Help With Leaf Issues (Please!)

Hey all, I'm about five and a half weeks into flower, and over the last week, a handful of plants have been developing leaf issues.

I read the amazing, "Guide to Nutrient Deficiency or Toxicity," by @nick17gar (thanks so much for posting it) and I feel like my plants might be low in phosphorus. Different plants of different strains seemingly have the same issue, but with my lack of experience, I buried my head in the sand until now, when thing are worse.

I top-dressed them about two weeks ago with some Gaia Green Power Bloom 2-8-4, some kelp meal and a bit of earthworm castings, which is the same thing I did just before they started to flower.

Does this seem like a phosphorus issue to you? I can get some 0-9-0 bat guano locally (right here), and was thinking of side-dressing with 3 TBSP in each 3-gallon pot, spreading out the tablespoons around the edges and burying them in a little. Would this help me go in the right direction? What if I top-dress again in addition to the guano?

Check out the pics, 4 or 5 plants (of 14) look exactly the same. Thanks in advance for your help!



Fwiw, my plants in general are in better shape than in my first grow. My Instagram page only gets the good pics, lol! I'm interested in fixing this, if possible, but much more interested in learning. Cheers and thanks again.

Post some of the rest of the plant? Got some clawing and the leaves in the background look pretty dark so you may just be experiencing lockout from too much N.
Looks like it could be a combo of a few things to me which would reinforce lockout.

GiovanniJones said:

Hey all, I'm about five and a half weeks into flower, and over the last week, a handful of plants have been developing leaf issues.

I read the amazing, "Guide to Nutrient Deficiency or Toxicity," by @nick17gar (thanks so much for posting it) and I feel like my plants might be low in phosphorus. Different plants of different strains seemingly have the same issue, but with my lack of experience, I buried my head in the sand until now, when thing are worse.

I top-dressed them about two weeks ago with some Gaia Green Power Bloom 2-8-4, some kelp meal and a bit of earthworm castings, which is the same thing I did just before they started to flower.

Does this seem like a phosphorus issue to you? I can get some 0-9-0 bat guano locally (right here), and was thinking of side-dressing with 3 TBSP in each 3-gallon pot, spreading out the tablespoons around the edges and burying them in a little. Would this help me go in the right direction? What if I top-dress again in addition to the guano?

Check out the pics, 4 or 5 plants (of 14) look exactly the same. Thanks in advance for your help!

View attachment 4484611 View attachment 4484610

Fwiw, my plants in general are in better shape than in my first grow. My Instagram page only gets the good pics, lol! I'm interested in fixing this, if possible, but much more interested in learning. Cheers and thanks again.

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So it looks pretty clear your plants are starved for water and nutrients, possibly even root space. Based on your recipe of nutrients I would have to suggest you are using a bit too much fertilizer and at a slight imbalance. Fine tuning organic fertilizer mixes can be a daunting task, even for the experienced grower.
My assumption of what may be happening, is salt toxicity. The salt build up is making it difficult for your plant to take up water...that causes a deficiency in Magnesium...which in turn makes it impossible for your plant to mobilize the nutrients available. When creating your fertilizer recipe, make sure to take the Maximum application of one nutrient as your Max application for all combined (example... you are using organic fertilizers and each one suggests a half cup per 5 gallons soil, but you have four different fertilizers...1/8 cup per fertilizer equals a half cup total). pH can dip severely with excess salts causing even more imbalance. If I was going to try and save these plants I would suggest a larger root zone with a balanced recipe that isn’t too strong, (less is always best when it come nutrients), make sure the pH of both your soil and water source are a spot on 6.2-6.8, transplant and water with either distilled or purified water until you get at least 50% runoff dripping out the bottom of your pots. Then continue to always achieve at least 10% runoff every time you water thereafter.
With the pH dialed in, ample root space, and a nice lean recipe of fertilizers you should be on cruise control! Good luck and I hope this helps!

Shoanxi said:

Good luck and I hope this helps!

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Thanks for the thoughtful response, I'll definitely be taking your advice. I've never measured water or soil pH, but when I research what I'd need to purchase in order to do this, things seem to get confusing. What do you use to measure pH?

GiovanniJones said:

Thanks for the thoughtful response, I'll definitely be taking your advice. I've never measured water or soil pH, but when I research what I'd need to purchase in order to do this, things seem to get confusing. What do you use to measure pH?

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A PH pen. If you can, I would spend a little bit of money to get a better unit rather one of the cheaper ones on amazon, but those are better than none if you can’t. I use an apera and I love it. It came with two vials with liquid solution, one at ph 4.0 and one at ph 7.0 for calibration, and will pop up with an alert if you go too long without calibration. I generally calibrate once weekly, but its rarely off at all and if it is, its usually by just 0.1. I have one of the cheaper Apera pens, I paid ~$60 for it, and it is always right on par with what my buddy’s $200 Hanna unit shows. The only complaint I have about my Apera is that it only measures one decimal space out, but I knew that before purchasing. The model I have is the “Apera PH20”

They look over fed to me. I never felt like I could dial in a organic grow so I'm a soil-less guy.

70's natureboy said:

They look over fed to me. I never felt like I could dial in a organic grow so I'm a soil-less guy.

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Ok, thanks. There seems to be a common theme here! I started with a pretty hot soil and then added too many organic amendments during flower. I spoke to someone recently who only uses Gaia Green All-Purpose Fertilizer for veg and Power Bloom for Flower. He uses them according to package directions with just ProMix HP soil and the his plants are pretty amazing looking, so I might go that route next round.

GiovanniJones said:

Thanks for the thoughtful response, I'll definitely be taking your advice. I've never measured water or soil pH, but when I research what I'd need to purchase in order to do this, things seem to get confusing. What do you use to measure pH?

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I don’t prefer probes as they prove to be unreliable a lot of the time. I use General Hydroponics pH test drops for my water source and then for testing the runoff that comes out the bottom of the pot! Capsule soil testing can be inaccurate on the small scale but is still the preferred method of Universities for small batches. If you want professional confirmation your soil is dialed in you can submit your soil sample to CSU, however this is Largely unnecessary because most soil mixes have a set performance and have been buffered. Peat moss and Coco from your local discount store is garbage and unbuffered, avoid at all costs. Most soils like fox farms are buffered a little bit with dolomitic lime and oyster shells or what not, so the pH of these is usually around 5.5. That’s still too low so I use those as an additive to my better buffered professional growers mix set at a pH of 7! I mix those two soils 3 parts pro mix to one part fox farm The pro growers mix usually contains Micorrizae and tests almost neutral. So the final pH of the mix will be 6.2-6.5. Add a lean organic complex of every essential nutrient to this mix (I do have a specific mix I make everytime). Make sure you are keeping you organic fertilizer amounts in check like I explained before. Also pay attention to the percentages of your additives (doesn’t make sense to have a Nitrogen at 12-0-0 and a phosphorus at 0-0.5-0, because the concentration of each percentage isn’t equal and will create an imbalance). Don’t forget your most important Macros Magnesium and Calcium found in Dolomitic lime and Gypsum (these are also your long term soil buffers that assure good circulation of nutrients within the plant tissues) your percentage of Magnesium to Calcium should be at a 1:3 ratio (example 12% Mag : 36% calcium. Usually mixing equal parts lime and gypsum achieves this! When I say go lean on Nutrients I cannot stress it enough. By the time you add all these separate ingredients it’s very easy to over do it Especially with lime, gypsum, and Nitrogen. It’s not necessarily the amount of fertilizers you are adding, and more to do with having that pH dialed in with a good blend of Nutrients! Finally I sporadically test my runoff with the pH drops to make sure my soil hasn’t limed or soured! That a lot of info, hope it helps and Happy growing!

GiovanniJones said:

Ok, thanks. There seems to be a common theme here! I started with a pretty hot soil and then added too many organic amendments during flower. I spoke to someone recently who only uses Gaia Green All-Purpose Fertilizer for veg and Power Bloom for Flower. He uses them according to package directions with just ProMix HP soil and the his plants are pretty amazing looking, so I might go that route next round.

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Yes Pro mix High porosity is what I mix with fox farm for that perfect pH!!!

iShatterBladderz said:

A PH pen. If you can, I would spend a little bit of money to get a better unit rather one of the cheaper ones on amazon, but those are better than none if you can’t. I use an apera and I love it. It came with two vials with liquid solution, one at ph 4.0 and one at ph 7.0 for calibration, and will pop up with an alert if you go too long without calibration. I generally calibrate once weekly, but its rarely off at all and if it is, its usually by just 0.1. I have one of the cheaper Apera pens, I paid ~$60 for it, and it is always right on par with what my buddy’s $200 Hanna unit shows. The only complaint I have about my Apera is that it only measures one decimal space out, but I knew that before purchasing. The model I have is the “Apera PH20”

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Apara huh, I might try one. Thanks for the suggestion!

Shoanxi said:

... I mix those two soils 3 parts pro mix to one part fox farm ... Don’t forget your most important Macros Magnesium and Calcium found in Dolomitic lime and Gypsum.

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Thank you, sir, for all the help! Do you use Fox Farm's Happy Frog or Ocean Forest? I may try your 3:1 soil mix. How much Dolomitic Lime and Oyster Shell Flour (or gypsum) should I initially add in, per gallon, if any at all? Once it's mixed into the soil initially, does any more have to be added throughout the grow, because it's slow-release?

At which points of the grow do you feel that your 3:1 soil mix needs nutrients or amendments? I'm thinking of using Gaia Green's 4-4-4 during veg and 2-8-4 during flower, because someone has done all the thinking to get the mixes right for us in those products. Am I thinking right here? Thanks.

Shoanxi said:

Apara huh, I might try one. Thanks for the suggestion!

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P.S. a pH pen if it’s reliable is amazing, however really meant for constant observation of nutrient reservoirs. I find them a bit exspensive for a hobby soil farmer.

Shoanxi said:

Apara huh, I might try one. Thanks for the suggestion!

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Bluelab & Hanna also make great units, but they’re usually a little pricier.

GiovanniJones said:

Thank you, sir, for all the help! Do you use Fox Farm's Happy Frog or Ocean Forest? I may try your 3:1 soil mix. How much Dolomitic Lime and Oyster Shell Flour (or gypsum) should I initially add in, per gallon, if any at all? Once it's mixed into the soil initially, does any more have to be added throughout the grow, because it's slow-release?

At which points of the grow do you feel that your 3:1 soil mix needs nutrients or amendments? I'm thinking of using Gaia Green's 4-4-4 during veg and 2-8-4 during flower, because someone has done all the thinking to get the mixes right for us in those products. Am I thinking right here? Thanks.

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You are on the right track! You are now asking for some of my secrets haha! Ocean forest compliments my 8 other organic fertilizers the best! Most brands “Mother Earth” concentrate their fertilizers equally so that you don’t make the mistake of too much this too much that. So if it asks for a half cup per 5 gallons, I know that’s the limit on salts the brand has predetermined. I divide all my organic fertilizers, with similar percentages, including the lime and gypsum, into that half cup!
Cool tip #1 Now you have your base soil! Depending on what phase of growth you are planting into (Germination, Veg, bloom) you can divide your base soil in half by adding equal parts plain soil, boom early veg mix! Use your base soil mix as a light additive to plain soil and viola! Germination mix
Tip#2 Your soil mix will feed your plants the whole way through provided your mix contains both slower and quicker release nutrients (your brand should suffice), and everytime you transplant you use fresh mix! However I do go further and liquid supplement with a light cocktail as well, that includes Mag Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, and humid acids. This cocktail will be what tips the balance of your mix in the veg or bloom direction, (example...tiger bloom + macros and carbohydrates during bloom and grow big + macros no carbs during veg) The trick however is to make sure you are using an extremely light cocktail!! The bottle calls for 4 teaspoons per Gallon, but you are going to use a max of 1 teaspoon total (1/2 tsp grow big, 1/4 teaspoon Mag sulphate, 1/4 tsp k sulphate). I personally use tap water at a stable mineralized pH of 8 to mix my cocktails to an exact 6.5 without adding pH up, and purified or distilled to flush. If you are stuck with high pH tap to flush with, a couple drops of cider vinegar will lower the pH to 6.5 while adding micros! Remember the nutrients are already in the soil and you are only trying to tip the balance of veg and bloom.

Shoanxi said:

You are on the right track! You are now asking for some of my secrets haha! Ocean forest compliments my 8 other organic fertilizers the best! Most brands “Mother Earth” concentrate their fertilizers equally so that you don’t make the mistake of too much this too much that. So if it asks for a half cup per 5 gallons, I know that’s the limit on salts the brand has predetermined. I divide all my organic fertilizers, with similar percentages, including the lime and gypsum, into that half cup!
Cool tip #1 Now you have your base soil! Depending on what phase of growth you are planting into (Germination, Veg, bloom) you can divide your base soil in half by adding equal parts plain soil, boom early veg mix! Use your base soil mix as a light additive to plain soil and viola! Germination mix
Tip#2 Your soil mix will feed your plants the whole way through provided your mix contains both slower and quicker release nutrients (your brand should suffice), and everytime you transplant you use fresh mix! However I do go further and liquid supplement with a light cocktail as well, that includes Mag Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, and humid acids. This cocktail will be what tips the balance of your mix in the veg or bloom direction, (example...tiger bloom + macros and carbohydrates during bloom and grow big + macros no carbs during veg) The trick however is to make sure you are using an extremely light cocktail!! The bottle calls for 4 teaspoons per Gallon, but you are going to use a max of 1 teaspoon total (1/2 tsp grow big, 1/4 teaspoon Mag sulphate, 1/4 tsp k sulphate). I personally use tap water at a stable mineralized pH of 8 to mix my cocktails to an exact 6.5 without adding pH up, and purified or distilled to flush. If you are stuck with high pH tap to flush with, a couple drops of cider vinegar will lower the pH to 6.5 while adding micros! Remember the nutrients are already in the soil and you are only trying to tip the balance of veg and bloom.

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I would like to apologize for a slight discrepancy in the amount of Lime and Gypsum to use! You are adding it Only for long term pH stability, and macros! You are Not adding it to alter pH! I have never had to add more than half a Tablespoon of each to 5 gallons soil mix and do Not recommend exceeding 1 Tbls. of each per 5 gallons soil mix or lime up will occur over time!! Happy Growing!!

Any deficiency those plants might have is due to overfeeding not underfeeding. Adding more of anything isn't going to fix those plants. Plain water is all they need at this point. Those plants are pretty far gone. I'd start some more ASAP.

"The overfeeding of any plant food can cause nutrient deficiencies."

Good luck.

xtsho said:

Any deficiency those plants might have is due to overfeeding not underfeeding. Adding more of anything isn't going to fix those plants. Plain water is all they need at this point. Those plants are pretty far gone. I'd start some more ASAP.

"The overfeeding of any plant food can cause nutrient deficiencies."

Good luck.

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Got the message loud and clear! Thanks.

xtsho said:

Any deficiency those plants might have is due to overfeeding not underfeeding. Adding more of anything isn't going to fix those plants. Plain water is all they need at this point. Those plants are pretty far gone. I'd start some more ASAP.

"The overfeeding of any plant food can cause nutrient deficiencies."

Good luck.

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Thanks. I'm a few weeks away from harvest and a bunch of the plants in the room still look good, so I'm going to start a new grow in a month or so. But yeah, a few are pretty far gone unfortunately. Nothing but water going forward!

Shoanxi said:

I would like to apologize for a slight discrepancy in the amount of Lime and Gypsum to use! You are adding it Only for long term pH stability, and macros! You are Not adding it to alter pH! I have never had to add more than half a Tablespoon of each to 5 gallons soil mix and do Not recommend exceeding 1 Tbls. of each per 5 gallons soil mix or lime up will occur over time!! Happy Growing!!

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Hi Shoanxi, you've really gone out of your way to give a lot of info, thanks!!

give them water and only water. phed between 6.7 and 7.0. the water will flush some of the extra nutrients