How to accurately measure pH???

ebgms

Active Member
I've been growing for many years but I am totally new to pH and tbh I don't understand it at all.

To make matters worse, I cannot seem to accurately measure it no matter which method I use.

For example, I recently purchased a pH test kit where you fill up a test tube half way with the water you want to test, put 3-5 drops of testing liquid in the test tube, then compare the color it makes with the color on a chart. That's what I was working with today.

I needed to water my plants today, so I tested the pH of the water without nutes, the water with the nutes, and the runoff water. The tap water tested at 7.0, the nute-water tested at 6.0 and the runoff tested at 4.5. This made me think I had a too low pH problem, perhaps causing nutrient antagonists, so I decided to flush (plants are in 3gal pots).

After flushing with three gallons of 7.0 pH tap water the runoff tested at 5.0 pH. After six gallons it tested at 5.5 pH. After nine, 6.0 pH and after twelve gallons per three gallon pot the runoff water was finally testing at 6.5 pH. This is the ideal pH for dirt according to the nutrient chart.

I then watered with 6.0 pH nute-water and put the plants back in the cab.

Now, here's where things go off the rails. After each 3gal flush, I saved a sample of the runoff water. So I have glasses with runoff in them after 3gal flush, 6gal flush, 9gal flush and 12gal flush. I just tested them again, now six hours after the flush, and they now ALL test 7.0 pH.

The only runoff sample that tests the same is the first one I took before the flush. It still tests at 4.5 pH.

What is going on here? How can water that was testing at 5.0 PH six hours ago and just sitting in a glass, with nothing added or removed from it, baseify itself 100x and now be testing at 7.0 pH?

That's got to be either a measurement error (my fault) or instrument error (the test kit's fault) because such data just doesn't seem plausible to me, unless I'm missing something?

The only thing I can think of is I covered the first sample (the one testing at 4.5 pH) with plastic wrap but didn't cover any of the other samples (the ones now testing at 7.0 pH that were testing at 5.0, 5.5, 6.0 and 6.5 respectively). The glasses are just sitting on the kitchen counter, no visible dust or contamination. I wouldn't think so, but could that possibly have any effect, and what do you think is the best, most reliable way to measure pH?

Thank you.
 

ebgms

Active Member
Let’s start with, what is your grow media?
3 gallon soil pots.

Ph the water going in, most commercial soils are buffered and the ph will rise as the water infiltrates through the soil.
Yes, that is what I noticed. With each 3gal flush the pH went up ~0.5.

What I don't get is why the same runoff water that was testing at 5.0 a minute after I collected it is now testing at 7.0 six hours later, after having just sat in a glass on the kitchen counter the whole time. Which is the accurate number, 5.0, 7.0 or none of the above?
 

ec121

Well-Known Member
I needed to water my plants today, so I tested the pH of the water without nutes, the water with the nutes, and the runoff water. The tap water tested at 7.0, the nute-water tested at 6.0 and the runoff tested at 4.5. This made me think I had a too low pH problem, perhaps causing nutrient antagonists, so I decided to flush (plants are in 3gal pots).

After flushing with three gallons of 7.0 pH tap water the runoff tested at 5.0 pH. After six gallons it tested at 5.5 pH. After nine, 6.0 pH and after twelve gallons per three gallon pot the runoff water was finally testing at 6.5 pH. This is the ideal pH for dirt according to the nutrient chart.
Stop measuring your runoff pH. Stop flushing your plants. No, seriously. Putting 12 gallons through a 3 gallon pot is leaching the dry amendments out of the soil. Now you're going to have to re-amend or feed bottled nutrients sooner.

Keep in mind: you are not growing numbers; you are growing plants.

How do your plants look? Water with the right pH, and save yourself all that time you're wasting worrying about what's coming out of the bottom - your plants certainly don't give a shit about runoff pH numbers.
 

ebgms

Active Member
The buffers were probably washed into the solution, they don’t act immediately, they slowly raise PH.
So the test I did immediately after collecting the water is more accurate than the test I did on it six hours later, due to the delayed action of the buffers?
 

ebgms

Active Member
Stop measuring your runoff pH. Stop flushing your plants. No, seriously. Putting 12 gallons through a 3 gallon pot is leaching the dry amendments out of the soil.
It's not something I have ever done before. Sometimes I will flush 3gal pots with 3-6 gal of water if I overfeed or otherwise mess something up. I just wanted to see if I could get the pH in the right range, which I did eventually.

Keep in mind: you are not growing numbers; you are growing plants.
Totally agree, but according to the nutrient chart, if the pH numbers aren't right, I'm not growing plants, I'm starving them.

How do your plants look?
Very bad. Most fan leaves on upper 2/3 of plants damaged or dead. Bud leaves beginning to die. Suspected calcium and/or phosphorous deficiency and/or antagonist. Have been feeding cow mag for two weeks, flower booster since buds set and it's not stopping or slowing the plants dying at all.

I'll put up some pics tomorrow when the lights are back on.

Water with the right pH, and save yourself all that time you're wasting worrying about what's coming out of the bottom - your plants certainly don't give a shit about runoff pH numbers.
What is the right pH for water? My straight tap water is 7.0 pH, once I put the nutes in it tests at 6.0 pH. The chart says 6.0-7.0 pH is good for dirt, do you agree?

Also on my next grow I'm thinking of adding dolomite lime to the dirt before I put the plants in. Do you think that will help keep the PH balanced along with watering with the right pH water?

Thanks.
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
1. If you're just giving plain water, don't water to runoff.
2. If you're just giving plain water (no nutes), don't ph.
3. Either way, don't measure runoff. It'll have you chasing ph values, and it's not necessary.
 

ec121

Well-Known Member
Totally agree, but according to the nutrient chart, if the pH numbers aren't right, I'm not growing plants, I'm starving them.
Those pH numbers aren't numbers from runoff. But yes, soil pH is a thing.


Very bad. Most fan leaves on upper 2/3 of plants damaged or dead. Bud leaves beginning to die. Suspected calcium and/or phosphorous deficiency and/or antagonist. Have been feeding cow mag for two weeks, flower booster since buds set and it's not stopping or slowing the plants dying at all.

I'll put up some pics tomorrow when the lights are back on.
So you're feeding bottled nutrients? What is the EC or PPM of that nutrient mix? We'll wait for pics.

Also on my next grow I'm thinking of adding dolomite lime to the dirt before I put the plants in. Do you think that will help keep the PH balanced along with watering with the right pH water?

Thanks.
What is the soil that you're using?
 

ebgms

Active Member
So you're feeding bottled nutrients?
Jacks Classic 20-20-20, Flower Fuel 2-34-32, Cal-Mag.

What is the EC or PPM of that nutrient mix?
I don't know. I use 1/2-3/4 teaspoon Jacks, 1/4 teaspoon Flower Fuel and 5ml Cal-Mag per gallon.

What is the soil that you're using?
A local nursery brand potting soil for container and potted plants. The drainage is good.

We'll wait for pics.
Taken today 9/13:

P1010169.JPGP1010170.JPGP1010171.JPGP1010172.JPGP1010151.JPGP1010152.JPG
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
To ensure appropriate pH at the root zone to promote adequate nutrient absorption.

View attachment 5326224
There's a big part of your problem right there if you are depending on a chart like that. It gives the impression that some nutrients are totally unavailable once a certain pH level is reached which is totally wrong.

A chart like this is more indicative of what really goes on.

soil_ph_nutrient_availability.jpg

Chasing a particular pH in soil is and endless game of chance and even professional growers with real training admit it's just ballpark accuracy using much better equipment than the average hobby grower. With real soil and organics the only pH testing you should do is of the water you use for your plants. Runoff water contains too many contaminants for accurate testing so what you get there is meaningless.

I get my grows with DWC using RO water and AN pH Perfect nutes and never test pH. 2nd best is using Promix HP with the same water and nutes. Outdoors I do fine in real dirt but indoors I just can't seem to replicate that success with organics.

I've only been growing pot since 1978 so still have a lot to learn.

:peace:
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Jacks Classic 20-20-20, Flower Fuel 2-34-32, Cal-Mag.



I don't know. I use 1/2-3/4 teaspoon Jacks, 1/4 teaspoon Flower Fuel and 5ml Cal-Mag per gallon.



A local nursery brand potting soil for container and potted plants. The drainage is good.



Taken today 9/13:

View attachment 5326227View attachment 5326228View attachment 5326229View attachment 5326230View attachment 5326231View attachment 5326232
Toxic salts buildup from overfeeding long term. Frying your plants man.

:peace:
 

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
A local nursery brand potting soil for container and potted plants. The drainage is good.
It probably isn't if you didn't add some.
Cannabis loves fast draining soil, hates having wet feet.
Further prevents salt-buildup and overwatering too.
Jacks Classic 20-20-20, Flower Fuel 2-34-32, Cal-Mag.
I don't know. I use 1/2-3/4 teaspoon Jacks, 1/4 teaspoon Flower Fuel and 5ml Cal-Mag per gallon.
You need an EC meter man. Working blind without it.
I've been growing for many years but I am totally new to pH and tbh I don't understand it at all.

To make matters worse, I cannot seem to accurately measure it no matter which method I use.
It's because the method you used is completely wrong.
You need to take a soil sample, use a soil test kit, then match the soil sample to provided colour chart.
And, you must consider where your soil sample was taken from, because it can vary.

You can also make a slurry with soil sample and distilled water, to test with a pen.

But I recommend getting a soil pH test kit, because they're cheap and accurate if used correctly.
 

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ISK

Well-Known Member
For example, I recently purchased a pH test kit where you fill up a test tube half way with the water you want to test, put 3-5 drops of testing liquid in the test tube, then compare the color it makes with the color on a chart. That's what I was working with today.
Only fill the test tube about 1/4 full then add the 3 drops.

P5290051.JPG
 

obijohn

Well-Known Member
Unless your local water is really fucked up, no need to worry about PH. I've never paid attention much to PH except when feeding. Grow Big doesn't seem to affect the PH enough where I need to adjust. Tiger Bloom is something else though, before adding PH up my test tube color is even darker red than the photo above this post. takes a bit to get into the light green area. And I use one half or less the recommended dosage for nutes, I like feeding light amounts more often
 
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