How is this even possible?

Jack Larson said:

By difference, I meant the leaves should green up.
You are better off waiting until your local grow shop opens. A lot of commercial mag/cal supplements are too astringint to use as a folier spray. Super Natural makes one called Green Stay, but the one I like is the Botannicare.

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Thank you! I will go tomorrow then. I was going to add dolomite lime as I found FF OF on the East Coast is known to be very acidic. And in general known for its lack of cal-mag. Would this make sense? I also have a post about my clones taken from these plants. They are getting brown and yellow spotting. Could that be due to their parents lack of cal-mag? And if so, should a folier spray help? Thanks!!

I use botanicare cal/mag also. I've found I have to use even more than the specified 1spn per gal. I use more like 1.5

as for the clones , any tissue taken from a plant def. in nutes will be def. as well and that combined with the lack of roots is the issue. give them a moore complete spray with N,P and K [cold pressed sea kelp] works well.

It has been about 2 weeks, and this is what I have done...

I gave up on trying to get the pH runoff in check because I have read that it is not all that relevant and also I am just going to give up on FoxFarm Ocean Forest and go with Coco. Not just for this reason, but for others as well. Regardless, I am still seeing the same old problems. I have added a Cal-Mag nute at its recommended dosage. I am also now adding Super Thrive. I am getting this same spotting issue as before. You can see in the following picture that the older leaves are getting the spotting while the newer are coming in nicely.



I wanted to also show the same strain in my flower tent is in its 7th week of flowering and the buds are looking good. But the leaves are showing the same signs as in my veg tent. I would not say they (the spots) have progressed much. This can be seen here...



And here is a pic of a bud. Not a great pic, but just to get the idea that its not all bad...



I do want to be clear that I am still using the FoxFarm line-up and RO water. There is absolutely no sign of pests. And in my veg tent I have 4 moms that are about 10 weeks old. I removed ALL leaves with any sign of spotting. I did this so I could tell if I was making progress. A week later and you can see from the pictures above, no such luck.

Any suggestions on where to go from here? Thank you, thank you, thank you.

did you get magi cal? or ca mag +? is it from general hydro?

still looks like a mag. defciency, or it's ozone damage.
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/1469-marijuana-plant-problems-cures.html

VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO said:

still looks like a mag. defciency, or it's ozone damage.
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/1469-marijuana-plant-problems-cures.html

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You think maybe I should try some epsom salt? I have previously leached the soil and need to do it again soon. Just as an FYI, it did not help before, but of course I am gong to continue that regiment. The last thing I was thinking was, what if the plants are root bound...could that cause this? The entire pH problem with FFOF sucks. Spending that kind of money to get a medium of acid is a shame.

johnnygrows said:

I have been what I assume to be pH issues (all sorts of signs of nute deficiency). I have read that run-off pH is critical to it doesn't mean anything. So assuming it is just a preference, lack of understanding among all, or dependent upon environmental variables, how come I cannot get my pH of my runoff up? I just went through 9 gallons of RO water at 7.4 and the runoff started at 5.2 and is now 5.8. But I cannot get it up to 6.2 to 6.8. I read to flush until it gets to the desired pH. I have 3 3 gallon buckets full of Ocean Forest, which I know is known for its issues...but I am stuck with it right now. Any ideas? Thanks!

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When I first started, I would water with 6.5 and my plants looked like they weren't doing too well.
When I PH'd the run-off, I noticed that FFOF seems to lower my PH by approx 1.5points
so I started watering with 8PH water to give me approx 6.5PH run-off, and ever since I started
doing that, my plants look MUCH healthier!

medicalgrowman said:

When I first started, I would water with 6.5 and my plants looked like they weren't doing too well.
When I PH'd the run-off, I noticed that FFOF seems to lower my PH by approx 1.5points
so I started watering with 8PH water to give me approx 6.5PH run-off, and ever since I started
doing that, my plants look MUCH healthier!

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Now that you say that, I did drop my pH back to 6.8, where I was previous dumping in high 7s. I will try increasing the pH and see how it goes. Thank you!

backwoodsburner said:

cal mag plus epsom salt will overload your plants with mg.

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I agree, but still seeing signs of deficiency. Like I just posted, I am going to try to get the pH up and hopefully it will get rid of any potential lock. Thanks!!!

Looks like pH issues to me.

Look up "pH spotting."

The plant will never heal itself, these spots are permanent. The idea is to get them to stop from getting worse. The best course of action for that is a little pH buffering Cal-Mag in the form of Dolomite garden lime and to ensure your in and out pH are within the healthy ranges.

I think they'll pull through... But god... Looks so much like mite damage...

Snow Crash said:

Looks like pH issues to me.

Look up "pH spotting."

The plant will never heal itself, these spots are permanent. The idea is to get them to stop from getting worse. The best course of action for that is a little pH buffering Cal-Mag in the form of Dolomite garden lime and to ensure your in and out pH are within the healthy ranges.

I think they'll pull through... But god... Looks so much like mite damage...

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I will look that up, thank you. I added lime about 2-3 weeks ago to the soil. It just seems that the damn Fox Farm Ocean Forest is SO acidic that I am afraid to do too much in fear that I will cause more harm than good. I am trying small changes. The big problem is that I have to bring up the pH above 8 just to get a healthy out on the low end. And I have read so much contradiction on pH out, that I just gave up on getting it right. Unfortunately I am stuck with this soil for another 12 weeks. I think coco is going to work best for me.

And yes, it does look like mite damage...and at this point, I think I would rather have that since I would at least have a solution! Thanks!!!

johnnygrows said:

I will look that up, thank you. I added lime about 2-3 weeks ago to the soil. It just seems that the damn Fox Farm Ocean Forest is SO acidic that I am afraid to do too much in fear that I will cause more harm than good. I am trying small changes. The big problem is that I have to bring up the pH above 8 just to get a healthy out on the low end. And I have read so much contradiction on pH out, that I just gave up on getting it right. Unfortunately I am stuck with this soil for another 12 weeks. I think coco is going to work best for me.

And yes, it does look like mite damage...and at this point, I think I would rather have that since I would at least have a solution! Thanks!!!

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You never, ever, high-low your system.

You look at the deviance, not just what is coming out. Your pH is dropping by 1.5pts, which is huge. Think of it this way... what comes out is the "middle" of what you added and what is in the media. In this case, if you add 8.0, you get 6.5, then the actual media could be as low as 5.0 (6.5 minus the deviance of 1.5).

That's what it is telling you right now, but what you are seeing is a 6.5ph runoff and you think that is okay... It most definitely is not.

You have to get the pH under control.

Never, ever, use a pH that is out of range. If the runoff is too acidic then you need more pH buffering elements and you need to flush out the excess in the media that is causing this low pH. It has to be coming from somewhere.

So use a 7.0pH solution and use as much of it as you need to, to get to 6.5pH coming out. Get at least 1 gallon to drain out, then start measuring every 2 liters (1/2 gallon). So, 1/2 gallon at a time, collect it, test it. And keep going until you see it climbing.

Once the pH starts to climb up around 6.0 to 6.2 then you top dress with more lime, 1Tbls per gallon of soil, and continue to run 2L at a time. The pH should then be much easier for the lime to balance out and in about 1 gallon more water you should see the pH creep up over 6.5.

From that point onward you never use a pH solution that is above 7.0, or below 6.5, and you always use as much of that solution as required to get your runoff in the right spot. If you see your runoff starting to drop quick again, then add more dolomite to recondition the pH buffer, and it should balance back out again.

It's what I do. Don't worry about it.

I had to sift through so much misinformation and bad advice when I was a new grower that I feel the obligation to spread the wisdom now.

I figure the more I help, and the more the community knows as a whole, the less people will have to dig through as time goes on with a greater and greater knowledge base. Don't thank me, just pay it forward. Figure, if I tell 10 people, and they tell 10 people, and they tell 10 people, that's 1,000 people who know something now that they didn't before.

Snow Crash said:

It's what I do. Don't worry about it.

I had to sift through so much misinformation and bad advice when I was a new grower that I feel the obligation to spread the wisdom now.

I figure the more I help, and the more the community knows as a whole, the less people will have to dig through as time goes on with a greater and greater knowledge base. Don't thank me, just pay it forward. Figure, if I tell 10 people, and they tell 10 people, and they tell 10 people, that's 1,000 people who know something now that they didn't before.

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I would be glad to...once I work the kinks out!

So now I am getting 9.0 out. Apparently I over did it with the lime. No idea, I just used a little less than a tablespoon. Now I am flush, flush, flushing. Any other suggestions than to keep pouring water through? Thanks.

Also, I used Hydrated Lime since I was told it would accomplish the same thing. I also read that Lime sits at a pH of 7. More misinformation? Thanks.

Oh... dude... no...

Well. Can't say I didn't try.

Espoma Garden Lime. The difference between Dolomite garden lime and Hydrated lime is the magnesium content. I have no idea what you did to your system, but you definitely added a butt load of calcium.

Now you use a 6.5 solution and keep flushing until you get under 7.0pH.

You're making this harder on yourself, and your plant, then you needed to. Whoever told you it was the same stuff mislead you. I am sorry.

Dolomite Lime is called "Garden" lime for a reason...

johnnygrows said:

It has been about 2 weeks, and this is what I have done...

I gave up on trying to get the pH runoff in check because I have read that it is not all that relevant and also I am just going to give up on FoxFarm Ocean Forest and go with Coco. Not just for this reason, but for others as well. Regardless, I am still seeing the same old problems. I have added a Cal-Mag nute at its recommended dosage. I am also now adding Super Thrive. I am getting this same spotting issue as before. You can see in the following picture that the older leaves are getting the spotting while the newer are coming in nicely.

View attachment 1533921

I wanted to also show the same strain in my flower tent is in its 7th week of flowering and the buds are looking good. But the leaves are showing the same signs as in my veg tent. I would not say they (the spots) have progressed much. This can be seen here...

View attachment 1533926

And here is a pic of a bud. Not a great pic, but just to get the idea that its not all bad...

View attachment 1533927

I do want to be clear that I am still using the FoxFarm line-up and RO water. There is absolutely no sign of pests. And in my veg tent I have 4 moms that are about 10 weeks old. I removed ALL leaves with any sign of spotting. I did this so I could tell if I was making progress. A week later and you can see from the pictures above, no such luck.

Any suggestions on where to go from here? Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Click to expand...

My suggestion would be to go back to basics and think laterally, dope plants are super resiliant, it needs air light and water, dont over complicate things with ph levels, nutes, feeding schedules etc...... firstly, check your ventilation, make sure its sufficient and not causing negative or positive pressure in the grow environment, make sure theres lots of moving air within the grow environment, this also promotes strong stems and trunks, check you lights and lighting distances, get a bag of special blend coco, its already at perfect moisture, ph & nutrient content outta the bag, drop your ladies in it, DO NOT water or feed anything for first 4 days, then tap water thereafter, sounds like to me, as your not experienced with these things that your flying by the seat of your pants which will end with your ladies dying, repot them and feed straight tap water. good luck.

Snow Crash said:

Oh... dude... no...

Well. Can't say I didn't try.

Espoma Garden Lime. The difference between Dolomite garden lime and Hydrated lime is the magnesium content. I have no idea what you did to your system, but you definitely added a butt load of calcium.

Now you use a 6.5 solution and keep flushing until you get under 7.0pH.

You're making this harder on yourself, and your plant, then you needed to. Whoever told you it was the same stuff mislead you. I am sorry.

Dolomite Lime is called "Garden" lime for a reason...

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Its not all bad I suppose...it is called Horticultural Hydrated Lime and also on the back refers to itself as Garden Lime. I will flush and flush and get the pH down. I will update you again. Thank you!

[420]Haze;5557425 said:

My suggestion would be to go back to basics and think laterally, dope plants are super resiliant, it needs air light and water, dont over complicate things with ph levels, nutes, feeding schedules etc...... firstly, check your ventilation, make sure its sufficient and not causing negative or positive pressure in the grow environment, make sure theres lots of moving air within the grow environment, this also promotes strong stems and trunks, check you lights and lighting distances, get a bag of special blend coco, its already at perfect moisture, ph & nutrient content outta the bag, drop your ladies in it, DO NOT water or feed anything for first 4 days, then tap water thereafter, sounds like to me, as your not experienced with these things that your flying by the seat of your pants which will end with your ladies dying, repot them and feed straight tap water. good luck.

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Thank you. I agree about the resilience...I would have killed them several times already if they were not! Ha. All that you mention is good. I am DEFINITELY moving to coco after this experience. Thank you for your suggestions!!!