How Do We Eradicate Religion From Modern Society?

Heis, are you really trying to tell me that you don't see the brainwashing the media gives us?

Also, that wasn't a defense.. It was me agreeing with him while saying that religion isn't the only thing that takes over people.

And just like there's "consequences" for not following certain religions, there's consequences for not conforming to what the media tells us to do.. It's called being an outcast.

So what's the point of your last post tick tock? Is it just a petty insult?

Hepheastus420 said:

Heis, are you really trying to tell me that you don't see the brainwashing the media gives us?

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I am saying that it does not equate to nor excuse the manipulation inherit to religion.

Also, that wasn't a defense.. It was me agreeing with him while saying that religion isn't the only thing that takes over people.

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Fair enough

And just like there's "consequences" for not following certain religions, there's consequences for not conforming to what the media tells us to do.. It's called being an outcast.

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Being an outcast is very subjective. This would be a desired consequence for some. Is there anyone who would desire unending torture and burning? Political and media propaganda is a serious issue, but it is a red herring to bring it up in relation to religion. Likening religion to 'human training' is a cheeky way of making a legitimate point. You seemed to be shrugging your shoulders and saying "oh well everyone does it". Apparently I misunderstood you, and you were just saying everyone does it without shrugging your shoulders.

Yeah, this was honestly a misunderstanding. I'm not trying to justify the crap religion does... I guess I was just being a dick lol.

Oh, and yeah there are cults that want to be tortured and burned for eternity... Pretty crazy huh?

[video=youtube;kQFKtI6gn9Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y[/video]

Excuse me, I'd like to have an argument... Haha.. Gotta love Monty.

All religion is subjugation whether you think it otherwise. God or this "idea" of a god, is merely us damn dirty apes trying to make sense of a chaotic world by inventing an all knowing, all seeing, kind, yet vengeful being.

I grew up with atheist, at the age of 29 and a degree in computer science I am now catholic. Someday god will show himself in his own way to you. May it be Christian Buddhist Muslim or what have you. the funny thing is the more I study Plato Aristotle astronomy and physics. The more I believe in god.

crazy things I thought about in philosophy
If there is a god and he is all powerful can he create a rock so heavy that he cant lift it?
If yes than he is not omnipotent
If no than he is not omnipotent

If we can create a computer that simulates life who says we are not a simulation ourselves

If your sense of smell sight hearing touch and taste can be deceived how can you prove your own existence

But in the end that is just human thinking we can never think god away. much in the same way you can not erase the sun by closing your curtains.

THZZELJR said:

I grew up with atheist, at the age of 29 and a degree in computer science I am now catholic. Someday god will show himself in his own way to you. May it be Christian Buddhist Muslim or what have you. the funny thing is the more I study Plato Aristotle astronomy and physics. The more I believe in god.

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Welcome to RIU.

What about Plato, Aristotle or astronomy or physics makes you believe in God?

THZZELJR said:

crazy things I thought about in philosophy
If there is a god and he is all powerful can he create a rock so heavy that he cant lift it?
If yes than he is not omnipotent
If no than he is not omnipotent

If we can create a computer that simulates life who says we are not a simulation ourselves

If your sense of smell sight hearing touch and taste can be deceived how can you prove your own existence

But in the end that is just human thinking we can never think god away. much in the same way you can not erase the sun by closing your curtains.

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Life could very well be a simulation, how does that support the idea a god exists?

You can't prove anything with absolute certainty.

There is still nothing to support the idea that a god exists as anything other than a figment of a few billion peoples imagination.

Science can explain the big bang but never explain what came before. the more we learn it seems the less we actually KNOW. I completely agree I can not give you empirical evidence that god exists. physics cant explain why I can not walk through walls mathematically I should be able to, same is said for why time only goes forward. Mathematically it should be able to randomly reverse.
I believe everything in the universe is connected which can be proven by quantum entanglement

[video=youtube;9lOWZ0Wv218]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lOWZ0Wv218&feature=related[/video]
[video=youtube;Bcz4vGvoxQA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcz4vGvoxQA[/video]

Makes me wonder how this all could be an accident and how come we seem to be alone
how come earth like planets are so rare
how come our galaxy is so perfect to breed carbon based life
we have a moon to protect us we have Jupiter to protect us and we have a asteroid belt to protect us
we are the perfect distance form the sun
water is the only substance to expand when it is froze
all these things are necessary to our existence and yet it seems this is the only place to find it

but in the end I can only testify to my own experiences with god touching me and if your not a believer you would say I see what i want to see at best or certifiable at worst. But honestly why would you not want to believe in something pure and loving that is totally unlike humanity

THZZELJR said:

Science can explain the big bang but never explain what came before. the more we learn it seems the less we actually KNOW. I completely agree I can not give you empirical evidence that god exists. physics cant explain why I can not walk through walls mathematically I should be able to, same is said for why time only goes forward. Mathematically it should be able to randomly reverse.
I believe everything in the universe is connected which can be proven by quantum entanglement

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Listen to what you're saying, essentially this argument breaks down to "I don't know how _________ happened, so God must have done it". That is not an explanation for anything.

This is called the 'God of the gaps argument';

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

What we need is positive evidence for God's existence, not gaps where science hasn't filled in the holes yet and claim that because there's a hole there, it MUST be God. What happens when we do find the answer to the question that filled the hole (flat Earth, demons as the cause for illness, geocentric universe, etc.)? God becomes essentially moot.

THZZELJR said:

Makes me wonder how this all could be an accident and how come we seem to be alone
how come earth like planets are so rare
how come our galaxy is so perfect to breed carbon based life
we have a moon to protect us we have Jupiter to protect us and we have a asteroid belt to protect us
we are the perfect distance form the sun
water is the only substance to expand when it is froze
all these things are necessary to our existence and yet it seems this is the only place to find it

but in the end I can only testify to my own experiences with god touching me and if your not a believer you would say I see what i want to see at best or certifiable at worst. But honestly why would you not want to believe in something pure and loving that is totally unlike humanity

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Because wanting to believe in something doesn't give me any kind of false comfort to cope with existence. If you thought a little bit about that you would realize it's only an illusion, in the same way drugs help drug addicts cope with their existence. It's a false comfort. Is it wrong? Not necessarily, but it can, and often does, become dangerous. At that point no amount of comfort, even if it was real, would make any difference to me. My comfort isn't worth someone elses pain.

yup its a timeless argument. but believe and you'll see. I used to hate religion myself then I gave it a chance and crazy "coincidences" started happening. At first my intentions were to remain open minded and mainly use religion to better my outlook on life. But maybe your right I do want to believe, therefore I do.
All I know is I know nothing at all for sure. but in all honesty I would say spirituality does help you cope with life. I'm sure your aware of neurological studies of people praying and meditating elevate dopamine levels. I'm not saying that's proof of anything other than it can be helpful with stress.
I used to feel the same about religion causing others problems. I grew up in a atheist home, went to prison and saw the evil of men do. Especially the so called religious men, seemed to so violent. I cursed everyone's god for a long time. but then someone came along that challenged my very nature. Forced me to rethink my views I realized I was living such a cold shallow life by not embracing spirituality. Yes it was a female lol. but trust me I refused to change for anyone but myself or my child. I may have done some really horrible things (all the sins except 1) but I always looked people in the eyes while doing it. I started to study all popular religions and came to the conclusion its not religion that is evil or dangerous its the people that make it so. I chose to embrace the catholic beliefs even though I do know all the evil that is present in some of its congregation and clergy. At its core teachings it is not violent or sexual its people that make it so. Just like another religion. Well some eastern religions are very sexual though. But even if your not spiritual in any form please realize the majority of Christians and Muslims and Buddhists are peaceful and kind. organized religion has helped me become a calmer more reasonable forgiving man. I can practice in my home alone but being around others that have the same intentions is what helps keep me focused. Much as we are organized here to focus on our growing. there are some that use MJ as something evil and there are those of us in the majority on this site that are not.

Heisenberg said:

This is your defense? Point and say 'you too". When I turn on TV or radio I don't here too much of people telling me what morals to have or how to think. I hear people giving opinions and what not, but I do not hear anyone claiming divine warrant for their opinions which includes the threat of eternal punishment unless I tune into a religious station, which incidentally seem to also be the only channels that panhandle their audiences for money...

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Man, Heis, you should listen to WFMT out of Chicago. Greatest classical station in the world. But, GODDAMN! They're holding a pledge drive every other WEEK. I'm going to stop listening to classical music if this keeps up

THZZELJR said:

yup its a timeless argument. but believe and you'll see.

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This is a worthless argument. I don't mean that to be offensive. It just doesn't offer me anything. "Believe and you'll see"? I "believed" for at least 10 years as much as I possibly could given my own circumstances, yet here I sit, non believer as they come. What did I do wrong?

THZZELJR said:

I used to hate religion myself then I gave it a chance and crazy "coincidences" started happening.

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I don't "hate" religion in the same sense I don't "hate" Bart Simpson. Could you go into more detail about the "coincidences"? I'm more than interested. What was it that led to you changing your mind, and more specifically, what led you to Catholicism?

THZZELJR said:

At first my intentions were to remain open minded and mainly use religion to better my outlook on life.

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Which is perfectly acceptable if not admirable.

THZZELJR said:

But maybe your right I do want to believe, therefore I do.

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Consider this; Can you want to believe anything else? Can you want to believe the sky is red? The Earth is flat? You're mother is a man?

This is a point I try to stress often, and it comes up surprisingly often in conversations; Beliefs aren't chosen. You believe things BECAUSE YOU CAN'T choose to believe anything different.

THZZELJR said:

All I know is I know nothing at all for sure.

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Respectable.

THZZELJR said:

but in all honesty I would say spirituality does help you cope with life.

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I agree, that is, if we're both using our own definitions of 'spirituality'.

THZZELJR said:

I used to feel the same about religion causing others problems. I grew up in a atheist home, went to prison and saw the evil of men do. Especially the so called religious men, seemed to so violent. I cursed everyone's god for a long time. but then someone came along that challenged my very nature. Forced me to rethink my views I realized I was living such a cold shallow life by not embracing spirituality. Yes it was a female lol. but trust me I refused to change for anyone but myself or my child. I may have done some really horrible things (all the sins except 1) but I always looked people in the eyes while doing it. I started to study all popular religions and came to the conclusion its not religion that is evil or dangerous its the people that make it so. I chose to embrace the catholic beliefs even though I do know all the evil that is present in some of its congregation and clergy. At its core teachings it is not violent or sexual its people that make it so. Just like another religion. Well some eastern religions are very sexual though. But even if your not spiritual in any form please realize the majority of Christians and Muslims and Buddhists are peaceful and kind. organized religion has helped me become a calmer more reasonable forgiving man. I can practice in my home alone but being around others that have the same intentions is what helps keep me focused. Much as we are organized here to focus on our growing. there are some that use MJ as something evil and there are those of us in the majority on this site that are not.

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I understand this perspective. Most use religion for good purposes that lead them to fulfillment in their own lives. This is a good thing. But when everything is considered, I mean all of human history, we have to look at it with an honest eye and admit our mistakes and faults where they are, in order to get better as a species. That's something we owe to the future generations. I feel this way and I don't have any kids. If you could pinpoint some kind of objective purpose for us, how could that not possibly be it? Why not take the good and leave behind the archaic, irrelevant bad? Why not study and research human morality so we can teach it?

Naive delusions are obstacles to this pursuit. Admitting it is a step in a positive direction.

PS. This is just scratching the surface.

Bull on fire by hunter van larkins is a good song.

Humans just happened with interactions of DNA molecules from amino acids. We went from Dinosaurs to Humans, with who knows what else in between, all most likely DNA dependant. The Dinosaurs were only preserved in fossil form due to a quick burial from an asteroid.
We are like a virus to the Earth, spilling oil into the oceans, spilling CO2 into the air, depleting resources, bombing each other, etc (The list certainly goes on) Why doesn't god step in and stop this or even fix this human mentality from the get go? He can create the damn universe but can't fix a bunch of human viruses. Why didn't he leave any evidence behind? Then there would be reason to worship his sorry ass for making us so problematic.
God created earth and water, but makes it 97% SALT!
God creates bible, makes revisions every year to match the trend.
God creates comets and asteroids, dance human dance!
God creates religion, he's bored? Likes drama?
God creates MJ plants, he's inside the seed playing houdini.
God creates women, but makes them bleed 25% of their useful life. Accompanied by thier pms bitching. There must...IS a better way to shed that egg.
God creates men, requires they get circumcized.
God creates humans, he really fucked up here. Maybe you're right. Maybe he doesn't want to show his face to save himself the embarassment.
God is for people who are incapable of making decisions themselves and they need to be told what's right from wrong. How is that supposed to make you smarter? That promotes rapists, pedophiles, extremists, dumbasses. There's evidence on the internet that the IQ of majority of religious people are much lower than the majority of atheists. If kids weren't forced to accept god, they wouldn't have a reason to think he exists. They'll think, wow what a messed up world. Greed, lies, and destruction.
I used to believe in Santa when I was younger, but that trend didn't have the needed funding (religion is a big player in the financial area) or it was just bad timing, or it was just that he DOESN'T exist, like god.
No need to waste time fighting over if he exists or not, he doesn't. Does it get any plain and simpler than that? Is he under the couch? Floating in the polluted ozoneless sky? Up my ass? Probably the last option. To each their own. I'd rather spend my brain power on making myself educated and smarter than sit around reading and preeching a book that's a waste of paper and ink. I'm not hating, wait I am, but people hate AIDS/HIV too right?

The bible was definetely not a waste of paper and ink.. Even if god isn't real, the bible still created many laws that we base our laws off of today.. Without these laws (I'm not saying the bible is the onlt place we get our laws from), we would be killing and stealing each other alot more.

Hepheastus420 said:

The bible was definetely not a waste of paper and ink.. Even if god isn't real, the bible still created many laws that we base our laws off of today.. Without these laws (I'm not saying the bible is the onlt place we get our laws from), we would be killing and stealing each other alot more.

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Out of the 613 laws in the bible, only about 3 of them are also laws in secular society and even those three are not unique to and actually predate the bible.

[video=youtube;OL5yplRHE9g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL5yplRHE9g[/video]