Really appreciate the feedback hereSo it was a male that turned female, right? If so, its not a things that should matter. It doesent make female herm to males if you make pollen using that. It might however get slightly more females than males from the seeds and the males that you get might hermie in similar way than that.
Herming from male to female is the opposite thing happening than when females hermie to male. If a female hermies to male, it is because of lack of a certain hormone. When it is males that hermie to females, it is because there is too much of this hormone. The amount of this hormone dictates whether the plant grows male or female flowers. It can be genetically high or low. With your plant it is genetically high, so in fact it should help females not to hermie to males as easily. If a plant has genetically low amounts of the hormone, then it causes females to hermie to males. So never ever use a female that started making male buds without using something like colloidal silver to induce them intentionally.
Making females hermie to males with colloidal silver for example doesent make seeds that would hermie, because it doesent change the genetic base that dictates the amount of that hormone, but it only blocks that hormone temporarily on a specific flower you spray it on and thus produces male flowers in female plant. And without a proper male component, the resulting seeds will only have genetic instructions in how to make females, so result is feminised seeds that doesent hermie any easier than females from regular seeds.
Here you are again CannaOneStar spreading your non-sense unscientifically based info.So it was a male that turned female, right? If so, its not a things that should matter. It doesent make female herm to males if you make pollen using that. It might however get slightly more females than males from the seeds and the males that you get might hermie in similar way than that.
Herming from male to female is the opposite thing happening than when females hermie to male. If a female hermies to male, it is because of lack of a certain hormone. When it is males that hermie to females, it is because there is too much of this hormone. The amount of this hormone dictates whether the plant grows male or female flowers. It can be genetically high or low. With your plant it is genetically high, so in fact it should help females not to hermie to males as easily. If a plant has genetically low amounts of the hormone, then it causes females to hermie to males. So never ever use a female that started making male buds without using something like colloidal silver to induce them intentionally.
Making females hermie to males with colloidal silver for example doesent make seeds that would hermie, because it doesent change the genetic base that dictates the amount of that hormone, but it only blocks that hormone temporarily on a specific flower you spray it on and thus produces male flowers in female plant. And without a proper male component, the resulting seeds will only have genetic instructions in how to make females, so result is feminised seeds that doesent hermie any easier than females from regular seeds.
Gene that makes plants hermie is what controls the amount of ethylene. Ethylene is what determines sex for plants. Females that hermies have too little ethylene, because when ethylene levels drop under a certain point, the plant starts to make male flowers instead of female flowers.Here you are again CannaOneStar spreading your non-sense unscientifically based info.
Everyone, listen up. As we have all learned, environment plays a critical role in expression of plant DNA.
Inherently when a plant expresses dual sexes it is a result of reverse transcription (environment), or mutation, or chemical forced genetic recombination.
Thus any deviation in genetic material has the potential to be expressed in offspring.
Hermetic genetics are an evolutionary trait of the plant as it is an imperfect flower. It is also a dominant allele likely as it increases the plants survivability.
So, in conclusion hermies should be destroyed to prevent contamination of gene pool.
Tim Alchimia said:Hi J, thanks for the question. Yes, a female plant can be "reversed" that is, treated with Silver Thiosulfate Solution (STS) to induce it to produce male pollen sacs. Then that pollen can be used to pollinate a non reversed clone of the same plant to create S1 seeds (self-pollinated 1st generation) which are feminised "copies" of the plant, although they will rarely produce and identical copy of the mother. You'll need to do some more in-depth research into the subject if you're serious about it, but Silver Thiosulfate Solution is made by mixing precise quantities of Silver Nitrate with Sodium Thiosulphate and distilled water. It's applied early in the flower period and basically works as an ethylene-blocker, causing hormonal changes
This is the advice you want to heed @Palomar. Not every seed produced from such a union will show the same trait but around half will and you'll be forever having to keep an eye out for male flowers in your crop unless you want to breed thru a few generations to weed out the herms. I did that once with some Afghani Kush plants and got true breeding boys and girls from a hermie made batch of seeds from a friend. Turned out I didn't like the buzz off any of them so haven't grown any out for years.@Palomar Hermie plants are to be destroyed. I suggest buying some inexpensive regular seeds with a desirable profile and starting there. The variability you will get with such mutagenic plants will be vast and won't align with what you want. Imagine and entire generation where you have to watch for dual sex....not fun.
Ethylene is both genetically and environmentally controlled. Learn the basics lol.@CannaOnerStar
Here you are again quoting a random blog to support your frail arguments.
You even said it yourself, thus verifying my point.
Ethylene is genetically controlled. Either environmentally forced expression or genetic expression. Case in point.
Where I have an issue is someone is about to waste their time with poor genetic material to produce seeds.
@Palomar Hermie plants are to be destroyed. I suggest buying some inexpensive regular seeds with a desirable profile and starting there. The variability you will get with such mutagenic plants will be vast and won't align with what you want. Imagine and entire generation where you have to watch for dual sex....not fun.
Sorry but saying that is like saying that you should only grow medium length plants and not tall plants because if you breed with tall plants(which are not medium), you might get short plants, because long and tall and both deviations from the normal/medium.Don’t try to make your breeding lines with hermie genetics. Regardless if it’s male into female or female into male. You want your genetics to be one or the other. You don’t want those genetics popping up again. Kill em and clean your area up really good.
Why even take the chance when you can build stable genetics? Tall and short is a terrible example because those vary on your grow environment. In this case we’re talking about the sex of the plant and the stability of the genetics it will be passing down. If you want stable genetics and not maybe possibly have a male hermie into a female and maybe possibly getting a boost in female producing chemicals when you can just produce ones that are straight up female? I definitely get what your saying and it makes sense. I just don’t see the point in using that over let’s say using CS and getting feminized seeds.Sorry but saying that is like saying that you should only grow medium length plants and not tall plants because if you breed with tall plants(which are not medium), you might get short plants, because long and tall and both deviations from the normal/medium.
Amount of ethylene genetically is like similar in how it works for plant bushiness for example:
If you have genetics that make the plant like single stick with not much branching, then the offsprings will be have a chance to grow like that.
If you have genetics that make the plant bushy, then the offsprings will have chance to be bushy.
If you have genetics that make plants produce low amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from female to male), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce low amount of ethylene.
If you have genetics that make plants produce high amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from male to female), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce high amount of ethylene.
If you use genetics that barely make enough ethylene to not hermie in good conditions, they will hermie easily even with small light leaks or stuff like that. This is why you dont want low ethylene producing genes. But if you have genes that make tons of ethylene, so much that even males start producing female buds. Why would this be a bad thing? I mean its the exact opposite of what causes female -> male hermaphroditism.
If you think at what makes a plant bushy vs not bush out much and instead focusing on main stem, it works the same way. Plants genes dictate how much of a hormone the plant makes that inhibit side branches to grow freely. Low amounts will produce bushier plants and amount of this hormone can be shaped environmentally(with topping, LST etc) like amount of ethylene can(with STS or giving it light during dark).
Indicas have been bred to have lower amounts of this hormone produced, so they grow bushier and because they use so much energy on branches, they stay shorter also. Sativas and especially ruderalis seems to produce more of this hormone, as they bush out less unless you LST or top them. This hormone is produced at the growth tip, this is why topping causes very low amounts of it and causes the plant to bush out instead. Also when you bend the top to 90 degrees or more, that hormone doesent get to lower branches as much and they start to grow more.
Someone prove me wrong if i am, but all the science, reason and peoples experiences i have heard about this say that this is the case.
Dude if a plant grows hermie in either direction it's because it's genes are messed up and it will pass that trait on to many of it's offspring so isn't worth using to propagate any new seeds.Sorry but saying that is like saying that you should only grow medium length plants and not tall plants because if you breed with tall plants(which are not medium), you might get short plants, because long and tall and both deviations from the normal/medium.
Amount of ethylene genetically is like similar in how it works for plant bushiness for example:
If you have genetics that make the plant like single stick with not much branching, then the offsprings will be have a chance to grow like that.
If you have genetics that make the plant bushy, then the offsprings will have chance to be bushy.
If you have genetics that make plants produce low amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from female to male), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce low amount of ethylene.
If you have genetics that make plants produce high amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from male to female), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce high amount of ethylene.
If you use genetics that barely make enough ethylene to not hermie in good conditions, they will hermie easily even with small light leaks or stuff like that. This is why you dont want low ethylene producing genes. But if you have genes that make tons of ethylene, so much that even males start producing female buds. Why would this be a bad thing? I mean its the exact opposite of what causes female -> male hermaphroditism.
If you think at what makes a plant bushy vs not bush out much and instead focusing on main stem, it works the same way. Plants genes dictate how much of a hormone the plant makes that inhibit side branches to grow freely. Low amounts will produce bushier plants and amount of this hormone can be shaped environmentally(with topping, LST etc) like amount of ethylene can(with STS or giving it light during dark).
Indicas have been bred to have lower amounts of this hormone produced, so they grow bushier and because they use so much energy on branches, they stay shorter also. Sativas and especially ruderalis seems to produce more of this hormone, as they bush out less unless you LST or top them. This hormone is produced at the growth tip, this is why topping causes very low amounts of it and causes the plant to bush out instead. Also when you bend the top to 90 degrees or more, that hormone doesent get to lower branches as much and they start to grow more.
Someone prove me wrong if i am, but all the science, reason and peoples experiences i have heard about this say that this is the case.
Well if the plant looked fine otherwise and he has females ready to be pollinated and it would be a very big hassle to get a new male, especially one as good if this one looked extra fine. Then, well there should be no harm in this either way. I have seen this question few times over the years on local forums and there were some old timer breeders sharing their experiences with using this sort of males. From their experience using these sort of males that make female buds also causes female to male ratio be slightly higher it seems and the males that do show up tend to make female buds, females are normal females that do not make male flowers.Why even take the chance when you can build stable genetics? Tall and short is a terrible example because those vary on your grow environment. In this case we’re talking about the sex of the plant and the stability of the genetics it will be passing down. If you want stable genetics and not maybe possibly have a male hermie into a female and maybe possibly getting a boost in female producing chemicals when you can just produce ones that are straight up female? I definitely get what your saying and it makes sense. I just don’t see the point in using that over let’s say using CS and getting feminized seeds.
lol what the heck? Maybe i should had used a different word than that indicas have been bred to have a certain amount of that hormone, because yes you are right, most likely it was caused by natural spreading and the mother nature guiding the plants to grow in a certain ways to fit the environment. But it is also possible that people have been selecting the bushy plants because they noticed they produce more per square foot or something like that. This we do not know and because we dont know if the selection was natural or by humans, we dont know if indicas were actually bred or evolved by natural selection. But whether the selection is natural or by people, does it really matter? It sounds like you are just trying to pick up a fight.If you're such a 'science' guy why haven't you realized that all cannabis strains are related and there really is no indica or sativa strains but just different breeds of cannabis that evolved different traits according to the conditions they evolved in as science now realizes. Migrating birds likely ate seeds from the original plots of early cannabis and spread them around where they evolved to do best in a new environment. Funny how they never flew to North America as there are no land-race ones from here.
Humans are the ones who decided to call short bushy ones indicas and the taller, lanky ones sativas.
Well i disagree with this. Ofc you can put a plant in an environment where it cant grow very big and cause it to be small and short because of that, but this is not what we are talking about here. But if you cross a super bushy plant and normal bushy plant, you dont suddenly get tall lanky sativa type growth with next to no branching. You get variation between bushy and super bushy until you stabilise it to normal bushy, super bushy or something in between. Similarly if you use high ethylene with normal ethylene genes, you get variation between normal and high, not all of a sudden very low ethylene.Just because a plant is tall doesn’t mean it’s offspring won’t be short
I believe that honour goes to you stubbornly sticking to that dumb ethylene thing that only proves that the plant is genetically weird and should not be used to breed with.It sounds like you are just trying to pick up a fight.
If you got some tall and lanky plants from bushy seeds, they might have had some sativa genes in them that had not been properly stabilised away. That sort of stuff can show up in hybrids for sure. As with this plant there is a possibility that what ever he mixes this plant with would have hidden hermie traits that make females turn male, even if its not expressed in that particular individual plant. This could make the ethylene stuff dip low in some future offsprings, but that would require the gene variance to already be there and not bred out properly. This is the stuff where it gets more complex at and why im talking about normal and high only. The truth is that even if a plant expresses normal sexing, there might be hidden hermie genes in it. This is why you do not want to use female -> male hermies at any point.Well I still agree with what your saying as far as the ethylene is concerned and I only have brief experience with breeding but the seeds I got all varied in pheno. Tall and short and Indica and Sativa are different of course Indicas are known to grow shorter that doesn’t mean they won’t get tall and skinny get what I’m saying? I just ran 40+plant pheno hunt with 6 strains and they were all different shapes and sizes regardless of Indica or Sativa. But I’m also indoor. Outdoor genes would be expressed differently. I took some clones and put them outside from one of my GG#4s and they are much taller and lankier outside than the mother was, which was short and chunky.
- Nature is what we think of as pre-wiring and is influenced by genetic inheritance and other biological factors.
- Nurture is generally taken as the influence of external factors after conception, e.g., the product of exposure, life experiences and learning on an individual.