Help with Lights?

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Supercrop/lst/defoliation, no topping is how I get compactness. I.e., not scrog, the opposite. These plants were not topped at all. (lighter green one is a baby showing initial lateral development)
Some nice looking plants there :) I'm going to buy my pots and 250w mh and hps Friday with ballast. Then maybe.move my tent to better location. Check heat and possibly jump up to a CMH at 315w but a lot of them are confusing me like Phillips ones requiring another part just to run them other than the needed standard ballast. But what LST do you do? Bend and secure? Super cropping? Anything else I thought defoiliation was an advanced lst but I'm new literally like 2 weeks into reading and research.
 
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EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Stay the hell away from anything Miracle-Gro! That fertilizer for trees and ferns will be loaded with toxic heavy metals as it's not made for growing things you're going to eat. If you are going to use ferts not specifically for pot get something made for tomatoes or other edibles. Got to watch those NPK numbers too. There are powdered nutrients that work well like Jacks or Peter's Professional. One of the sponsors here sells a dry fert that a lot of guys here are using now called Mega Crop. Getting rave reviews and is a one part fertilizer. Not sold in the UK tho.

I'm not familiar with all the things guys use over there but Bio-Bizz or something comes to mind for soil and nutrients. I tutored a Scottish guy through his first grows thru private messaging at another site. He has serious learning difficulties so it took a lot of explaining. Was just on chatting with me a couple days ago and is doing great now. He uses that Bio stuff and likes autos.

Have you got any hydro stores or large garden centers near by? Tell them you want to grow some tomatoes in pots on your balcony and want some decent soil and maybe some fertilizer and that should steer you in the right direction. With decent soil you won't even need nutes for most of the grow.



For HID lighting a 400w will do up to 3x3, 600 - 4x4 and 1000 - 5x5'. Different styles of hoods will also affect the footprint of your light. Two lights equal or greater than the output of one larger light will give you better coverage than a single light source but with air cooled hoods it would be hard if not impossible to fit two in a small tent. I use open Adjust-A-Wing type reflectors tho I have a big glassed-in air cooled hood. I find it has too small a footprint for my liking. I rigged up a socket at the other end and can put two bulbs in it to get a lot more light out of it but the footprint again is too small.

View attachment 4140147

View attachment 4140148

:peace:
That' a very precise diagram. Man I try googling this stuff and I don' know if I'm searching the wrong keywords or just Google is not giving me what I want to find but thank you. I'e screen shotted it to my phone. I'l print these out and make my own little how-to-book so thank you guys. 1 question with the 315w bulb it would need another ballast of.its own right?

Because I have now currently 2x
200w cfl just to see what temps my tent run and learn a few lst practices and get my handle on plant nutrition and basics.

Friday 25th may I'll be buying 250w MH and 250w Super HPS. Although I'm looking for a 250w CMH replacement but im still searching at the moment and if im Happy with the temperatures and that they are not so high I'll buy a 315w one in next 2-3 weeks. I get paid weekly so buying a bulb alone and possibly ballast shouldn't be to much of a stretch. I actually fancy getting the Karma 8" Reflector but some sites say it' ok for 250w and others not. So I'm not sure but I did email them. They reckon it's £200 average price and 100% reflectivity. Couple that with a 250w bulb and the diagram you showed me with 6.76 as ft tent and some basic practices with lst and Super cropping and I should get a decent yield at some stage n my life lol.
 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
you could build a better LED unit for 200 pounds.
Not a fan of LED at the moment sorry. Don' know why it just doesn' appeal to me yet. Migro looks ok happened to stumble across that on YouTube. But I think more work is needed before I join over to the light side lol.
 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Shame, just checked lenth and width of karma and
84cm lenth
64cm width
My tent is just 80cm x 80cm.... really fancied that as well. Shame my tent is not a little bit longer.
 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Sorry missed this post.

There really are no truly silent fans. Avoid cheap ones. Go bigger than needed and use a variable transformer to turn it down, use acoustic ducting and an over sized filter. That's about the best way to go quiet. Ruck and RKV are good brands, nothing fancy but swiss bearings and German engineering. There are various silent fans, but non are silent. I used to use an airforce2 silent fan, its a true work horse but not really much quieter than my rucks. There are TD silent fans which I hear good things about. Mixed airflow fans are supposed to be quieter but they don't handle long ducts as well, so it depends on what your duct length and how many bends there will be.

You can box fans in and cut noise down more, its probably just as effective as some of these fancy fans that are built into a silencer, all the silencer is is a layer of sound muffling foam in a big metal tube.
There is a thread on here called "quiet the neighbours can hear you" its got some good practical tips, but there are certain frequencies that are hard to truly stop and fans are in that low frequency. Hence why its best to go big with everything and turn down the speed. The bigger the duct the less the airflow noise, the bigger the filter the less resistance and strain on your fan, also the filter last longer.

:bigjoint:
My friends running an RVK. Was quite surprised how quiet that was. Especially only when you walk into the immediate room you could hear it. I've got some 45mm 70kg dense Rockwood pads to place against my wall. They are very dense and block a lot of sound out. Im hoping placing this against my tent and between the wall of my next doors plus the 100 year old black mortar walls should muffle the sound quite well. Possibly to nothing at all. What size would you recommend for fan and filter if you said oversize them? For my .80cmx.80cm tent?

What colour kelvin do you guys find is bet for veg, I read somewhere between 3400-5000k was best as plants can't absorb any more than this. Any thoughts behind this?
 
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ANC

Well-Known Member
Not a fan of LED at the moment sorry. Don' know why it just doesn' appeal to me yet. Migro looks ok happened to stumble across that on YouTube. But I think more work is needed before I join over to the light side lol.
I'm not a fan of those giant arse Migrow COBs. But go and have a look at the cost of a similar power panel from HLG for example. It will yield circles around a 250W HPS. You will never have to buy bulbs or reflectors for it, and it will probably last 20 years.
 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
I'm not a fan of those giant arse Migrow COBs. But go and have a look at the cost of a similar power panel from HLG for example. It will yield circles around a 250W HPS. You will never have to buy bulbs or reflectors for it, and it will probably last 20 years.
What LED do you Think this image is??
 

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EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Could be anything. But guess its a promo pic as its literally on the ceiling and has flowers underneath.
It looks strange. I looked at a video just now, s how come 4k colours varies in so many lights, one was HLG something, one was a Lumii t5 and another was so.ething else but all 4 had different visual spectrums. I though 4000k was 4000k no matter how it' produced the visual would be the same or am I totally off?
 

Piratemccall

Active Member
Some nice looking plants there :) I'm going to buy my pots and 250w mh and hps Friday with ballast. Then maybe.move my tent to better location. Check heat and possibly jump up to a CMH at 315w but a lot of them are confusing me like Phillips ones requiring another part just to run them other than the needed standard ballast. But what LST do you do? Bend and secure? Super cropping? Anything else I thought defoiliation was an advanced lst but I'm new literally like 2 weeks into reading and research.
Thanks man. It varies plant to plant, but a general pattern is leave it alone for a few weeks, then when there's 6 or 7 inter nodes, I'll do the one supercrop 3 or 4 internodes up, and tie the tip to the plant with dental floss, so that the top is below the bottom/first inter node of main stem. The main stem will form a kind of "S". Then the side shoots will shoot out like this. (The main stem is the slightly thicker/longer one to the right. Strain: sativa dominant Blackjack):
20180416_061401.jpg
Then I'll let then growout. When the side shoots have grown out and and it's a layer of leaves, I'll strip it to it's foundation, like this(strain:Sunset Sherbet):
20180418_205004.jpg
Now, it's like you have 20 seedlings on sticks. This is a good time to feed the shoot directly with foliar feed. The goal is to activate every shoot, all the way to the first node on the first shoot, what I call the Alpha Larf :D We wont have larf, cuz it'll be activated like this(strain: Chocolate Hashberry):
20180418_052341.jpg
You see, we're starting to form a muscular plant. No growth sites have been removed, so they keep multiplying. This process kind of repeats. The period after the first defoliation, I call the Lush, so now you're in your first Lush. All the 20 or so growth tips should grow out fairly evenly, so it'll be bushing up like this. From here to flower it's mainly just lst/defoliation. Bending down stalks lightly, trimming away fan leaves blocking undergrowth(like that beautiful one in the middle), and, when it's a block of bust, stripping it to it's foundation and baby feeding it. As tops grow taller than the bush, I don't top them, just clip all the top leaves. This will slow the top growth and open up what's underneath, but will keep the shoot active.. Strain:Blackberry Kush):
20180430_085204.jpg
The Final Lush, will coincide with the onset of flower, when you strip it down and have a network of seedlings on sticks filling the space you'd like to flower... All kinds of methods, but this works well for me, and will give you the muscle hamster plants that look like budsicles sticking out of the ground you are looking for :P
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
My friends running an RVK. Was quite surprised how quiet that was. Especially only when you walk into the immediate room you could hear it. I've got some 45mm 70kg dense Rockwood pads to place against my wall. They are very dense and block a lot of sound out. Im hoping placing this against my tent and between the wall of my next doors plus the 100 year old black mortar walls should muffle the sound quite well. Possibly to nothing at all. What size would you recommend for fan and filter if you said oversize them? For my .80cmx.80cm tent?

What colour kelvin do you guys find is bet for veg, I read somewhere between 3400-5000k was best as plants can't absorb any more than this. Any thoughts behind this?
Yeah I like rockwool slab, in my old room I ripped up the floor and filled the cavity with RWA 90 I think it was. I also covered the slabs with bin liners (for dust purposes) and had them screwed to the back of the door. Its good for airflow sound but not so good for fan hum. Which is a bastard with cheapo fan speed controllers.
I also increased the mass of the wall by adding a layer of sound board with a layer of green glue and more sound board. Plus my fan was in a box the size of a fridge freezer filled with RWA and wrapped in mass loaded vinyl. Also the floor had two layers of mass loaded vinyl too. Jeez I went a bit over board ey! Ha ha.

For a small tent a 5" rvk or ruck will do. I have a loft veg tent which is 4x4x5 with sloped roof, running a 600w mh and a 5" ruck with an 8" rhino filter I never turned it above two of five speed settings on a variac speed controller. Mind you I did run a 315 cmh in summer months but could still have speed controller set on one.
 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Thanks man. It varies plant to plant, but a general pattern is leave it alone for a few weeks, then when there's 6 or 7 inter nodes, I'll do the one supercrop 3 or 4 internodes up, and tie the tip to the plant with dental floss, so that the top is below the bottom/first inter node of main stem. The main stem will form a kind of "S". Then the side shoots will shoot out like this. (The main stem is the slightly thicker/longer one to the right. Strain: sativa dominant Blackjack):
View attachment 4140674
Then I'll let then growout. When the side shoots have grown out and and it's a layer of leaves, I'll strip it to it's foundation, like this(strain:Sunset Sherbet):
View attachment 4140681
Now, it's like you have 20 seedlings on sticks. This is a good time to feed the shoot directly with foliar feed. The goal is to activate every shoot, all the way to the first node on the first shoot, what I call the Alpha Larf :D We wont have larf, cuz it'll be activated like this(strain: Chocolate Hashberry):
View attachment 4140683
You see, we're starting to form a muscular plant. No growth sites have been removed, so they keep multiplying. This process kind of repeats. The period after the first defoliation, I call the Lush, so now you're in your first Lush. All the 20 or so growth tips should grow out fairly evenly, so it'll be bushing up like this. From here to flower it's mainly just lst/defoliation. Bending down stalks lightly, trimming away fan leaves blocking undergrowth(like that beautiful one in the middle), and, when it's a block of bust, stripping it to it's foundation and baby feeding it. As tops grow taller than the bush, I don't top them, just clip all the top leaves. This will slow the top growth and open up what's underneath, but will keep the shoot active.. Strain:Blackberry Kush):
View attachment 4140692
The Final Lush, will coincide with the onset of flower, when you strip it down and have a network of seedlings on sticks filling the space you'd like to flower... All kinds of methods, but this works well for me, and will give you the muscle hamster plants that look like budsicles sticking out of the ground you are looking for :P
Nicely done there. Ha it' more exciting every post I read. I'l probably have to re-read all these again to make sure I'm in the right paths lol but it' all good.
 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Yeah I like rockwool slab, in my old room I ripped up the floor and filled the cavity with RWA 90 I think it was. I also covered the slabs with bin liners (for dust purposes) and had them screwed to the back of the door. Its good for airflow sound but not so good for fan hum. Which is a bastard with cheapo fan speed controllers.
I also increased the mass of the wall by adding a layer of sound board with a layer of green glue and more sound board. Plus my fan was in a box the size of a fridge freezer filled with RWA and wrapped in mass loaded vinyl. Also the floor had two layers of mass loaded vinyl too. Jeez I went a bit over board ey! Ha ha.

For a small tent a 5" rvk or ruck will do. I have a loft veg tent which is 4x4x5 with sloped roof, running a 600w mh and a 5" ruck with an 8" rhino filter I never turned it above two of five speed settings on a variac speed controller. Mind you I did run a 315 cmh in summer months but could still have speed controller set on one.
So what would you say is less noisier the ruck or rvk I'm buying one next week so need.advice. I'm buying my 250w mh and 250w hps tomorrow pay day. And running my cfl' first. But ill swap when I'm comfortable lol. But I want the 250w's here waiting for when I do.
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
It looks strange. I looked at a video just now, s how come 4k colours varies in so many lights, one was HLG something, one was a Lumii t5 and another was so.ething else but all 4 had different visual spectrums. I though 4000k was 4000k no matter how it' produced the visual would be the same or am I totally off?
I can only guess that the gases used in t5 are different to HID lighting and again white LEDs use a different method to get the colour temp they want, by using a phosphor coating. There are variations from one white LED to another too. But the spectrum on white LED is more full than that of t5 for example. Also they have a cri rating which is very high in white LEDs and low on t5s.
CRI is a rating used to signify how close a light source makes an object look to how it should under natural lighting.


Im no spectrum expert though, but I imagine all those things play a part.

 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Yeah true. I haven' a bloody clue if honest. All this is just mind baffling and how people figure this stuff out is beyond me Lol. Botanists at their best.
 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
Sorry missed this post.

There really are no truly silent fans. Avoid cheap ones. Go bigger than needed and use a variable transformer to turn it down, use acoustic ducting and an over sized filter. That's about the best way to go quiet. Ruck and RKV are good brands, nothing fancy but swiss bearings and German engineering. There are various silent fans, but non are silent. I used to use an airforce2 silent fan, its a true work horse but not really much quieter than my rucks. There are TD silent fans which I hear good things about. Mixed airflow fans are supposed to be quieter but they don't handle long ducts as well, so it depends on what your duct length and how many bends there will be.

You can box fans in and cut noise down more, its probably just as effective as some of these fancy fans that are built into a silencer, all the silencer is is a layer of sound muffling foam in a big metal tube.
There is a thread on here called "quiet the neighbours can hear you" its got some good practical tips, but there are certain frequencies that are hard to truly stop and fans are in that low frequency. Hence why its best to go big with everything and turn down the speed. The bigger the duct the less the airflow noise, the bigger the filter the less resistance and strain on your fan, also the filter last longer.

:bigjoint:

So for my setup in an 80x80x160 what rvk fan size, filter and ducting would you use? I'l look on amazon/eBay for acoustic ones. But what size fan and filter ? There' a hydroponics shop not far from me so I can buy them there I hope. Next week.
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
So for my setup in an 80x80x160 what rvk fan size, filter and ducting would you use? I'l look on amazon/eBay for acoustic ones. But what size fan and filter ? There' a hydroponics shop not far from me so I can buy them there I hope. Next week.
5 inch or 6 inch fan. 6" filter, don't think you would fit an 8" in there.
I would go for 6" over 5 on the fan just so you can really turn it down and keep it lower volume
 

EvansInUK

Well-Known Member
5 inch or 6 inch fan. 6" filter, don't think you would fit an 8" in there.
I would go for 6" over 5 on the fan just so you can really turn it down and keep it lower volume
Ok thanks. I appreciate the advice. I will have a look tomorrow in a local hydroponic store not far from me. Just hope they sell an RVK that was pretty quiet to be fair. What fan speed controller would you recommend I seen one earlier but can' remember the dam name now. Zypher or zypher or something. But that was a second name not the brand name.


Ok I'm.stuck for an option now, should I try to force an 84.5cm reflector in my 80cm tent or should I just buy a bigger tent. I fancy this reflector but don' know if I should push it.into my tent due to space as my filter and fan would take up a lot of space too.

I was thinking maybe using a Lumii T5 2ft 4 tubes light under my stairs now for noise and buying a tent to 90x90x200cm for upstairs and using 250w mh and hps then move up to a 315w cmh. But 6" fan and 6" filter would remain the same for this setup.
 
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