but corals mostly use the blue end at 420nm and 450nm. Recently companies started making fresh water bulbs with more of red at the 660 nm. where there are several at 630nm but only a few at 660nm.

Chlorophyll A makes up 75% of chlorophyll and between 660nm and 700nm is where chlorophyll absorbs the most light. then the blue end there are more photons than anywhere and contributes to co2 absorption and promotes terpene production in turn thc, cbd, cbn , cbe , etc.... plants doe absorb about 20% of green and yellow. when those are present more photons can be absorbed by the plant. that's one of the problems with led. no green, yellow, or amber.

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Well I must concur that YOU are speaking well documented and researched facts...very refreshing ...thank you

hyroot said:

Bulbs can be bough from aquarium specialty, hellolights, marine depot, aquarium guys, petco, dr. Foster smith.

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could you please share the model names and numbers for 4 ft T5 630 and 660 nm ho bulbs?

hyroot said:

They are ok they will do the job for veg. Red is in wrong place needed. They put out more green than others so there is som wasted light. . in my veg I have 6 bulbs with 2 coralife actinics, 1 ati aquablue special, 1 coralife colormax, 2 6500k that came with light.with that combo they do veg faster with closer nodes more so than all 6500k. For refernece. red/blue. Veg 40/60. Flower 60/40. In veg adding red spectrum will help reduce stretching and in flower adding blue will reduce stretching.

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link for verification...it is blue regardless of phase which inhibits stretch...unless some very recent white paper has been published, which demonstrates this... and if so please guide me to it..again thank you... i am using aquamedic plant t5 peak 650 and actinic plus t5 450 nm peak for supplementals with two 400 watt CMH on movers overhead