How long for pre-germed seeds to break soil????

I figure this is a common newb question and I am a newb to this so this is the place for me....

I pre-soaked 6 old ass bag seed in a mild pHed epsom + superthrive 000ppm RO/DI solution last Wednesday at a constant temp of 85deg F for 24 hours. Then placed them in paper towel damped with the same solution and kept them at the same 85deg. 4 of the 6 cracked, which surprised the shit out of me considering I have not the foggiest how old the seeds are other than they are at least 2 years old and were not kept in the best conditions. This last Sunday I planted the popped beans in a screened 50/50 peat & composted steer manure mix which I then cut 50/50 with perlite. I mix my soil in 15 gallon batches and to that I add 1/4 cup agricultural gypsum,1/4 cup epsom salt, 1 cup blood meal, 1 cup cotton seed meal, 1 cup kelp meal, 2 cups fish bone meal and 2 cups rock dust. This is my standard tomato and pepper mix and it's never failed me before. I set the seeds in a < 1/4" depression misted until damp with pHed RO/DI, covered with the soil mix and then misted heavily, but not soaked. The 4 starter pots were then place in a humidity dome and have been kept in the dark at a constant temp of 82deg F since. I've misted the soil once a day since. This is also my standard procedure starting my peppers and maters and it is highly successful for them. Not one seed has broken the soil yet. I figure with each bean cracking and showing from 1/8" to 1/4" of tap root that they are viable seeds. Am I being an impatient cook watching his water waiting for it to boil so to speak and need to just be patient?? Or have I screwed up somehow from the get go??

This is my first go at growing the sweet sweet herb. But I've been organic gardening fruits and veggies from seed for over a decade. I'm psyched to get these babies in my cabinet. Just posting here for input and to maybe put my mind at ease a little while I wait. I haven't had this kind of anxiety since waiting in the doc's office for my vasectomy.... odd how a growing a simple plant can wind me up so much. In the end if I dicked the bag seed up... no big loss. I am going to do a few grows with the old seed I have left to get a couple grows under my belt before I pop the seed I paid for.

Thanks

mine usually break the soil 1 day after planting under some t5's

Thanks.... I sort of figured I had a dud batch. Odd that they'd crack and produce a tap root but not take off in soil.

I use a little dome t5 light and I put a heating pad under the dome to warm the soil. Get it very wet and keep it wet and they are up two or three inches in just a few days. The ones I have right now I planted at 6pm on a friday and monday morning when I woke up they were up.

A few hours to a day woke up this morning after leaving some fresh sprouts outside to harden for the guerilla sites damn birds got to me.

As long as you don't plant them too deep then 1 or 2 days...
I have better luck just dropping the seed into the soil...usually.

Wow, that's alot of love for some old bag seed. If you are really impatient you can uproot them to see if the taproot is still growing but I would wait at least 1 week before pronouncing them dead.

regards,

i didn't read the op, but you only want to plant them about as deep as the seed is wide, so about 1/4 inch or so.. any deeper and sometimes they might have trouble breaking the surface..

WyoGrow said:

Thanks.... I sort of figured I had a dud batch. Odd that they'd crack and produce a tap root but not take off in soil.

Click to expand...

don't give up so soon. i once had a seed sprout from the soil it had accidentally gotten into, but it was like a month after planting, and from half a foot deep

"Wow, that's alot of love for some old bag seed."
Yeah... but it's the process I use for almost all of my plants I start from seed. So I am not actually doing anything "above and beyond". In truth is was pretty killer weed for being fertilized and loaded with seed. I'm sorta looking forward to how this kind smokes if it's taken care of and allowed to grow to harvest unfertilized.

"i didn't read the op, but you only want to plant them about as deep as the seed is wide, so about 1/4 inch or so.."
All were planted right at or a little less than 1/4" deep

"don't give up so soon."
I don't get home until the 11th. My wife does a good job of taking care of stuff when I am gone. Good thing she smokes as much as I do and is as excited about growing as I am. But she leave the planting, transplanting and what not to me. So they will be getting another week and a half or so to do their thing.

"I have better luck just dropping the seed into the soil...usually."
I just might have to give that a shot. But I've always had better luck pre-sprouting. At least then I know if the seed is viable before it's in the ground. Then if they don't come up I know there is an issue of some sore. Some seeds sprout but don't develop though. Just odd I got 4 to start (2 real strong) just to fizzle once in dirt.


Thanks for the input guys. I do appreciate it. About the only thing that stands out that I am doing different from you guys is I don't have them under light. I've never bothered putting my seedlings under light until they break the soil. I just keep them warm and moist.

I don't think the light makes much difference as long as they are warm enough. I used to pre germinate, but after a couple of failures, I've gone back to the soil method. I think that the tap roots were getting damaged somehow. Good luck!

Make sure that you water enough when the seeds are planted that deep or prewet the soil. In quick drying mixes, the top soil layer dries out fast and could kill the seed before the tap root got too far out of the seed. Try to mimic paper towel moisture levels at first.

NJhate, thanks for the tip. The planters containing the seeds are in a humidity dome and misted down 2 a day to keep them damp.

My wife was curious and sorted through the dirt. She found the cracked seeds in all 4 with no roots. Would explain why they didn't break the soil. I've had less than optimum condition seeds (no MJ) do this to me before. They seem to have enough umph to crack but not enough to do anything else. She is going to stick 4 more seeds directly in the planters today TLC style. For really PITA seeds like kiwi and leeks I place them in a shallow dpression I make with the end of a pen, wet, place pre-soaked seed, then cover with vermiculite and press down gently. This method seems to be the trick fo seed that doesn't seem to have the strength to break regular soil... even if it's loose. If it can't push through vermiculite then it's probably not strong enough to bother with.

Did i read that you had superthrive in your water mixture? For sprouts you really dont need any nutes. They have enough in them to get through the soil. You may have shocked them or something. I would do just light addicitive to first soil cup and wait a couple weeks to fert in water. And first superthrive when i transplant.

I do like pregerming though. seems to take a couple-few days off that process.

I batch up my pre-soak and germ water a gallon at a time and what I don't use I water houseplants with. It's RO/DI water which is generally pH 7 right out of my filter. Sometimes it's a touch higher and I adjust it to neutral. To that I add 2tblsp of Epsom Salt and 4 drops Superthrive. The Epsom treatment is a proven deal. It inoculates the seed with Mag and gets photosynthesis and initial cell growth off to a roaring start. The Superthrive has been a family thing I guess. Grandparents loved it, folks loved it.... now I love it. If a casual observer saw regular plants vs ST plants they may not notice a big difference. But tending to them I usually always see a noticeable difference in the overall health of the plant over it's entire life cycle when I use it. May just be my imagination though too.... sort of a placebo thing in my mind. But doing a google search you'll see a lot of gardeners, including pot growers, doing it. The idea behind it is to give the seeds a shot of essential compounds that may not available in the soil yet.

My first plant took 1-2 days

BTW, I like to pre-germ most everything. But especially in single seed applications like corn, beans, peas and such. Makes for even rows in the garden when you know you are planting live germinated seeds vs dropping un-germed seed in the ground one at a time and then replanting in the holes where the seed didn't sprout. Or sticking 3+ seeds in each hole and thinning back to the strongest plant if more than one come up. It also shaves days off the sprout time over just popping dry seed in the ground because the seed takes longer to absorb the water it needs to activate in soil.

I got impatient today so i dug most of the 16 up found 7 that almost broke the soil,so i just put the tap root in the dirt leaving the seed and husk on top and misted. A few hours later the husk was gone and the first sets of leaves are showing. Im using 400 watt mh and will switch to hps when preflowers show btw im doing 12/12 from seed.

Classic example of what I always say - why are people going out of their way to make life and growing weed complicated?#

All seeds need or want is moisture and darkness. They don't need nor want fancy this, stimulate that, nute this, nute that, just old fashioned water. Typically 24 hours soak and the taproot will be out. Pop her a cm under the soil or so, cover, water, leave the hell alone. Couple days, as long as 10 days (albight rarer), before the seed springs into life. So many people have no patience and end up poking around, trying this, trying that, when all they really need is time. In half decent soil, the now germinated plant doesn't need or want any special nutes either until it hits a stage of fast growth.

Germination is simply a case of water being absorbed into the seed, once it gets enough water the cells start to divide and growth is triggered.

It really is that simple, no fancy nutes, no stimulation, no fuck all - water, darkness, patience = a happier growing experience.

Edit: I'm not having a go or moaning, or meaning to sound harsh, its just its easy to put so much effort and love in, and that often kills things or causes lots of problems. Simple is king.