How to Fix The U.S Economy?

While wars are each different and have different pretexts and contexts, there are useful commonalities. It's typically a conflict over who gets the goodies, be they territory or other resource access. Ideology is usually overlay and not the prime mover.

As for playing the cards we have, i think that is a good idea and really the only viable one. I tend to err on the side of control, and am frustrated when most of the deck is face down.

The economic policies in this country now, and anywhere else that capitalism is embraced, has created new segments of society that have no money, barely any money, and a shit load of money. This economic philosophy is doomed to failure in my opinion, as the majority of people, who do not have alpha personalities become disenfranchised from the society they exist in. It used to be that the wealth of the US was relatively balanced, but that human trait called greed has never been considered in that economic philosophy called capitalism. Greed has never been really calculated into any formula that espoused capitalism as the perfect solution for prosperity to all. It simply doesn't work, as we can see today in the US, and actually throughout the world. Every one is basically going broke , except for a select few. Hopefully this will not last forever, as the many revolutions dotting history have shown that people have a breaking point. Maybe the decline in income for the majority can be the norm in the future, but I don't think so. Anger and disgust had not been considered either in that formula, and there are a hell of a lot of people that feel that way in this country now, and actually all over the globe.

cannabineer said:

While wars are each different and have different pretexts and contexts, there are useful commonalities. It's typically a conflict over who gets the goodies, be they territory or other resource access. Ideology is usually overlay and not the prime mover.

As for playing the cards we have, i think that is a good idea and really the only viable one. I tend to err on the side of control, and am frustrated when most of the deck is face down.

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I agree, I just think that this is a unique period in the timeline where for the first time, the entire deck has been played. There are no cards left that are not in play (or very few). The number of players at the table is dwindling because the big players are hungry and still oriented towards growth. I don't know what card game this is, but the cards metaphor kinda works.

Our species has not been at such a "verge of globalization" in known history.

abandonconflict said:

I agree, I just think that this is a unique period in the timeline where for the first time, the entire deck has been played. There are no cards left that are not in play (or very few). The number of players at the table is dwindling because the big players are hungry and still oriented towards growth. I don't know what card game this is, but the cards metaphor kinda works.

Our species has not been at such a "verge of globalization" in known history.

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Agreed. Comms and transport have made for an effectively global community.
I see opportunity and danger. The danger comes from the application of sophisticated economic models to the distribution not only of assets but of obligations. Previously, when an economy collapsed, the effects were regional, and the rest of the world "soldiered on" and was a pool for the reintroduction of technology and capital.
Now what i am seeing is the careful distribution of the strain of debt and deficit obligations, increasing carrying capacity, bringing efficiency without added strength.
I fear (and hope it doesn't come to pass thus) that when one piece breaks, the others will be so (over)loaded that they will follow. A domino effect such as accounted for the great regional power blackouts of the late 20th and early 21st century in the Eastern US plus Canada ... might ensue.

It sounds like you fear a re-dealing of the cards and a new game of strife starting fresh. I am hopeful and optimistic, but I see why you fear, if you do.

When Rome fell, it made way for feudalism, but this is a different game of cards.

OBSERVATION:

Check out posts #12-#17 (not including mine)

Now THAT'S the way to debate!!

abandonconflict said:

When Rome fell,

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I think that humanity suffered through the "Dark Ages" for quite a spell.
Until the Renaissance.
I think that this may very well happen again.

Wavels said:

I think that humanity suffered through the "Dark Ages" for quite a spell.
Until the Renaissance.
I think that this may very well happen again.

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I acknowledge it is possible. This possibility is the very motivation for all of my political thought. I am optimistic.

abandonconflict said:

I acknowledge it is possible. This possibility is the very motivation for all of my political thought. I am optimistic.

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Interesting insight.


And of course, my reference to the Dark Ages is quite Euro Centric...

ive got my food, seeds, guns and land. Bring on the doom bitches. helter skelter ftw.

I would say that what I fear is not so much a re-dealing of the cards as a collapse of the game when this is tried. Entrenched interests have the whole world as their fortress now, and mounting a siege is no longer a viable option. Revolution would be the only path away, and from what I read, revolutions tend to backfire and result in the installation of an even more regressively authoritarian regime than the one they sought to supplant. It's worth remembering that the American Revolution wasn't a real one such but an insurrection by folks too far from the seat of power to be quickly and decisively unseated.

Perhaps a third way, neither siege nor revolution, may become available. The breadth and depth of informability is currently without parallel or precedent. It might allow for a new paradigm that I, with my old ideas, do not see. But this same breadth and depth of informability is neither robust nor immune from large-scale manipulation. Then again history is not devoid of long shots that paid off. Unfortunately the ones that do not get selected out of the books.

Jimdamick said:

You want to get rid of the national debt, scrap the law saying there can be only 2 terms for a President, and re-elect Bill Clinton. He got us out of the debt left by Reagan and Bush #1, balanced the budget and it wasn't until the Republicans were elected again that it turned to shit. By the time Bush #2 left office, we were so far in debt by funding wars while lowering taxes at the same time, that we might never get out of it this time. We might reduce it as long as the Republicans sit on the sidelines and keep their veto's in their pockets, and we actually could get something done in Washington. What we need now is another Clinton in the WH in 2016, but that might not even be enough considering how much damage has already been done, by Republicans I might add, not Obama who is just a whipping boy for Conservative assholes.

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Out of debt?!? When the hell was this. Or maybe you are confusing balancing the budget with getting out of debt. Unless by out of debt you mean the amount we owe growing from 4 to almost 6 trillion.

cannabineer said:

I would say that what I fear is not so much a re-dealing of the cards as a collapse of the game when this is tried. Entrenched interests have the whole world as their fortress now, and mounting a siege is no longer a viable option. Revolution would be the only path away, and from what I read, revolutions tend to backfire and result in the installation of an even more regressively authoritarian regime than the one they sought to supplant. It's worth remembering that the American Revolution wasn't a real one such but an insurrection by folks too far from the seat of power to be quickly and decisively unseated.

Perhaps a third way, neither siege nor revolution, may become available. The breadth and depth of informability is currently without parallel or precedent. It might allow for a new paradigm that I, with my old ideas, do not see. But this same breadth and depth of informability is neither robust nor immune from large-scale manipulation. Then again history is not devoid of long shots that paid off. Unfortunately the ones that do not get selected out of the books.

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There are more really smart people than there have ever been. I think the trend is to say the opposite, but people are smart, literate, philosophical and discerning in their 30s now. Back when it took much longer for people to be so socially mature, lifespans allowed for far fewer enlightened folks to guide others and a higher proportion of those who could not live with out guidance. What I think we have is a society that is becoming aware of it's flaws.

I think society just needs to be smarter and wiser. What does that consist of? More people are getting smarter.

GOD HERE said:

You're probably one of the most misinformed people on this board. Welfare recipients? LOL. Take a look at how money is spent in this country. Try "corporate welfare", "unlimited bailouts and subsidies for private banks", "lack of regulation on wallstreet", and the biggest leeches of all, the "Defense industry".

You get so angry at the democrats because of some delusion that they have such a different and more malevolent ideology than your teabag congressmen, but in reality both parties follow the same basic ideology. It's easily manipulated uneducated morons like yourself who allow the paradigm to exist, and to keep the semblance of a 2 party state.

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50% of the US budget goes toward entitlements (i.e. giving people something for nothing), and 5% goes toward our huge national debt that those entitlements have caused...

Jimdamick said:

You want to get rid of the national debt, scrap the law saying there can be only 2 terms for a President, and re-elect Bill Clinton. He got us out of the debt left by Reagan and Bush #1, balanced the budget and it wasn't until the Republicans were elected again that it turned to shit.

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You are confusing the debt with the deficit. He got rid of the deficit, hardly touched the debt. He also basically turned Social Security into a tax. He also increased some taxes on the rich. He raised taxes all around. That is simply smoke and mirrors. In order to make the actual accomplishment look bigger. What he actually accomplished was a savings of $80B per year on average in defense spending.

He did decrease military spending by over 16%. You may see other numbers out there about defense budgets but if you look at actual budgets in the Reagan years and average them and actual budgets during the Clinton years and average them and compare those two averages, it is just over a 16% decrease in military spending. Also keep in mind, the cold war had just ended, so the decreased spending reflects that and in my opinion, there should have been much greater defense cuts.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your praise of Clinton, just kind of clarifying about debt and tax and spending. I have decided my vote will only go to a candidate who will drastically reduce military spending. With highly efficient technology and a dearth of enemies (even China would prefer to trade) a decrease of 30% is not at all too much to ask and I think 50% is even feasible immediately. Just another reason to vote green.

cannabineer said:

An interesting idea. What i do not know is how to proof such a thing against either
a) takeover by an ambitious imperial-minded individual or group from within, or
b) out-competition (conquest, basically) by a robust and unscrupulous outside organization, such as that operated by the Mongol Khans.

I see human nature as a barrier to this and not a catalyst.

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Sounds like what we already have. The libertarian structuring is what would guard against those kind of threats, but in end the propaganda has always been the best weapon.

clinton used the revaluation of iraqi dinars to get us out of debt.

DonPepe said:

Out of debt?!? When the hell was this. Or maybe you are confusing balancing the budget with getting out of debt. Unless by out of debt you mean the amount we owe growing from 4 to almost 6 trillion.

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What I should have said is that as an average, debt increased more rapidly under Republican administrations. It seems that it was only possible to hold the debt at bay, and finally stabilize it's growth during the Clinton administration, while leaving actually a surplus.

GOD HERE said:

It's illegitimate.

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Indeed, debts that others incur and call them yours without your consent certainly are illegitimate.

GOD HERE said:

Sounds like what we already have. The libertarian structuring is what would guard against those kind of threats, but in end the propaganda has always been the best weapon.

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I do not see how the libertarian structuring would strengthen what I see as a metastable social construct from empire builders without or within. The construct seems to rely on a superhuman level of team play, the classic utopian premise. If you can point me toward a succinct summary otherwise, i express interest. I'm not looking to argue but rather to learn, within the limitations of my level of interest of course.