How to Combat Sunni Jihad

still waiting for smok3y1 to show his face again and dispute the cited verses of the koran, which have now been cited for, i believe, the 5th time, and each time he pretends it never happened only to challenge me to "man up" again later...

yep. moslems arent encouraged to lie in service of their religion.
maybe their religion really is just the last refuge for ignorant uneducated primitive barbarians who cannot face the modern world
kinda like "Libertarian Socialism", islam is a comforting Hugbox designed to reassure the stupid and perpetually baffled that they really are good enough smart enough, and gosh darn it people like them.

I would not call it a refuge. No one flocks to Islam. Raised in it, repressed to it, yes. And then even in the watered down western version, people "join" I don't see, "love one another," or any referral to the symbiosis of all mankind in free will. (only under Cleric Will "decoding Allah?")

It is a fatalist view. A regression. A logic loop of distress for all that would not.

It seems such a simple thing say, "I'll let you live aside from Islam." "It is no sin to not worship anything."

Doer said:

It is a fatalist view.

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Like when you said feeding poor people is a bad idea since they would just reproduce?

still no Smok3y1.

funny how the arrival of the Koran in a thread heralds the disappearance of the moslem apologists.
it's almost like they assumed i havent read THEIR stupid little book too.

Dr Kynes said:

still no Smok3y1.

funny how the arrival of the Koran in a thread heralds the disappearance of the moslem apologists.
it's almost like they assumed i havent read THEIR stupid little book too.

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Please tell us again how the torah is historical fact... The torah is full of bullshit and half truths just like every other religious book....

You really think jews are the chosen people don't you

echelon1k1 said:

Please tell us again how the torah is historical fact... The torah is full of bullshit and half truths just like every other religious book....

You really think jews are the chosen people don't you

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the torah is in fact a significant historical record. it contains a great deal of FACTUAL DATA useful to historians.

i understand why this confuses and angers you. you think im talking about the "and god said kill some people, then i walked on water and saw a virgin birth" bullshit.

heres an example of ANOTHER valuable resource for the study of ancient history:

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cato/De_Agricultura/home.html

this work contains huge amounts of information on how romans lived their lives, just as the torah contains a great deal of information on how the hebrews of the time lived THEIR lives.

Cato's De Agricultura also has a lot of RELIGIOUS CONTENT, including detailed descriptions of the method for making sacrifices and homages to a variety of gods lares and numinous dieties, assuming that they are REAL, and that placating them is essential.

this RELIGIOUS CONTENT does not invalidate the historical veracity of the rest of the work, nor does this RELIGIOUS CONTENT transform this book on farming into a hate filled religious screed, just as the BOOK OF LAWS called the torah is not reduced to a scientology pamphlet by it's RELIGIOUS CONTENT.

if Religious Content were all that was needed to turn a document into nonsense, then EVERY letter book, scroll, scientific paper and cave painting from the 20th century backward would be USELESS.

trust me, EVERYONE is glad you are not given the power to declare literature invalid.

do you alos hold contempt for the Iliad, or the Norse Skalds?

Edit: also, , NICE STRAWMAN, you almost distracted me.

but even if the torah were as worthless as the quotations from eliajah muhammed, the koran would still be the memoirs and manifesto of a mad warmongering dictator, which yes, does have some historical significance.
if i were studying camel thievery, pederasty, religious intolerance and opium addiction in the 7th century, the Koran would be an invaluable resource.

Dr Kynes said:

the torah is in fact a significant historical record. it contains a great deal of FACTUAL DATA useful to historians.
i understand why this confuses and angers you. you think im talking about the "and god said kill some people, then i walked on water and saw a virgin birth" bullshit.
heres an example of ANOTHER valuable resource for the study of ancient history:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cato/De_Agricultura/home.html
this work contains huge amounts of information on how romans lived their lives, just as the torah contains a great deal of information on how the hebrews of the time lived THEIR lives.
Cato's De Agricultura also has a lot of RELIGIOUS CONTENT, including detailed descriptions of the method for making sacrifices and homages to a variety of gods lares and numinous dieties, assuming that they are REAL, and that placating them is essential.
this RELIGIOUS CONTENT does not invalidate the historical veracity of the rest of the work, nor does this RELIGIOUS CONTENT transform this book on farming into a hate filled religious screed, just as the BOOK OF LAWS called the torah is not reduced to a scientology pamphlet by it's RELIGIOUS CONTENT.
if Religious Content were all that was needed to turn a document into nonsense, then EVERY letter book, scroll, scientific paper and cave painting from the 20th century backward would be USELESS.
trust me, EVERYONE is glad you are not given the power to declare literature invalid.
do you alos hold contempt for the Iliad, or the Norse Skalds?

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You're having a go at Muslims because some whacko has misinterpreted a text as a call to arms, yet you'll justify Israel's use of force and continued illegality based on a religious text and see no parallels between that which you detest? The idea of gods chosen people stems from the Torah and look at the peace and tranquillity that and every other bullshit religious book has brought the world... You attempt to disguise it but at the end of the day it's the same story...
edit: Case in point...

Dr Kynes said:

if i were studying camel thievery, pederasty, religious intolerance and opium addiction in the 7th century, the Koran would be an invaluable resource.

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echelon1k1 said:

You're having a go at Muslims because some whacko has misinterpreted a text as a call to arms,

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not "misinterpreted" the koran is FULL of exhortations to violence, and not specific violence like "god says strike down jericho rape their bitches and make the city our own" but OPEN ENDED COMMANDS, "general Orders" if you will, to ALL moslems:



http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[66.9] O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them; and their abode is hell; and evil is the resort.

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

[8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

(just a small sample, obtained by a search for "Unbeliever" and "War")

These General Orders set forth the basis for the Jihad, and set forth the conditions for it's end: when there are no more unbelievers to fight.

echelon1k1 said:

yet you'll justify Israel's use of force and continued illegality based on a religious text and see no parallels between that which you detest?

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israel's continued defense of their territory and citizens based on the same rights and responsibilities EVERY nation has. the torah does not validate their struggle with islam any more than the koran validates islam's struggle with EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-cant-hindus-and-muslims-get-along-together-its-a-long-story-1162319.html
http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21582321-fuelled-dangerous-brew-faith-ethnicity-and-politics-tit-tat-conflict-escalating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bahá'ís
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Zoroastrians

but yeah, the jews cant get along with the muzzies. must be the jews fault right?

echelon1k1 said:

The idea of gods chosen people stems from the Torah and look at the peace and tranquillity that and every other bullshit religious book has brought the world... You attempt to disguise it but at the end of the day it's the same story...

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Non Sequitur.
crazy words in the torah or the bible or dianetics does not excuse CRAZY DEEDS from CRAZY MOSLEMS who cant stop pissing off EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD, even others who a nominally moslems.

Edit: also. kaffir is still an apostate, Takfir is still the act of calling a putative moslem an apostate, and you still have no idea how stupid you sound when you say "them jews started that shit" when the entire world has been taking islam's shit for so long, that frankly, even the buddhists are getting pissed off.

Dr Kynes said:

not "misinterpreted" the koran is FULL of exhortations to violence, and not specific violence like "god says strike down jericho rape their bitches and make the city our own" but OPEN ENDED COMMANDS, "general Orders" if you will, to ALL moslems:



http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[66.9] O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them; and their abode is hell; and evil is the resort.

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

[8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

(just a small sample, obtained by a search for "Unbeliever" and "War")

These General Orders set forth the basis for the Jihad, and set forth the conditions for it's end: when there are no more unbelievers to fight.



israel's continued defense of their territory and citizens based on the same rights and responsibilities EVERY nation has. the torah does not validate their struggle with islam any more than the koran validates islam's struggle with EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-cant-hindus-and-muslims-get-along-together-its-a-long-story-1162319.html
http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21582321-fuelled-dangerous-brew-faith-ethnicity-and-politics-tit-tat-conflict-escalating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bahá'ís
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Zoroastrians

but yeah, the jews cant get along with the muzzies. must be the jews fault right?




Non Sequitur.
crazy words in the torah or the bible or dianetics does not excuse CRAZY DEEDS from CRAZY MOSLEMS who cant stop pissing of EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD, even others who a nominally moslems.

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The talmud condones paedophilia and even to this day you have rabbis who subscribe to this sick view... Doesn't mean all jews are pedos... Crazy interpretations from the Koran doesn't mean all muslims are jihadis...

If you put as much time into educating yourself as you do in pushing bullshit on the internet, you wouldn't be working min wage at 45... Its quite clear you are not one of gods chosen people...

echelon1k1 said:

The torah condones paedophilia and even to this day you have rabbis who subscribe to this sick view... Doesn't mean all jews are pedos... Crazy interpretations from the Koran doesn't mean all muslims are jihadis...

If you put as much time into educating yourself as you do in pushing bullshit on the internet, you wouldn't be working min wage at 45... Its quite clear you are not one of gods chosen people...

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Nope.

the torah cannot condone shit, because it has no power over me.
the koran cannot condone shit, because it too has no power over me.
the bible cannot condone shit because it too has no power over me.

you cannot understand this because you are incapable of using reason. this is why your arguments are always driven by emotion, and INVARIABLY result in ad hominems when your failure to convince others becomes an insurmountable obstacle.

the torah cannot be used to justify moslem atrocities, any more then the koran can be used to justify jewish ones.
where you really fail is your false equivalence between actual atrocities, like say bombing a schoolbus or machinegunning a pre-school, with attacking a military rocket emplacement set up on the roof of a hospital deliberately, as a cowardly attempt to use the hospital as a shield.
~http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1546
"During April 1-11, 2002, the IDF invaded Jenin to neutralize terrorist forces based there, as part of its Operation Defensive Shield, after a deadly string of terror attacks including the infamous Park Hotel massacre (March 27, 2002). The IDF knew that terrorist forces in Jenin were expecting the invasion, and that they had prepared for it with numerous booby traps and ambush forces hidden within the civilian population, in Arab homes, mosques, hospitals and public places. Common sense and customary military practice would dictate that the IDF engage in safe, long-distance attacks from the air and with artillery, to reduce or eliminate Israeli casualties. But Israel chose instead to send in ground forces, going house to house, urging civilians to leave, accompanying those who did so until they reached safety, employing local residents to urge others to leave, and urging terrorists hidden in homes to surrender. And in doing so, the Israeli soldiers themselves became easy targets for the terrorists.

Although UN debates and international media teemed with accusations of massacres, bloodbaths, war crimess, and crimes against humanity, Western and even Arab sources admitted later that there was simply no evidence to support such infamy. A total of 54 Arabs, almost all armed terrorists, and 23 Israeli soldiers were killed in Jenin."

Dr Kynes said:

Nope.

the torah cannot condone shit, because it has no power over me.
the koran cannot condone shit, because it too has no power over me.
the bible cannot condone shit because it too has no power over me.

you cannot understand this because you are incapable of using reason. this is why your arguments are always driven by emotion, and INVARIABLY result in ad hominems when your failure to convince others becomes an insurmountable obstacle.

the torah cannot be used to justify moslem atrocities, any more then the koran can be used to justify jewish ones.
where you really fail is your false equivalence between actual atrocities, like say bombing a schoolbus or machinegunning a pre-school, with attacking a military rocket emplacement set up on the roof of a hospital deliberately, as a cowardly attempt to use the hospital as a shield.
~http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1546
"During April 1-11, 2002, the IDF invaded Jenin to neutralize terrorist forces based there, as part of its Operation Defensive Shield, after a deadly string of terror attacks including the infamous Park Hotel massacre (March 27, 2002). The IDF knew that terrorist forces in Jenin were expecting the invasion, and that they had prepared for it with numerous booby traps and ambush forces hidden within the civilian population, in Arab homes, mosques, hospitals and public places. Common sense and customary military practice would dictate that the IDF engage in safe, long-distance attacks from the air and with artillery, to reduce or eliminate Israeli casualties. But Israel chose instead to send in ground forces, going house to house, urging civilians to leave, accompanying those who did so until they reached safety, employing local residents to urge others to leave, and urging terrorists hidden in homes to surrender. And in doing so, the Israeli soldiers themselves became easy targets for the terrorists.

Although UN debates and international media teemed with accusations of massacres, bloodbaths, war crimess, and crimes against humanity, Western and even Arab sources admitted later that there was simply no evidence to support such infamy. A total of 54 Arabs, almost all armed terrorists, and 23 Israeli soldiers were killed in Jenin."

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But there is plenty of evidence to support "Blueprint Negev/Prawer Plan" not to mention the 1948 massacre of Palestinians... http://palestine-studies.org/enakba/exodus/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf

Try as you may, you're as much a zealot as the jihadis you decry...

echelon1k1 said:

But there is plenty of evidence to support "Blueprint Negev/Prawer Plan" not to mention the 1948 massacre of Palestinians... http://palestine-studies.org/enakba/exodus/Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.pdf

Try as you may, you're as much a zealot as the jihadis you decry...

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mmm yes, one side ALLEGES a massacre during a CIVIL WAR in 1948, so for the rest of eternity all jews should be driven into the sea by outraged moslems and their australian sycophants.

expelling moslem squatters from land BOUGHT by jews as well as land granted by the brits for the formation of israel = brutal massacre, and the excuse for machinegunning french preschools 70 years later.

you are still arguing emotion, and justifying atrocities with the same old shit in a new wrapper.

i do not consider that the israleis should drive all moslems out of israel,, nor out of the occupied territories. i certainly do not support the extermination of all moslems everywhere until all the world is cleansed of the taint of islam, however the zealots YOU seem so keen to defend (but apparently only when it gives you as chance to take a poke at the jews) DO espouse the converse proposition, that EVERYONE who is not a moslem must either convert die of be enslaved (voluntarily of course, in a bizarre word game even AC couldnt parse)but the jews in particular, (being the offspring of apes and pigs) shall be exterminated.

why are you so keen to jump on the muzzie band wagon when it's time to bash some jews?
i know of a certainty you do not harbour any illusions about the moslems forgiving you your kaffirness because you made some rude posts about Das Juden, so whats the deal?

Protip: The enemy of my enemy is STILL MY ENEMY.

how many times is kynes gonna post the exact same quotes from the koran while ignoring the even worse ones in the bible and concluding that all muslims are therefore evil?

seems kinda lopsided and willfully ignorant to me, but what else would you expect from a grown damn man who still works for minimum wage?

UncleBuck said:

how many times is kynes gonna post the exact same quotes from the koran while ignoring the even worse ones in the bible and concluding that all muslims are therefore evil?

seems kinda lopsided and willfully ignorant to me, but what else would you expect from a grown damn man who still works for minimum wage?

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so lets hear whats wrong with the bible the old testament was kinda crazy compared to the new testament but I don't think it had anything related to jihad haven't read much of the new and not all of the old testament but I don't recall a war against non believers.

bluntmassa1 said:

so lets hear whats wrong with the bible the old testament was kinda crazy compared to the new testament but I don't think it had anything related to jihad haven't read much of the new and not all of the old testament but I don't recall a war against non believers.

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the bible has as much to do with jihad as the koran does to christians blowing up gay clubs (that act of terror did happen) or christians shooting doctors dead if they dare perform an abortion instead of letting it be done in a back alley (yep, happened many times).

i won't even mention how the koran has nothing to do with a christian flying his plane into a building.

"christians" who murder abortion doctors and blow up gay clubs and fly planes into buildings are raping the bible just as much as any muslims who commit similar acts of terror are raping the koran.

an old book is no excuse to commit atrocities. kynes seems to think this is limited to muslims (or at least that is all he ever mentions much less repeats over and over).

perverting religious beliefs is not confined to one religion or the other, and terrorism happens just the same through all religions and even in those who have no religion.

yet kkkynes only labors this point in a long winded fashion about muslims, and finds proper to excuse jews and christians of the same. hell, he has never gone on about the rampant catholic pedophilia once that i have seen, yet how many times has he mentioned machinegunning a school in france?

what does this illustrate about that guy, the same guy who calls any hispanic person whatsoever a "beaner"?

it's probably the case that kynes is totally not racist and bigoted against any darker skinned person whatsoever.*

Wrong again, but not completely. The bible has everything...never mind. But, the points..well those are correct...so not completely right...well.. the stuff about the old books....OK..


100% Right and Correct

And in fact, the horror acts of Christians beginning in about 200 CE, to loot and burn out pagans and Jews, is what incited this War Cult into being.. And the material at hand was the same. So, the Books are the same, more or less. For an Angel, they just chose David instead of Michael, just like Mormon then chose Maroni as their top Guard Angel. Every Mormon Church has that Angel atop it. Ever see it? Islam regards Christians and Jews as brothers of the Book....THAT MUST BE PUNISHED. In other words, they blew it. That is the dogma.

So, in the Western religions you need angels, to protect from devils. Moses and Abraham, all those guys, were fluttering, all the time, with Angels. The one who's name must not be spoken, was transported nighty by David to revelation.

Now, when we got to Mormon we see the repeat. And old scam worked, so what do you think? Yep, use it. Maroni transported Joseph Smith nightly to revelation. Religion is so simple to me. All war cult.

bluntmassa1 said:

so lets hear whats wrong with the bible the old testament was kinda crazy compared to the new testament but I don't think it had anything related to jihad haven't read much of the new and not all of the old testament but I don't recall a war against non believers.

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Well in fact there was and is, constant horror against non-believers, homosexuals, hippies, and all manner of normal people they call fallen from the path of Righteousness. Henry Ford and FDR were Juden-phobes. Many in America are today. One of our managers with a Business Class ticket was not allowed recently, in the Lufthansa Lounge in Frankfurt....Juden they said. Not fair to the other passengers.

And since you don't really go deep enough, I will tell you. The Christians have warred against the Jews without cease for 2000 years. Ran them out and burned their homes, executed them in mass, and even worse. The Christians took their show on the War road, via Emperor Constantine, who had the BIBLE written. And so blame him and Gutenberg for the Horror of Western "Religion." And now the Jews are Militant again after 2000 years.

Zionism is not Judaism.

bluntmassa1 said:

so lets hear whats wrong with the bible the old testament was kinda crazy compared to the new testament but I don't think it had anything related to jihad haven't read much of the new and not all of the old testament but I don't recall a war against non believers.

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this is a stalking horse, a distraction. the issue at hand is the islamic religious requirement for Jihad, which is WAR WITHOUT END until there are no more unbelievers to fight.

this is one of the key tenets of islam, and as long as imams and mullahs keep preaching it, it will continue to goad numbskull dimwit zealots into violence

jihad is not a "bad translation" or an exhortation to make war on one city, or one country in a religiously sanctioned (read as religiously excused) war of conquest, nor is jihad an exhortation to "share the faith" with the unbelievers, it is explicit Standing Orders from mohammed to all the "believers" to make war on the unbelievers until there are ONLY believers and then they will have "peace"

even the name for their religion, "islam" means peace, but not the kind most religions seek, they want to be the LAST RELIGION STANDING and thus ensure that nobody ever challenges their authority ever again.

distracting the issue with the alleged crazy of other religions does not in any way reduce the crazy of islam, it is in fact JUST A DISTRACTION and a justification.
Islam breeds violence and terrorism like public housing breeds cockroaches.

does the crazy bullshit about space opera and alien ghosts in $cientology justify machinegiunning a preschool? NO
does the wacky nonsense of the obviously forged Cloud Sutra justify putting a bomb in a retarded child's backpack and sending him off to school? NO
does a 5000 year old tale about god helping an army knock down a city's wall with goat horm music justify lobbing WW2 surplus russian artillery rockets into neighborhoods? NO
does a wacky story of a dude walking on water and turning water into wine justify hijacking cruise ships and shooting wheelchair bound cripples in the face? NO

it's all just a game to bucky AC etc... the dont even believ what they are blibbering, they are simply using this discussion as an opportunity to take a few cheap shots at religious groups who tend to disagree with them. they are furthering their agenda by invading your mind with shit that is IRRELEVANT for no purpose beyond spreading their Post Modern Disease of deconstruction of the truth until you can only see lies.

the simple fact is, EVERYWHERE mohammedans go, the people who lived there before them are either forced to take up arms to preserve their culture or they BECOME MOHAMMEDANS.
bucky and AC and the lefty gang LOVE "multiculturalism", it's the one thing they can all agree on, we should embrace EVERY culture on earth and welcome them into our hearts, otherwise youre just a MEANIE
this includes Mohammedanism, which itself is VIOLENTLY opposed to "multiculturalism" wherever it becomes dominant. so, their assertion is that the western societies should open their hearts to a violent repressive acquisitive and domineering society, take their "culture" into our own, and blithely watch as mohammedanism consumes OUR culture (as it has many others) and enjoy the ride as the west slowly becomes part of Dar Al Islam, and your grandkids will know only the MONOCULTURALISM of mohammed.

otherise your just a meanie

abandonconflict said:

Zionism is not Judaism.

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and medieval serfs were volunteers.