Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one.

Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
XRagnorX said:
Well, humans are supposed to be above the animals. I have always found homosexual behavior in animals odd. I guess it is simply a drive for pleasure that initiates that behavior. Researchers and other idiots claim animals do not seek out sexual pleasure that they simply procreate out of instinct..... that's a load of shit...
Personally, I am into some erotic behavior that turns allot of people off. However I am just not into men's hairy asses(or shaved) it just seems icky to me (yes, icky). If a person wants to be a cock sucker, well whatever. But please keep it in the closet, I don't go throwing my sexuality in peoples faces and I appreciate the same in return...... That's my take on it.
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That's another thing, I'm not sure if you meant this but I was gonna say it anyways.

As humans we are supposed to be extremely intelligent. So shouldn't our natural instincts tell us alright you're not gonna have a baby with a male so have it with a girl (well from a guys point of view). IDK I mean they say it's not a choice but how do you get turned on by the same sex? Shouldn't we automatically programmed to be attracted to the opposite sex?



Unless the opposite sexes are switching sides, oh no. Males are gonna turn into females and females are gonna turn into males. Jk.
 
Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
You contradicted yourself. Either it's an intelligent choice or instinctive behavior. Science has shown that it occurs in nature, therefore natural. If heterosexuality were "automatically programmed" then we wouldn't have homosexual coupling exhibited in so many diverse species. Some of our closest relatives, chimpanzees and bonobos, exhibit lesbian and gay behavior as part of the social norm.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Hepheastus420 said:
That's another thing, I'm not sure if you meant this but I was gonna say it anyways.

As humans we are supposed to be extremely intelligent. So shouldn't our natural instincts tell us alright you're not gonna have a baby with a male so have it with a girl (well from a guys point of view). IDK I mean they say it's not a choice but how do you get turned on by the same sex? Shouldn't we automatically programmed to be attracted to the opposite sex?



Unless the opposite sexes are switching sides, oh no. Males are gonna turn into females and females are gonna turn into males. Jk.
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I think you bring up some interesting points, but perhaps miss a few points as well.

I am not really sure why anyone would think we are above animals. We are different in ways that can be advantageous or unfavorable. Intelligence helps us eat, but also sometimes leads to OCD, for example. (I know this was not Hep's point)

Should intelligence tell us that same sex intercourse does not produce a baby? Of course, and it does. It occurs to humans to the same extent as it occurs to us when we engage in oral sex or masturbation. If you find the reasons why you jerk off or like oral, I expect you will find the same reasons why gay couples have sexual relations. IOW, making babies is not the point. This is not to imply same sex couples only do things because it feels good. It is an expression of intimacy.

Is it a choice? Well you only have to look to your own sexual development to answer this. Was it a choice for you or was it instinct? Do you suppose your sexual development is unique? I think it best to think of homosexuals as also being automatically programmed, just in a different way. Afterall, girls are automatically programmed to like penis, and that is different from your automatic programming, so it's not such a strange concept. Of course it is supported that environment also contributes factors in some cases. Recent findings suggest hormonal conditions of the womb during pregnancy seem to have a lot to do with it, in which case genetics and childhood may have very little influence.

Shouldn't we be automatically programmed to be attracted to the opposite sex? This is the question that gets to the heart of it. Why would some humans or animals be programmed for same sex attraction? Does it serve a purpose, or is it simply a mistake of nature? That is a question I can not answer. I could make an argument for both conclusions, but they amount to speculation, and I suspect the true answer is not so black and white.
 
filtereye

filtereye

Active Member
Hepheastus420 said:
That's another thing, I'm not sure if you meant this but I was gonna say it anyways.

As humans we are supposed to be extremely intelligent. So shouldn't our natural instincts tell us alright you're not gonna have a baby with a male so have it with a girl (well from a guys point of view). IDK I mean they say it's not a choice but how do you get turned on by the same sex? Shouldn't we automatically programmed to be attracted to the opposite sex?



Unless the opposite sexes are switching sides, oh no. Males are gonna turn into females and females are gonna turn into males. Jk.
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I see it as playing a positive role for over-population and adoption. Like the some females/males who are straight but cant reproduce for whatever health reason, what do we make of them?

XRagnorX said:
Personally, I am into some erotic behavior that turns allot of people off. However I am just not into men's hairy asses(or shaved) it just seems icky to me (yes, icky). If a person wants to be a cock sucker, well whatever. But please keep it in the closet, I don't go throwing my sexuality in peoples faces and I appreciate the same in return...... That's my take on it.
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and about flaunting sexuality is a trait a lot of people dont like thats not just in gays. I know of older women who would feel the same way about a girl wearing close to nothing and being overly slutty and sexual even though shes straight. She would want her to keep all THAT in the closet too lol.
 
Nusky

Nusky

New Member
Hepheastus420 said:
That's another thing, I'm not sure if you meant this but I was gonna say it anyways.

As humans we are supposed to be extremely intelligent. So shouldn't our natural instincts tell us alright you're not gonna have a baby with a male so have it with a girl (well from a guys point of view). IDK I mean they say it's not a choice but how do you get turned on by the same sex? Shouldn't we automatically programmed to be attracted to the opposite sex?



Unless the opposite sexes are switching sides, oh no. Males are gonna turn into females and females are gonna turn into males. Jk.
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when humans are in the womb I believe they start out as females (biology was a long time ago, this might be backwards) and some of them "evolve" into male. So maybe the brain just doesn't switch over in some parts and thats why we get people wanting to be the other sex, people being gay etc
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
I think you bring up some interesting points, but perhaps miss a few points as well.

I am not really sure why anyone would think we are above animals. We are different in ways that can be advantageous or unfavorable. Intelligence helps us eat, but also sometimes leads to OCD, for example. (I know this was not Hep's point)

Should intelligence tell us that same sex intercourse does not produce a baby? Of course, and it does. It occurs to humans to the same extent as it occurs to us when we engage in oral sex or masturbation. If you find the reasons why you jerk off or like oral, I expect you will find the same reasons why gay couples have sexual relations. IOW, making babies is not the point. This is not to imply same sex couples only do things because it feels good. It is an expression of intimacy.

Is it a choice? Well you only have to look to your own sexual development to answer this. Was it a choice for you or was it instinct? Do you suppose your sexual development is unique? I think it best to think of homosexuals as also being automatically programmed, just in a different way. Afterall, girls are automatically programmed to like penis, and that is different from your automatic programming, so it's not such a strange concept. Of course it is supported that environment also contributes factors in some cases. Recent findings suggest hormonal conditions of the womb during pregnancy seem to have a lot to do with it, in which case genetics and childhood may have very little influence.

Shouldn't we be automatically programmed to be attracted to the opposite sex? This is the question that gets to the heart of it. Why would some humans or animals be programmed for same sex attraction? Does it serve a purpose, or is it simply a mistake of nature? That is a question I can not answer. I could make an argument for both conclusions, but they amount to speculation, and I suspect the true answer is not so black and white.
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I don't think we are above other animals, just more intellectual. Like I completely understand how the whole loving if the opposite sex thing works and is natural. My question was why? But you are right, that question cannot be answered in black and white.

Good point on the intimacy, (my own example im not saying heis said this or anything like this >>>) like humans won't just stop hugging each other because it won't make a baby or do anything beneficial. But hugging is a form of intimacy in one way or another so it is completely normal and natural. Hmm very good point heis.

And I completely forgot about masturbation and oral sex, which answers my question to how gays and lesbians can be attracted to the same sex. But there still is the whole males are, at least slightly, attracted to females and females are attracted to males. There's evidence that proves this. Such as the different scents our bodies give off that attract the opposite sex. But then again there's the intimacy thing, but sure you love your brother but you don't get a hard on which is what confuses me. Just because you feel intimate with someone doesn't mean you have sex with them. I wrote alot more and realized I kept contradicting myself so I deleted it, so yeah the answer is definitely not black and white, ha.

Hmm that makes alot of sense with their new findings of the influence the hormonal conditions have on the child. It could explain why I find it weird that same sexes can be sexually attracted to each other.

I hope you guys are seeing my unclear point and I hope you don't think I'm saying homosexuality is wrong. I'm just trying to figure out how it happens.

Oh yeah here's a rep for your answer that you put thought into (like pretty much all your answers). I still have not seen one of your posts with 15 words or less, lol.
 
dannyboy602

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
Why would some humans or animals be programmed for same sex attraction? Does it serve a purpose, or is it simply a mistake of nature? That is a question I can not answer. I could make an argument for both conclusions, but they amount to speculation, and I suspect the true answer is not so black and white.
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I don't think nature made many mistakes in human evolution. Except the ability to breed like rabbits. She makes variations on a theme if you will. Sex exists in the brain. Copulation is a series of actions sequenced to bring pleasure centers of the brain on a joy ride. And orgasm is the heightened result. It exists in male and female but for reasons no science can explain to my satisfaction, presents as hetero and homo. My suspicion is that natures job is simply to create variety within the species in order to survive. This is the nature of most living organisms. That the behavior has not died out in any animal species, but continues to flourish, tells me the behavior is genetic. I also think, but have no proof, that all human beings have it within themselves to be bisexual. Under circumstances favorable to such development. One has no further to look for evidence of this than to look at the prison system. A closed society where all the rules change, a favorable environment.
 
Total Head

Total Head

Well-Known Member
"sex for reproduction" is an argument that always bothered me. i can say for certain that NOT ONCE have i ever had sex and planned on having offspring. it's not why i do it at all. as a matter of fact i make sure there are safeguards AGAINST pregnancy. imagine that. what about people who can't have children? are they less human because they can't "fufill their purpose"? i've always believed that the ability to "be homosexual" is a built in safety for a species to both control population and fufill a sense of purpose. walk in any prison and tell them how "unnatural" it is. they just need to fuck and a lot of them need the intimacy, just like free men. there are no women, yet somehow they figure it out.
 
vapor85

vapor85

Well-Known Member
Who cares if it's natural or not? It's natural for animals to kill (not always for food) so I can go over to my annoying neighbors house and deal with the mother fuckers once and for all because animals kill in nature? LOL It's just the natural thing to do! Would you live in your own feces? Roll the fuck around in shit like a pig? Thats really natural.

That isn't logical thinking... it's stupid.
 
Filthy Phil

Filthy Phil

Well-Known Member
filtereye said:
was looking at my facebook and i see this - "Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one." and then at the bottom "Which one seems unnatural now?"

makes sense to me :eyesmoke:

RIP Jamie Rodemeyer
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Thats pretty clever, I like that
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
vapor85 said:
Who cares if it's natural or not? It's natural for animals to kill (not always for food) so I can go over to my annoying neighbors house and deal with the mother fuckers once and for all because animals kill in nature? LOL It's just the natural thing to do! Would you live in your own feces? Roll the fuck around in shit like a pig? Thats really natural.

That isn't logical thinking... it's stupid.
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very very good point sir. Thats what i was saying, it's natural but very strange behaviour that i feel i will never understand. but ehh homo's can do whatever they want, and should be able to do so without hatred aimed at them. like unless our population is about to die off then im gonna be pissed at all the lesbians and gays. using that logic I would also have to be pissed at condoms and birth control.
 
Corso312

Corso312

Well-Known Member
what 450 species?..i have never seen this behavior from any such animal... i am no homophobe but i find man on man disgusting and gross.... i think much of this homophobia talk is reverse psychology by gays to make heteros accept this strange behavior in society and if you don't agree than you are a closet fag or insecure..i call bullshit..i don't condone gay bashing or brainwashing kids to think all fags will burn in hell... but 2 men is nasty and two women isn't , so what
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
vapor85 said:
Who cares if it's natural or not? It's natural for animals to kill (not always for food) so I can go over to my annoying neighbors house and deal with the mother fuckers once and for all because animals kill in nature? LOL It's just the natural thing to do! Would you live in your own feces? Roll the fuck around in shit like a pig? Thats really natural.

That isn't logical thinking... it's stupid.
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I don't think anybody is saying we should engage in any behavior simply because animals do. Incest and rape are also seen widely in the animal world, yet no one is advocating that. The fact that it arrives from nature is an answer to the religious accusation that homosexuality is an abomination, and also lends credence to the idea that it is instinctive, rather than a choice. Homosexuals are not engaging in immoral or antisocial behavior and justifying it by pointing to animals.

Corso312 said:
what 450 species?..i have never seen this behavior from any such animal... i am no homophobe but i find man on man disgusting and gross.... i think much of this homophobia talk is reverse psychology by gays to make heteros accept this strange behavior in society and if you don't agree than you are a closet fag or insecure..i call bullshit..i don't condone gay bashing or brainwashing kids to think all fags will burn in hell... but 2 men is nasty and two women isn't , so what
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm
 
Filthy Phil

Filthy Phil

Well-Known Member
who cares if its nasty, it isnt hurting anyone. But lots of animals are gay, most of them mammals. It also tends to happen more often as population densities increase. I'm not saying why, anything I said would be speculation. But dolphins, rabbits, cats, monkeys, buffalo, lions... when I was little my neighbors had a gay rabbit. They had a bunch of rabbits, but one of them was gay and always tried to mount other males. I was puzzled by this as my parents told me homosexuality was a sin and animals cant sin as a lack of free will... yet there they were, gay rabbits. I still laugh about that.... gives the term "fuck like rabbits" a whole new twist I guess

but I always hear people say, "men on men is gross!" (and I agree) but how is that even relevant to any argument? What we find gross pertains to what we decide to do to ourselves, not what others decide to do....its kind of irrelivant. I think Hummers, the big SUV things, are gross, and certainly harm us all more than gay men... but that wouldnt be a relevant point as to why we should get rid of HUmmers...
 
Corso312

Corso312

Well-Known Member
that just has list of animals...mostly insects...they call affection homo behaviorand parenting and pairing...none would be considered gay in human behavior..only sex would be...three guys that grew up together on the same block that hang around together for life are not homo..we call them friends
 
Corso312

Corso312

Well-Known Member
Filthy Phil said:
who cares if its nasty, it isnt hurting anyone. But lots of animals are gay, most of them mammals. It also tends to happen more often as population densities increase. I'm not saying why, anything I said would be speculation. But dolphins, rabbits, cats, monkeys, buffalo, lions... when I was little my neighbors had a gay rabbit. They had a bunch of rabbits, but one of them was gay and always tried to mount other males. I was puzzled by this as my parents told me homosexuality was a sin and animals cant sin as a lack of free will... yet there they were, gay rabbits. I still laugh about that.... gives the term "fuck like rabbits" a whole new twist I guess

but I always hear people say, "men on men is gross!" (and I agree) but how is that even relevant to any argument? What we find gross pertains to what we decide to do to ourselves, not what others decide to do....its kind of irrelivant. I think Hummers, the big SUV things, are gross, and certainly harm us all more than gay men... but that wouldnt be a relevant point as to why we should get rid of HUmmers...
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when you see two dogs that are female or male mounting the other that is same sex..it is not gay or sexual..it is about dominance..i think humans misinterpret animal behavior and come up with some bullshit list that animals are gay
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Corso312 said:
that just has list of animals...mostly insects...they call affection homo behaviorand parenting and pairing...none would be considered gay in human behavior..only sex would be...three guys that grew up together on the same block that hang around together for life are not homo..we call them friends
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this article conforms to the usage by modern research applying the term homosexuality to all sexual behavior (copulation, genital stimulation, mating games and sexual display behavior) between animals of the same sex.
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Would those three guy friends copulate, stimulate each others genitals, flirt and display sexual behavior among themselves?

Same-sex behaviors—courtship, mounting or parenting
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Would those friends court one another to win romantic favor? Would they mount each other? Think they would willfully raise a baby with each other?

My point is science is careful to make the distinction between behavior like dominance and homosexuality. While I do doubt the validity of a Wikipedia list, it's easy enough to check the sources and see genuine examples of homosexuality do exist.

The review also reports that same-sex behaviors are not the same across species, and that researchers may be calling qualitatively different phenomena by the same name.

For example, male fruit flies may court other males because they are lacking a gene that enables them to discriminate between the sexes," Bailey said. "But that is very different from male bottlenose dolphins, who engage in same-sex interactions to facilitate group bonding, or female Laysan Albatross that can remain pair-bonded for life and cooperatively rear young.
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