Herm Use?

This one I was saving for pollen... and then...

Don't look like a herm, looks male. Strait up male. But I'm high.

So it was a male that turned female, right? If so, its not a things that should matter. It doesent make female herm to males if you make pollen using that. It might however get slightly more females than males from the seeds and the males that you get might hermie in similar way than that.

Herming from male to female is the opposite thing happening than when females hermie to male. If a female hermies to male, it is because of lack of a certain hormone. When it is males that hermie to females, it is because there is too much of this hormone. The amount of this hormone dictates whether the plant grows male or female flowers. It can be genetically high or low. With your plant it is genetically high, so in fact it should help females not to hermie to males as easily. If a plant has genetically low amounts of the hormone, then it causes females to hermie to males. So never ever use a female that started making male buds without using something like colloidal silver to induce them intentionally.

Making females hermie to males with colloidal silver for example doesent make seeds that would hermie, because it doesent change the genetic base that dictates the amount of that hormone, but it only blocks that hormone temporarily on a specific flower you spray it on and thus produces male flowers in female plant. And without a proper male component, the resulting seeds will only have genetic instructions in how to make females, so result is feminised seeds that doesent hermie any easier than females from regular seeds.

CannaOnerStar said:

So it was a male that turned female, right? If so, its not a things that should matter. It doesent make female herm to males if you make pollen using that. It might however get slightly more females than males from the seeds and the males that you get might hermie in similar way than that.

Herming from male to female is the opposite thing happening than when females hermie to male. If a female hermies to male, it is because of lack of a certain hormone. When it is males that hermie to females, it is because there is too much of this hormone. The amount of this hormone dictates whether the plant grows male or female flowers. It can be genetically high or low. With your plant it is genetically high, so in fact it should help females not to hermie to males as easily. If a plant has genetically low amounts of the hormone, then it causes females to hermie to males. So never ever use a female that started making male buds without using something like colloidal silver to induce them intentionally.

Making females hermie to males with colloidal silver for example doesent make seeds that would hermie, because it doesent change the genetic base that dictates the amount of that hormone, but it only blocks that hormone temporarily on a specific flower you spray it on and thus produces male flowers in female plant. And without a proper male component, the resulting seeds will only have genetic instructions in how to make females, so result is feminised seeds that doesent hermie any easier than females from regular seeds.

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Really appreciate the feedback here

CannaOnerStar said:

So it was a male that turned female, right? If so, its not a things that should matter. It doesent make female herm to males if you make pollen using that. It might however get slightly more females than males from the seeds and the males that you get might hermie in similar way than that.

Herming from male to female is the opposite thing happening than when females hermie to male. If a female hermies to male, it is because of lack of a certain hormone. When it is males that hermie to females, it is because there is too much of this hormone. The amount of this hormone dictates whether the plant grows male or female flowers. It can be genetically high or low. With your plant it is genetically high, so in fact it should help females not to hermie to males as easily. If a plant has genetically low amounts of the hormone, then it causes females to hermie to males. So never ever use a female that started making male buds without using something like colloidal silver to induce them intentionally.

Making females hermie to males with colloidal silver for example doesent make seeds that would hermie, because it doesent change the genetic base that dictates the amount of that hormone, but it only blocks that hormone temporarily on a specific flower you spray it on and thus produces male flowers in female plant. And without a proper male component, the resulting seeds will only have genetic instructions in how to make females, so result is feminised seeds that doesent hermie any easier than females from regular seeds.

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Here you are again CannaOneStar spreading your non-sense unscientifically based info.

Everyone, listen up. As we have all learned, environment plays a critical role in expression of plant DNA.
Inherently when a plant expresses dual sexes it is a result of reverse transcription (environment), or mutation, or chemical forced genetic recombination.

Thus any deviation in genetic material has the potential to be expressed in offspring.

Hermetic genetics are an evolutionary trait of the plant as it is an imperfect flower. It is also a dominant allele likely as it increases the plants survivability.

So, in conclusion hermies should be destroyed to prevent contamination of gene pool.

Dabbie McDoob said:

Here you are again CannaOneStar spreading your non-sense unscientifically based info.

Everyone, listen up. As we have all learned, environment plays a critical role in expression of plant DNA.
Inherently when a plant expresses dual sexes it is a result of reverse transcription (environment), or mutation, or chemical forced genetic recombination.

Thus any deviation in genetic material has the potential to be expressed in offspring.

Hermetic genetics are an evolutionary trait of the plant as it is an imperfect flower. It is also a dominant allele likely as it increases the plants survivability.

So, in conclusion hermies should be destroyed to prevent contamination of gene pool.

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Gene that makes plants hermie is what controls the amount of ethylene. Ethylene is what determines sex for plants. Females that hermies have too little ethylene, because when ethylene levels drop under a certain point, the plant starts to make male flowers instead of female flowers.

So, what causes herming female -> male genetically is a gene that does not produce enough ethylene. Or there are some environmental factors that disrupt ethylene production, like light leaks during dark. How strong this gene is is what also determines how easily the plant will hermie, weaker genes get more easily affected by environmental factors.

Tim Alchimia said:

Hi J, thanks for the question. Yes, a female plant can be "reversed" that is, treated with Silver Thiosulfate Solution (STS) to induce it to produce male pollen sacs. Then that pollen can be used to pollinate a non reversed clone of the same plant to create S1 seeds (self-pollinated 1st generation) which are feminised "copies" of the plant, although they will rarely produce and identical copy of the mother. You'll need to do some more in-depth research into the subject if you're serious about it, but Silver Thiosulfate Solution is made by mixing precise quantities of Silver Nitrate with Sodium Thiosulphate and distilled water. It's applied early in the flower period and basically works as an ethylene-blocker, causing hormonal changes

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You see the gene that causes herming from female to male is totally different thing than plants that hermie male to female. These two things work in completely opposite ways biochemically.

Thats the science behind it. Old timer breeders(outdoor) around where i live have known that males that hermie to female doesent matter. This thing has been known for decades and todays science seems to point out to the fact that it is true.

Im sure that no one has done any proper testing that fits the scientific method and is done well enough that it can pass peer reviews, where they would test this thing. So yes, you are right that what i say has not been scientifically proven. You even saying stupid shit like that makes it seem like you dont know what science is..


Do you have some more recent scientific findings about this, which would prove this to not be true, despite it making sense to previous scientific knowledge and experiences of breeders, or do you just disagree because you have no idea about what you are talking about?

@CannaOnerStar

Here you are again quoting a random blog to support your frail arguments.
You even said it yourself, thus verifying my point.

Ethylene is genetically controlled. Either environmentally forced expression or genetic expression. Case in point.

Where I have an issue is someone is about to waste their time with poor genetic material to produce seeds.

@Palomar Hermie plants are to be destroyed. I suggest buying some inexpensive regular seeds with a desirable profile and starting there. The variability you will get with such mutagenic plants will be vast and won't align with what you want. Imagine and entire generation where you have to watch for dual sex....not fun.

Dabbie McDoob said:

@Palomar Hermie plants are to be destroyed. I suggest buying some inexpensive regular seeds with a desirable profile and starting there. The variability you will get with such mutagenic plants will be vast and won't align with what you want. Imagine and entire generation where you have to watch for dual sex....not fun.

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This is the advice you want to heed @Palomar. Not every seed produced from such a union will show the same trait but around half will and you'll be forever having to keep an eye out for male flowers in your crop unless you want to breed thru a few generations to weed out the herms. I did that once with some Afghani Kush plants and got true breeding boys and girls from a hermie made batch of seeds from a friend. Turned out I didn't like the buzz off any of them so haven't grown any out for years.

I don't know everything about breeding but have been pollen-chucking for 20 years and know what to look for to get true breeding seeds that don't show hermie tendencies in following generations. All pot plants have the ability to herm but many are more prone to it than others and not what you want in the grow room. Stress can cause them to show but is not the cause of making plants herm. If so all my plants would herm 'cause I stress the hell out of my plants all the time.

Chuck it!

Dabbie McDoob said:

@CannaOnerStar

Here you are again quoting a random blog to support your frail arguments.
You even said it yourself, thus verifying my point.

Ethylene is genetically controlled. Either environmentally forced expression or genetic expression. Case in point.

Where I have an issue is someone is about to waste their time with poor genetic material to produce seeds.

@Palomar Hermie plants are to be destroyed. I suggest buying some inexpensive regular seeds with a desirable profile and starting there. The variability you will get with such mutagenic plants will be vast and won't align with what you want. Imagine and entire generation where you have to watch for dual sex....not fun.

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Ethylene is both genetically and environmentally controlled. Learn the basics lol.

I seriously dont get why you have such a hard time with this. This has been known for decades and there has been numerous studies made about this and this is why STS feminisation works etc etc. Everyone knows this. You arguing about this is just ridiculous.

Here is a study from decades ago that proved what i say about ethylene and they do control it environmentally there, so environment has an effect on gene expression, you would know this if you knew the basics about genetics: https://pbsociety.org.pl/journals/index.php/asbp/article/view/asbp.1978.013/4115

STS is ethylene blocker, thats why it causes females to make male buds. It reduces amount of ethylene and low ethylene = plant makes male flowers. If you have too high levels of ethylene in male, then it starts to make female flowers. High amounts of ethylene is good if you want females. So if you use males that have too high amount of ethylene genetically, its only a good thing if it genetically makes big amounts of ethylene. Unless ofc you want to grow pure males.

Again if you have some newer science about this that proves this wrong and shows an elternative reason for all this that the yesterdays science did not understand. Please do share it with me. I suspect that you do not have such info, nor any other info than your own ignorant opinion. But im happy if you prove me wrong.

Don’t try to make your breeding lines with hermie genetics. Regardless if it’s male into female or female into male. You want your genetics to be one or the other. You don’t want those genetics popping up again. Kill em and clean your area up really good.

Macncheesehaze said:

Don’t try to make your breeding lines with hermie genetics. Regardless if it’s male into female or female into male. You want your genetics to be one or the other. You don’t want those genetics popping up again. Kill em and clean your area up really good.

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Sorry but saying that is like saying that you should only grow medium length plants and not tall plants because if you breed with tall plants(which are not medium), you might get short plants, because long and tall and both deviations from the normal/medium.

Amount of ethylene genetically is like similar in how it works for plant bushiness for example:

If you have genetics that make the plant like single stick with not much branching, then the offsprings will be have a chance to grow like that.

If you have genetics that make the plant bushy, then the offsprings will have chance to be bushy.

If you have genetics that make plants produce low amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from female to male), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce low amount of ethylene.

If you have genetics that make plants produce high amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from male to female), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce high amount of ethylene.

If you use genetics that barely make enough ethylene to not hermie in good conditions, they will hermie easily even with small light leaks or stuff like that. This is why you dont want low ethylene producing genes. But if you have genes that make tons of ethylene, so much that even males start producing female buds. Why would this be a bad thing? I mean its the exact opposite of what causes female -> male hermaphroditism.

If you think at what makes a plant bushy vs not bush out much and instead focusing on main stem, it works the same way. Plants genes dictate how much of a hormone the plant makes that inhibit side branches to grow freely. Low amounts will produce bushier plants and amount of this hormone can be shaped environmentally(with topping, LST etc) like amount of ethylene can(with STS or giving it light during dark).

Indicas have been bred to have lower amounts of this hormone produced, so they grow bushier and because they use so much energy on branches, they stay shorter also. Sativas and especially ruderalis seems to produce more of this hormone, as they bush out less unless you LST or top them. This hormone is produced at the growth tip, this is why topping causes very low amounts of it and causes the plant to bush out instead. Also when you bend the top to 90 degrees or more, that hormone doesent get to lower branches as much and they start to grow more.


Someone prove me wrong if i am, but all the science, reason and peoples experiences i have heard about this say that this is the case.

CannaOnerStar said:

Sorry but saying that is like saying that you should only grow medium length plants and not tall plants because if you breed with tall plants(which are not medium), you might get short plants, because long and tall and both deviations from the normal/medium.

Amount of ethylene genetically is like similar in how it works for plant bushiness for example:

If you have genetics that make the plant like single stick with not much branching, then the offsprings will be have a chance to grow like that.

If you have genetics that make the plant bushy, then the offsprings will have chance to be bushy.

If you have genetics that make plants produce low amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from female to male), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce low amount of ethylene.

If you have genetics that make plants produce high amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from male to female), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce high amount of ethylene.

If you use genetics that barely make enough ethylene to not hermie in good conditions, they will hermie easily even with small light leaks or stuff like that. This is why you dont want low ethylene producing genes. But if you have genes that make tons of ethylene, so much that even males start producing female buds. Why would this be a bad thing? I mean its the exact opposite of what causes female -> male hermaphroditism.

If you think at what makes a plant bushy vs not bush out much and instead focusing on main stem, it works the same way. Plants genes dictate how much of a hormone the plant makes that inhibit side branches to grow freely. Low amounts will produce bushier plants and amount of this hormone can be shaped environmentally(with topping, LST etc) like amount of ethylene can(with STS or giving it light during dark).

Indicas have been bred to have lower amounts of this hormone produced, so they grow bushier and because they use so much energy on branches, they stay shorter also. Sativas and especially ruderalis seems to produce more of this hormone, as they bush out less unless you LST or top them. This hormone is produced at the growth tip, this is why topping causes very low amounts of it and causes the plant to bush out instead. Also when you bend the top to 90 degrees or more, that hormone doesent get to lower branches as much and they start to grow more.


Someone prove me wrong if i am, but all the science, reason and peoples experiences i have heard about this say that this is the case.

Click to expand...

Why even take the chance when you can build stable genetics? Tall and short is a terrible example because those vary on your grow environment. In this case we’re talking about the sex of the plant and the stability of the genetics it will be passing down. If you want stable genetics and not maybe possibly have a male hermie into a female and maybe possibly getting a boost in female producing chemicals when you can just produce ones that are straight up female? I definitely get what your saying and it makes sense. I just don’t see the point in using that over let’s say using CS and getting feminized seeds.

CannaOnerStar said:

Sorry but saying that is like saying that you should only grow medium length plants and not tall plants because if you breed with tall plants(which are not medium), you might get short plants, because long and tall and both deviations from the normal/medium.

Amount of ethylene genetically is like similar in how it works for plant bushiness for example:

If you have genetics that make the plant like single stick with not much branching, then the offsprings will be have a chance to grow like that.

If you have genetics that make the plant bushy, then the offsprings will have chance to be bushy.

If you have genetics that make plants produce low amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from female to male), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce low amount of ethylene.

If you have genetics that make plants produce high amounts of ethylene(which makes plants hermie from male to female), then the offsprings will have a chance to also produce high amount of ethylene.

If you use genetics that barely make enough ethylene to not hermie in good conditions, they will hermie easily even with small light leaks or stuff like that. This is why you dont want low ethylene producing genes. But if you have genes that make tons of ethylene, so much that even males start producing female buds. Why would this be a bad thing? I mean its the exact opposite of what causes female -> male hermaphroditism.

If you think at what makes a plant bushy vs not bush out much and instead focusing on main stem, it works the same way. Plants genes dictate how much of a hormone the plant makes that inhibit side branches to grow freely. Low amounts will produce bushier plants and amount of this hormone can be shaped environmentally(with topping, LST etc) like amount of ethylene can(with STS or giving it light during dark).

Indicas have been bred to have lower amounts of this hormone produced, so they grow bushier and because they use so much energy on branches, they stay shorter also. Sativas and especially ruderalis seems to produce more of this hormone, as they bush out less unless you LST or top them. This hormone is produced at the growth tip, this is why topping causes very low amounts of it and causes the plant to bush out instead. Also when you bend the top to 90 degrees or more, that hormone doesent get to lower branches as much and they start to grow more.


Someone prove me wrong if i am, but all the science, reason and peoples experiences i have heard about this say that this is the case.

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Dude if a plant grows hermie in either direction it's because it's genes are messed up and it will pass that trait on to many of it's offspring so isn't worth using to propagate any new seeds.

You can argue ethylene until you're blue in the face but it's genetics that determine that too so it's still a messed up plant and not worth keeping unless you just want to experiment with it.

If I paid good money for seeds that did that I'd be raising hell about it and demanding my money back.

If you're such a 'science' guy why haven't you realized that all cannabis strains are related and there really is no indica or sativa strains but just different breeds of cannabis that evolved different traits according to the conditions they evolved in as science now realizes. Migrating birds likely ate seeds from the original plots of early cannabis and spread them around where they evolved to do best in a new environment. Funny how they never flew to North America as there are no land-race ones from here.

Humans are the ones who decided to call short bushy ones indicas and the taller, lanky ones sativas.

Macncheesehaze said:

Why even take the chance when you can build stable genetics? Tall and short is a terrible example because those vary on your grow environment. In this case we’re talking about the sex of the plant and the stability of the genetics it will be passing down. If you want stable genetics and not maybe possibly have a male hermie into a female and maybe possibly getting a boost in female producing chemicals when you can just produce ones that are straight up female? I definitely get what your saying and it makes sense. I just don’t see the point in using that over let’s say using CS and getting feminized seeds.

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Well if the plant looked fine otherwise and he has females ready to be pollinated and it would be a very big hassle to get a new male, especially one as good if this one looked extra fine. Then, well there should be no harm in this either way. I have seen this question few times over the years on local forums and there were some old timer breeders sharing their experiences with using this sort of males. From their experience using these sort of males that make female buds also causes female to male ratio be slightly higher it seems and the males that do show up tend to make female buds, females are normal females that do not make male flowers.

Amount of ethylene also varies based on environment. When you give light to plant during dark, it will mess up its ethylene production. Why do you think a plant hermies if you give it some light during dark? Then if you give it tons more than just small leaks, it turn into vegging, because it starts to make so little or no ethylene that it cant flower at all and it turns to vegging mode.

He is not trying to get feminised seeds and using pollen from this does not produce fem seeds. It might(not proven, but based on peoples experiences) have the effect that it makes a bit more females than males, this experience of peoples would go nicely with the findings about ethylene.

This is a male plant that started to make few female buds, not a female plant that started making male buds. They are opposite things really. Same as with plant tallness or any other new genetic trait. If you mix tall with medium, you get variance between medium and tall, not between short and tall. If you mix genes that make high amounts of ethylene with normal amount, you get variance between normal and high. That plant pollinating itself would produce all males that sometimes put out female buds, so they would be no good. But that plant pollinating another plant(that is female) it just high amounts of ethylene from the fathers side and if the mom has normal amount of ethylene production from its genes, so it should not suddenly make variance to low ethylene, unless ofc the female plant used here would have low ethylene genetically. Only then you would get variance between low, medium and high = hermies from male to female and female to male and some that dont hermie.

So using this to pollinate a normal female should not cause the females to make male flowers, but it might make some males push out some female flowers. It would also quite likely mean that some of the plants would not go hermie easily from environmental factors.

OldMedUser said:

If you're such a 'science' guy why haven't you realized that all cannabis strains are related and there really is no indica or sativa strains but just different breeds of cannabis that evolved different traits according to the conditions they evolved in as science now realizes. Migrating birds likely ate seeds from the original plots of early cannabis and spread them around where they evolved to do best in a new environment. Funny how they never flew to North America as there are no land-race ones from here.

Humans are the ones who decided to call short bushy ones indicas and the taller, lanky ones sativas.

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lol what the heck? Maybe i should had used a different word than that indicas have been bred to have a certain amount of that hormone, because yes you are right, most likely it was caused by natural spreading and the mother nature guiding the plants to grow in a certain ways to fit the environment. But it is also possible that people have been selecting the bushy plants because they noticed they produce more per square foot or something like that. This we do not know and because we dont know if the selection was natural or by humans, we dont know if indicas were actually bred or evolved by natural selection. But whether the selection is natural or by people, does it really matter? It sounds like you are just trying to pick up a fight.

For the rest of what you said, i jsut wrote pretty much the same thing on post above to other guy.

I still get what your saying lol BUT who wants unstable genetics when starting a breeding program? Let’s talk about why people breed. Get more seeds to grow for more flower, in which case we want more female than anything. Another reason would be to mix or create new genetics, again you want a stable bloodline to run off of. Just because a plant is tall doesn’t mean it’s offspring won’t be short, the Phenos will vary for atleast a few generations until it’s stable. Again stability in breeding is probably one of the highest priorities otherwise why be selective at all?

Macncheesehaze said:

Just because a plant is tall doesn’t mean it’s offspring won’t be short

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Well i disagree with this. Ofc you can put a plant in an environment where it cant grow very big and cause it to be small and short because of that, but this is not what we are talking about here. But if you cross a super bushy plant and normal bushy plant, you dont suddenly get tall lanky sativa type growth with next to no branching. You get variation between bushy and super bushy until you stabilise it to normal bushy, super bushy or something in between. Similarly if you use high ethylene with normal ethylene genes, you get variation between normal and high, not all of a sudden very low ethylene.

CannaOnerStar said:

It sounds like you are just trying to pick up a fight.

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I believe that honour goes to you stubbornly sticking to that dumb ethylene thing that only proves that the plant is genetically weird and should not be used to breed with.

I'm done either way. It's like flogging a dead mule. lol

Well I still agree with what your saying as far as the ethylene is concerned and I only have brief experience with breeding but the seeds I got all varied in pheno. Tall and short and Indica and Sativa are different of course Indicas are known to grow shorter that doesn’t mean they won’t get tall and skinny get what I’m saying? I just ran 40+plant pheno hunt with 6 strains and they were all different shapes and sizes regardless of Indica or Sativa. But I’m also indoor. Outdoor genes would be expressed differently. I took some clones and put them outside from one of my GG#4s and they are much taller and lankier outside than the mother was, which was short and chunky.

Macncheesehaze said:

Well I still agree with what your saying as far as the ethylene is concerned and I only have brief experience with breeding but the seeds I got all varied in pheno. Tall and short and Indica and Sativa are different of course Indicas are known to grow shorter that doesn’t mean they won’t get tall and skinny get what I’m saying? I just ran 40+plant pheno hunt with 6 strains and they were all different shapes and sizes regardless of Indica or Sativa. But I’m also indoor. Outdoor genes would be expressed differently. I took some clones and put them outside from one of my GG#4s and they are much taller and lankier outside than the mother was, which was short and chunky.

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If you got some tall and lanky plants from bushy seeds, they might have had some sativa genes in them that had not been properly stabilised away. That sort of stuff can show up in hybrids for sure. As with this plant there is a possibility that what ever he mixes this plant with would have hidden hermie traits that make females turn male, even if its not expressed in that particular individual plant. This could make the ethylene stuff dip low in some future offsprings, but that would require the gene variance to already be there and not bred out properly. This is the stuff where it gets more complex at and why im talking about normal and high only. The truth is that even if a plant expresses normal sexing, there might be hidden hermie genes in it. This is why you do not want to use female -> male hermies at any point.

And yes everything relating to genes is nature via nurture. Genes express themselves according to external conditions. Anyone who doesent know this, doesent know the one of the most important things to understand about the basics of biology. I know there has been a long debate on nature vs nurture, but as you pointed out, its pretty evident that environment controls gene expression. This also applies to human psychology:

• Nature is what we think of as pre-wiring and is influenced by genetic inheritance and other biological factors.
• Nurture is generally taken as the influence of external factors after conception, e.g., the product of exposure, life experiences and learning on an individual.

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For female plants and going hermie with light leaks, would be equal to how human experiences shape how the genetic predispositions express themselves in psyche and behavior.

There is a certain gene that seems to cause people to be prone to schizophrenia and other psychosis. Basically there are 3 variations to this gene, one that makes people develop some sort of mental illness with psychotic symptoms quite likely, even with not much stress or drug abuse. These people will likely not just get a temporary psychosis from smoking weed, but full blown schizophrenia, which would had come out sooner or later. They also might show some signs of psychotic way of thinking even without any full blown symptoms.
Another variation to this gene that the person might develop some temporary psychosis from drug abuse(or smoking weed or doing psychedelics), but it would likely not develop into schizophrenia etc and would go away after a while if treated. Most of them require heavy abuse of psyche before symptoms would develop.
Then there is a variation that doesent seem to go into psychosis, at least from weed, no matter how much they smoke.

The reason why this gene works like this is because we have a system in our brains that prunes off any paths(=thoughts) in our brains that did not make sense, most likely did not even come to our consciousness.

The gene that controls this thing really controls how easily the system starts to work normally again if disrupted. For people for who this gene really well working gene variation, those "wrong" thoughts get removed properly. But for those who develop schizophrenia this system will get seriously fucked up if it would get fucked up and it would get fucked up easily. For those who would only develop some shorter psychosis, the system would correct itself after a while to normal if the person is treated properly and he stops smoking weed etc. The one with schizophrenia might not go normal ever, but could end up being symptomless with life long medication or high chance of starting to develop symptoms again under stress/influence/whatevertriggers.


Interesting stuff.. Enough of this rambling, getting a bit offtopic