Hey New Growers, Let's try this again?

hogbud said:

low to mid 70's is where I like it, I also use colder water when I water

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Ya thats what I did but read some studies done on agro crops where it showed nutrient uptake as well as water increased as temp was raised to around eighty. I only ran with soil for a short period indoors and changed to hydro, its cleaner imo lol. I keep the res on the cool side though. Would warmer temps not increase microbial growth in soil? And would that not be beneficial for the beanies lol?

waterdawg said:

Ya thats what I did but read some studies done on agro crops where it showed nutrient uptake as well as water increased as temp was raised to around eighty. I only ran with soil for a short period indoors and changed to hydro, its cleaner imo lol. I keep the res on the cool side though. Would warmer temps not increase microbial growth in soil? And would that not be beneficial for the beanies lol?

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I would not go by just one agro study, I'd have to see 2 or 3 say the same thing before I would try it, I'm glad it worked for you, different plants like different soil temps if you "ask an expert" they will give you a range like 70 to 85 and that will vary with each and every plant.

As for beanies,,,, I'm soil less and I'm sure there are very few mico beanies in my pots as I use chems, my keepin the temps in the low 70's is based on years of observation, my using cold water (60 degrees) to water em is based on the scientific fact that the colder the water the more O2 it has in it, but that is another story LOL

I'm glad I checked back here. I was going to put cotton balls in the noses of all who might smell my grow. Blocking my own nose seems way simpler.

I'm interesting in what I might be missing with imaginary numbers TryN. How Can they enhance my operation.

My schooling only really started when I found this thread.

hogbud said:

I would not go by just one agro study, I'd have to see 2 or 3 say the same thing before I would try it, I'm glad it worked for you, different plants like different soil temps if you "ask an expert" they will give you a range like 70 to 85 and that will vary with each and every plant.

As for beanies,,,, I'm soil less and I'm sure there are very few mico beanies in my pots as I use chems, my keepin the temps in the low 70's is based on years of observation, my using cold water (60 degrees) to water em is based on the scientific fact that the colder the water the more O2 it has in it, but that is another story LOL

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Good science!

its not an argument just clarifying
both of the 3kw devices will produce the same amount of heat due to electrical resistance
this heat is seen as a "loss" or electrical inefficiency
if we were talking about a super conductor there would be no heat because there is no resistance
are you saying if there is no heat there is no power ?

heat is generated by current flow because of friction

we agree about heat generated by electrical resistance
this is the same as the argument what weighs the most 1kg of bricks or 1kg of feathers
they are both the same because the weight is the same
both devices must produce the same amount of heat because the resistance is the same
for the circuit to allow 1000w which is ohms law

heat can be generated by the burning/reaction of gas within the tube of a HID
it is this heat that makes a 1000w mh hotter than a 1000w sodium

skunkd0c said:

its not an argument just clarifying
both of the 3kw devices will produce the same amount of heat due to electrical resistance
this heat is seen as a "loss" or electrical inefficiency
if we were talking about a super conductor there would be no heat because there is no resistance
are you saying if there is no heat there is no power ?

heat is generated by current flow because of friction

we agree about heat generated by electrical resistance
this is the same as the argument what weighs the most 1kg of bricks or 1kg of feathers
they are both the same because the weight is the same
both devices must produce the same amount of heat because the resistance is the same
for the circuit to allow 1000w which is ohms law

heat can be generated by the burning/reaction of gas within the tube of a HID
it is this heat that makes a 1000w mh hotter than a 1000w sodium

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The standard for the measurement of heat transferred is the Watt

therefore my statement that "1000 watts of heat is 1000 watts of heat" is a true statement !!!

you are correct that heat generated is via energy loss or inefficiency, ie: an incandescent bulb is about 2.1% efficient and is therefore 98% heat where a Flouro bulb is 28% efficient. It may well be true that a 1000 watt MH bulb is hotter than a 1000 watt HPS bulb, but you are talking bulbs and not the entire electric circuit, the ballast get hot as well and I'll say it one more time 1000 watts of heat is a 1000 watts of heat since Watts are the measurement for heat transferred by electrical devices

Ohms law does not cover this read watts law and check out the power wheel

hogbud said:

the answer is yes, the 3K heater will make as much heat as the 3K air conditioner, The difference is the Air conditioner will expel it outside via the evaporator coil.

I really don't want to argue this, but you left me no choice but the standard measurement of HEAT transferred is the WATT !!! here is a dictionary definition for you

"As a form of energy heat has the unit joule (J) in the International System of Units (SI). However, in many applied fields in engineering the British thermal unit (BTU) and the calorie are often used. The standard unit for the rate of heat transferred is the watt (W), defined as joules per second."

you wanna cite Ohms law when you should be using Watts law !!!

Those that know me, know I don't just say shit, if I don't know something I say so !!!

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Well lol there is a bit more involved in it than that! Heat of compression, volumetric efficiencies, etc. also lighting is a bit different as well. This is my take on the light versus heat thing. Regular incandescent bulbs are very inefficient at I believe 2% so 98% is lost to heat, fluorescent lights are 8% (appr) and 92% is lost to heat. Correct me if wrong btw as I have only read this and never tested anything lol. As the efficiency of the light goes up the heat goes down and more power is going to the actual light and not heat. So again my take - 100 watt regular light bulb produces 333 btu (close anyways lol) and a 100watt fluorescent will produce 312 btu's. So heat output really is different depending on light. Again correct me if wrong cause just smoked a bowl lol. Also you cannot compare heaters and ac unit heat output or extraction base on wattage, although electric heaters are basically 100% efficient due to low light output lol. Heat pumps just as an example produce say 30,000 btu's but do not use 8000 watts, typically they would be around 3900. Ok getting a headache and ruining a good stone lol.

Ok so i was bit slow typing lol. I read hogs post later lol.

And I really am certified to teach electronics in the state of Mo. which I actually did for 4 years back in the 80's now I leisurely restore antique electronics in Denver

and what you are using to make your point is true you are simply missing the whole picture, which includes the entire circuit not just the bulb

perhaps we are lost in translation lol
i know from what you have said you know what you are talking about
but you still seem to be missing the practical point
the heat from the transformer will not effect the plants
the heat from the bulb is the main concern of the grower

watts is part of ohms law
p = I x V this is ohms law

a watt is from wiki lol
In terms of electromagnetism, one watt is the rate at which work is done when one ampere (A) of current flows through an electrical potential difference of one volt (V).

this process will only produce heat because of resistance
a super conductor would not produce heat because no resistance no friction
electromagnetism is not dependent on heat
heat is a by product of current flow and is dependent on resistance

i have never heard of an independent watts law the power wheel you show is the extended version of the ohms law triangle

your original statement is what i do not understand you are stating the obvious
that 1kg of bricks weighs the same as 1kg of feathers
this does not mean that bricks and feathers are the same in all aspects

since heat can be generated by current flow but it is not dependent on it

hence a 1000w MH is hotter than a 1000w sodium because lots of heat is generated by the MH arc tube this extra heat is independent of current flow this heat is produced by the burning arc tube gas in MH which burns at a hotter temp than the gas in the sodium tube

in practical situations i would say a 250w metal halide
can produce as much heat directly at the canopy as a 400w sodium

peace

waterdawg said:

Ok so i was bit slow typing lol. I read hogs post later lol.

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Did you get rid of your headache then? lol

Watts law named after James Watt combined with Ohms law = the power wheel, it is not an extended Ohms law it is 2 combined laws that work together.

James Watt actually worked on steam engines.

As stated the stuff you are saying is all true, you are simply not looking at the whole picture, but rather picking out a part of it to try and prove your point which is just wrong. You want to use the heat from the bulb without considering the heat from the ballast. The two different bulb circuits use 1000 watts that includes the bulbs, ballast and wiring, the entire circuit therefore produces 1000 watts of heat

hogbud said:

I would not go by just one agro study, I'd have to see 2 or 3 say the same thing before I would try it, I'm glad it worked for you, different plants like different soil temps if you "ask an expert" they will give you a range like 70 to 85 and that will vary with each and every plant.

As for beanies,,,, I'm soil less and I'm sure there are very few mico beanies in my pots as I use chems, my keepin the temps in the low 70's is based on years of observation, my using cold water (60 degrees) to water em is based on the scientific fact that the colder the water the more O2 it has in it, but that is another story LOL

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Just to nitpick cold water can dissolve more oxygen but it doesn't ahve to be. I've degassed cool water plenty of times. No dO2 after that
I had to

MrEDuck said:

Just to nitpick cold water can dissolve more oxygen but it doesn't ahve to be. I've degassed cool water plenty of times. No dO2 after that
I had to

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and I love you too, but you already knew that LOL

We need the rofl icon over here. And the joint passing one.

MrEDuck said:

We need the rofl icon over here. And the joint passing one.

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not trying to prove a point in a confrontational way i hope you don't think that
its just nice to talk about this kind of stuff from time to time
i am only stating things the way i know them or were taught a long time ago
my memory is not perfect we can agree to disagree

you seem to be saying that 1000w of power = 1000w of heat
i do not agree with this
and i think if you look at it like this you will agree

you have already agreed that heat in terms of electrical current flow is a measurement of "inefficiency"

1000w of heat is 1000w of heat as you originally said
if you are stating that 1000w of hps is 1000w of heat
you are saying your hps light is 100% inefficient
if all of the 1000w of power (I x V) are given off as heat this is 100% inefficient
because Power is not Heat

so your original statement while true in one aspect is not actually helpful or practical imo

1000w of power (watts) used by a light some of this power is given off as heat some as light (efficiency)
the overall heat this system gives off is determined by the heat generated from electron collisions/friction = resistance (ohms law)
+ the heat generated by the system itself (arc tube) burning gas at over 2000c from a MH or something like that thermodynamics ?

dude i am going to shut up now i do not wish to pollute YOUR thread with
too many of my ramblings

peace

Hehehe boy the topic does change quickly lol. And also I was not advocating the soil temp thing at all just trying it as you have lol. And pretty sure when I was reading up on temp I read more than one study, and yup they were about hay not pot lol. I think there were a few. Again not saying it is a good or bad thing just something I tried. If i actually used methods that I read once I would be a very confused person lol. Actually I did say that there was no comparison so did it make plants bigger, good question lol. I would never say that my method of growing was the right way. Been doing this for thirty years and still a newb and always will be. My reason for growing is a bit different than yours. I grow for the sole purpose of getting high and the least time spent achieving that goal is success in my book lol. FYI I fill my res with well water at 52F and the girls seem to love it .

hogbud said:

I would not go by just one agro study, I'd have to see 2 or 3 say the same thing before I would try it, I'm glad it worked for you, different plants like different soil temps if you "ask an expert" they will give you a range like 70 to 85 and that will vary with each and every plant.

As for beanies,,,, I'm soil less and I'm sure there are very few mico beanies in my pots as I use chems, my keepin the temps in the low 70's is based on years of observation, my using cold water (60 degrees) to water em is based on the scientific fact that the colder the water the more O2 it has in it, but that is another story LOL

Click to expand...

hogbud said:

Watts law named after James Watt combined with Ohms law = the power wheel, it is not an extended Ohms law it is 2 combined laws that work together.

James Watt actually worked on steam engines.

As stated the stuff you are saying is all true, you are simply not looking at the whole picture, but rather picking out a part of it to try and prove your point which is just wrong. You want to use the heat from the bulb without considering the heat from the ballast. The two different bulb circuits use 1000 watts that includes the bulbs, ballast and wiring, the entire circuit therefore produces 1000 watts of heat

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Lol this stuff kills me. I could get into this one lol! But this is way off topic me thinks. Perhaps a new thread! Thermal dynamic physics perhaps lol. Pretty cool stuff and not so cut and dried as one watt in one btu out!!!

But its pretty close lol