How far can "ripeness" be pushed?

CheGueVapo said:

Why? Thats a valid argue. You want to have that again, and thats the easiest way. Totally legit.

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Keepers dont come along very often

CheGueVapo said:

If you like it that much in first place, get some seeds again...

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They were 10yr old regular beans. That breeder only offers fems now.
Very few sprouted, and the lone female was a runt. Stunk of skunk even during veg. Frosty, strong and great flavor. Still kicking myself years later

Sometimes you must get over somebody

Back on topic.. I should have let that one go longer

Looks pretty ripe, low green and nice. Well done.

But i dont like whats got in the glass, looks so darkish gray. is that budrott?

CheGueVapo said:

Theres people growing the same mother for multiple years.... they experience the same: The quality of the final product of the cuttings lowers.... its unavoidable, because the conditions dont require it to keep on doing that!

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This bold statement is just flat out false. Its been proven time and time again over the years that clones don't just degrade over time. If you keep a happy healthy mother and/or replacement clones you can keep strong genetics indefinitely.

If your plants get damaged by a virus, pathogen or genetic mutation from harsh conditions then sure they can degrade over time. But myself and millions of other growers have kept genetics for many years without any loss in quality or yields over time because we keep the plants healthy.

Thundercat said:

Its been proven time and time again over the years that clones don't just degrade over time. If you keep a happy healthy mother and/or replacement clones you can keep strong genetics indefinitely.

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Quote me the source of the proof, please. Thank you in advance! I like to KNOW if thats true!

Thundercat said:

If you keep a happy

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Blabla... yo you must give high intensity... or it does degrade, because it doesnt need to protect from light anymore.... your indoor lamp is not sufficient to make her that happy with so few µmols of a MotherVegg the people drive! Not say happy... but LIGHT-STRESSED.


It doesnt grow resin for the fun of it because its happy! Oh man!

CheGueVapo said:

Quote me the source of the proof, please. Thank you in advance! I like to KNOW if thats true!

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The purpose of the forum is to save and share knowledge. @Thundercat has been here a long time and doing just that.
"source of the proof"... lmao.

Quick tip, Grow some plants, and share your knowledge

Let’s talk epigenetics and the environment
The field of epigenetics offers valuable insights for understanding how cannabis clones can appear to lose potency. Epigenetics refers to outside stimuli, or modifications, that can turn genes on or off. It’s not that there is an alteration of the genetic code in the clone; rather, environmental factors modify its genetic potential and expression.


“Epigenetic impacts on clone health over time are very significant. Without proper mineral nutrition and biological health, the vigor of a clone will diminish over time as it continually is replicated, thus reducing its viability,” said Russell Pace III, President of the Cannabis Horticultural Association.

Genes load the gun, but the environment pulls the trigger.

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Epigenetics provides us with a more nuanced understanding of the nature versus nurture paradox. Genes load the gun, as the saying goes, but the environment pulls the trigger.

So now that we know successive generations of cannabis clones aren’t genetically inferior in some way, what are some of the environmental factors or stressors that affect the growth of clones?

Environmental stressors that affect clones
Environmental elements that are essential to optimizing clone potency include the maintenance of appropriate levels of light....

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There you have it.... now whats your source of information?

CheGueVapo said:

Does cloning ruin cannabis strains over time?

Science says that clones are exact copies of their mother—so why do some strains degrade after years of cloning? Read on to find out why.

www.leafly.com

There you have it.... now whats your source of information?

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Silly muppet
Leafly is not a source.

The source isnt directly leafly, they just report and interview.

said Russell Pace III, President of the Cannabis Horticultural Association.

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Valid source enough. more valid than: having been long time in a forum saving and sharing knowledge...lmao

Boatguy said:

Silly muppet

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Please, little Motherfucker, just tell me when you want to stop the insulting.

The idea that mother plants decline over time, or that clones decline over time as they are grown out and re-cloned, is just old bro-science. I've kept mother plants alive for 8 years with no decline in quality, and I know a guy with a White Widow mommy from 1995 that is still going strong.

When you always smoke the same dope you dont even recognize what it was before. You are fine and satisfied, but you need smoke more and more. Bring it to the lab and proove to me it has the same THC after 8 years cloning from it.... i dont believe you!

One mistake is enough for a instant decline in quality of the cuttings! One single!

So this article stresses that lighting soil nutrients and environment all play a role in the success of your clones and that if everything is maintained in optimal condition that you can maintain a healthy mother and multiple generations of clones with no degradation. It also states that there are very few scientific studies have been completed.

it also states that pregnant female plants do have a genetic change but that is only when they are pollenated and produce seeds. It did not state info about revegged plants that were not pollinated. Which is why I suggested doing an experiment with lab testing.

the articles point of remove pieces of DNA through taking cuttings assumes that one is taking cuttings from younger branches that haven’t matured losing the end strand of DNA. These are a result of not taking proper cuttings. I’m not saying that there is a perfect solution, but I think that these points expose a bigger issue with the industry and that is “breeding” or rather the fact that breeders rarely breed to genetic stability. Most of the seeds on the market are BX, F1-F3, but it’s rarer you find something that is a F9+ lineage. As a result if you were to analyze the DNA of 500 different seeds, you may find two that actually exhibit the traits you want. So expecting someone to be able to grow another seed and get the same results is slim. Which is why people are cloning in the first place. Reading breeders descriptions of their genetics they will list that there are 4 different phenotypes but in reality they are just claiming plant structure and not looking at cannabanoid or terpene profiles as well.

In America each state that has legalized has various growing laws. Some states only allow you to have 4 plants while others allow you to grow up to 12. That is not enough plants to run a successful breeding program, which is why we have to rely on larger grow operations for genetic stability.

so there isn’t just one solution to the problem. And because of a lot of factors the key is finding the solution to the problem at an individual level. We all don’t eat the same food, find the same people attractive, or all like the same bands. Why would everyone agree on a single solution like weed is a singularity?

Cloning is also not a new idea: it’s at least 2,000 years old. Probably even older. People forget that things like cement were actually rediscovered, not discovered for the first time in modern society. And again even CRISPR uses nature’s process of repairing genes by manipulating the protein that is being repaired in the DNA strand. When DNA is repaired it grabs the closet protein available. So if the protein that is closest is changed then the DNA sequence is changed after it’s repaired. But my point is cannabis was not the first plant to be cloned nor will it be the last. And even tissue grafting happens all the time in nature. It easiest to view when you see an old tree stump that has a sapling growing out of it. The sapling is using the old trees root system. Understanding the processes of nature is the only way to advance “technology” but really it’s just learning the lessons of Gaia.

What is the most nutrient soil on earth and how is it created? Volcanic ash (also known as Azomite)

what breaks down the nutrients in nature and makes them bioavailable to plants? mycelium
what creates the terpene profiles of the various cannabis strains? The terpene profile of the soil the strain was naturalized to

how you use that knowledge is up to you.

Fucking leafly hahaha

CheGueVapo said:

Does cloning ruin cannabis strains over time?

Science says that clones are exact copies of their mother—so why do some strains degrade after years of cloning? Read on to find out why.

www.leafly.com

There you have it.... now whats your source of information?

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You going to start posting groweedeasy links next?

CheGueVapo said:

The source isnt directly leafly, they just report and interview.

Valid source enough. more valid than: having been long time in a forum saving and sharing knowledge...lmao

Please, little Motherfucker, just tell me when you want to stop the insulting.

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If you really feel that way, you should keep reading there and ignore folks that have been here growing and contributing for decades.
Good luck with things

Now if you really want to dive down the rabbit hole of lost knowledge, then I ask what is the correlation of Mach’s principle and binaural energy and how does it effect germination and vigor of plants? But once you dive down that rabbit hole you start to understand how ignorant humans have become....