How many of you are going to bitch about Obama care after 2016?

Rob Roy said:

In order for the government to "take care of" anyone, they must first take something from others right ?

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Rob Roy said:

Excuse me sir, but please pass the crispy bombed baby and could you have one of the prisoners bring me a glass of water?

I have to ask you AGAIN, why you support taking from people to pay for injustice and murder? THAT represents the best place in the world? You seem caught in some kind of analogy and have failed to answer why you go along with this....

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st0wandgrow said:

You can feel that way, but I think it's selfish of you.

Sure, there will be people that take more out of the system than what they put in, but that's true of everything in life. I'm fine with the "take care of yourself" approach to a lot of things, but I have a tough time accepting that someone could do everything right in life, work their ass off, and then be whipped out in the blink of an eye over medical bills. Again, peoples health and well being should be more important to us as a society than profit and greed .... otherwise we are no better than some of the third world shit-holes we mock.

If you look at the raw numbers, we spend roughly $7,500 per person per year on healthcare. Canada on the other hand spends less than half that, has better outcomes by every metric imaginable, and covers EVERYONE. Can you not get past your angst for everything government, and just look at the data?

Numbers don't lie.

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Rob Roy said:

Which charitable organizations do you volunteer your time with ?

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st0wandgrow said:

You can feel that way, but I think it's selfish of you.

Sure, there will be people that take more out of the system than what they put in, but that's true of everything in life. I'm fine with the "take care of yourself" approach to a lot of things, but I have a tough time accepting that someone could do everything right in life, work their ass off, and then be whipped out in the blink of an eye over medical bills. Again, peoples health and well being should be more important to us as a society than profit and greed .... otherwise we are no better than some of the third world shit-holes we mock.

If you look at the raw numbers, we spend roughly $7,500 per person per year on healthcare. Canada on the other hand spends less than half that, has better outcomes by every metric imaginable, and covers EVERYONE. Can you not get past your angst for everything government, and just look at the data?

Numbers don't lie.

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Mr Neutron said:

It selfish of me that I am against theft?

YOU may mock third world shit holes, as you put it, I do not. Please, do not lump me in with the "holier than thou" crowd.

How about the person that wiped out by a fradulent tax system? Is that any better than getting wiped out by exorbitant health care costs?

Obamacare does nothing to address healthcare, it is just another tax scheme with a big wet kiss for the insurance companies.

If there are some who get more than they put in, consequently there are some who put in more than others, right? You don't seem too concerned about them.

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ginjawarrior said:

i like the bombing babies/ the injustice appeal to emotion/ strawman you got going there

is the usa government going out of its way to bomb babies?






is this something that just started happening?

your country has been bombing countries (and unfortunately due to collateral damage civilians) since you were a little boy

your country has been imprisoning people above and beyond any other country since you were a little boy

it didnt seem to put you off your food during all that time

is this something that you just noticed now you got your money that you dont want taxed?


your one trick pony argument of taxation is theft Does not stand up for the burnt babies or the falsely imprisoned

it is an attempt to weasel out of paying for the advantages you've received by living there

and when i say living there i mean supporting the baby bombing and false imprisonment by proxy of contributing to your countries economy (notice i say economy and not taxes)

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st0wandgrow said:

I've done a lot of charitable work over the years .... why?

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Rob Roy said:

I'm happy to pay for things I use, not so happy to pay for things that harm others or make peaceful people pay for injustice or things they want nothing to do with. You seem caught in a paradigm of what is, is all that is possible. If my reluctance to pay for harming others is weaseling out, I think you miss my point.

So you are okay with paying to kill children ? Why?

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st0wandgrow said:

I'm not saying that Obamacare addresses anything. Just the opposite.

And yes, some will put in more than others. In a single payer system i HOPE that I put in less than I take out, because if I don't I'm likely dying of a very shitty, expensive disease.

Are you really so selfish that the thought of you paying more in to a system than someone else may leads you to say "fuck em if they can't afford it .... let them die?"

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Rob Roy said:

I'm happy to pay for things I use, not so happy to pay for things that harm others or make peaceful people pay for injustice or things they want nothing to do with. You seem caught in a paradigm of what is, is all that is possible. If my reluctance to pay for harming others is weaseling out, I think you miss my point.

So you are okay with paying to kill children ? Why?

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ginjawarrior said:

show me the effort to kill children that im supposed to be supporting??

perhaps you were trying to ask a less loaded question than that

maybe "do you support the war on terror in its current form?"

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st0wandgrow said:

I see what you're saying. I'm no fan of the war we create either, but until a system is put in place that allows us to earmark every penny we pay to be put towards only the things we want our dollars spent on, what are the alternatives?

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Rob Roy said:

It seems that selfish people might be the ones trying to tell other people how to run their lives.

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Rob Roy said:

How many children in IRAQ did U.S. bombs kill in the last few years? Ever heard of the My Lai massacre? Nagasaki or Hiroshima ring a bell? How about Wounded Knee?

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st0wandgrow said:

Believing that a basic social safety net should cover peoples health and well being is selfish? Me saying that I'm OK with paying in to a system that will insure that if my neighbor comes down with a terminal illness he and his family will be covered .... even if I don't utilize the system once, I'm still OK with it.

That's selfish?

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Rob Roy said:

Nope. You can and should be able to speak for yourself. You or a group of others should not be able to make decisions for others though without their consent and with the threat of force behind it. THAT is selfish.

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Rob Roy said:

How many children in IRAQ did U.S. bombs kill in the last few years? Ever heard of the My Lai massacre? Nagasaki or Hiroshima ring a bell? How about Wounded Knee?

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ginjawarrior said:

oh yes i remember those wars they were set about with the objective to kill as many children as possible in fact that was the only objective of the war

to bomb children

so i take it now that the usa is no longer on its "kill children" campaign in iraq you have no problem paying taxes?

i think your getting a bit lost in your hyperbole there rob (especially as you continue to support your countries actions by staying in it)

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Rob Roy said:

Nope. You can and should be able to speak for yourself. You or a group of others should not be able to make decisions for others though without their consent and with the threat of force behind it. THAT is selfish.

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Rob Roy said:

Physically being in a place is not an active act of support, but paying for bombs to kill kids is. By being in the USA are you saying you support pot prohibition?

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