Help please...Seedlings have stopped growing

whitebb2727 said:

Sure it's the moisture.

I'm saying the spectrum has zero to do with it.

That link was for beans and actually states blue would open the stomata more. That would be wanted. The stomata opening or not wouldn't cause burn.

It has zero to due with spectrum. 5,000k is actually about perfect for growing. Has plenty or red, blue and even some green.

The only wavelenght of light that will burn the plant is uv or ir.

Click to expand...

Did you read the link to the article i posted?
I hit google for you.
It clearly states blue light opens plant stomata more.
Its just fuel for the fire.

As ive said we can agree to disagree.
You are entitled to your own opinion, and so am I.
You asked me to show you some evidence. I gave it to you.
So just accept we differ in opinion and leave it there.



PS.
This back and forth is insane.
We both agree its an overwatering issue.
So lets leave it there.

Tim1987 said:

Did you read the link to the article i posted?
I hit google for you.
It clearly states blue light opens plant stomata more.
Its just fuel for the fire.

As ive said we can agree to disagree.
You are entitled to your own opinion, and so am I.
You asked me to show you some evidence. I gave it to you.
So just accept we differ in opinion and leave it there.



PS.
This back and forth is insane.
We both agree its an overwatering issue.
So lets leave it there.

Click to expand...

Yes I did read.

Now you try to back peddle.

I say again as I did originally. Spectrum does not cause burn unless ir or uv.

Next problem with what you said. Since it's over watered you want the stomata open. They close to conserve water. Why conserve water when they are drowning?


Where's that leave us? I don't know. Either cite a article that says spectrum and not distance burns plants or move on.

Tim1987 said:

Yeah. I think transplanting into something smaller is a good idea.
They didnt need that nutrient either. Wont do them any good at all.
I think even use the seedling mix. But add some perlite, or something similar. More aeration is definitely needed.
Water only.
Leave any rich soil, or nutrition for later, when they've recovered and need a bigger pot.

24'C is pretty good. Dropping to about 20 during lights off is generally a good idea too.

Imo that 5000k lighting is a bad spectrum for seedlings. Intense sun is between 5-7000k in mid summer.
Seedlings like something more red. Something gentle. 5000k is too intense for a seedling.
Something around 2800k to 3500k would be a lot better. You will need more light too. But its the spectrum right now thats a problem.

The large pot and wet soil isnt helping at all either.

Im gonna go with wet soil, and wrong light spectrum, thats the major cause of what you're experiencing.

Good luck OP

Click to expand...

Here is what you said. That 5000-7000 was wrong and that 2800-3500 was needed.

That goes against every cannabis grow article and thread there is. You want 5000-6500 for veg, which includes seedlings and 2700-3000 for flowering because it mimics fall.

You are wrong. The 5000k spectrum being used is perfect.

whitebb2727 said:

Yes I did read.

Now you try to back peddle.

I say again as I did originally. Spectrum does not cause burn unless ir or uv.

Next problem with what you said. Since it's over watered you want the stomata open. They close to conserve water. Why conserve water when they are drowning?


Where's that leave us? I don't know. Either cite a article that says spectrum and not distance burns plants or move on.

Here is what you said. That 5000-7000 was wrong and that 2800-3500 was needed.

That goes against every cannabis grow article and thread there is. You want 5000-6500 for veg, which includes seedlings and 2700-3000 for flowering because it mimics fall.

You are wrong. The 5000k spectrum being used is perfect.

Click to expand...

I encourage you to read this. Especially the functions of plant stomata.
To say blue light doesn't effect plant stomata differently is wrong. I believe I have shown you evidence to support the claim.
To say stomata isn't a necessary process of photosynthesis is fundamentally wrong.

Would you not agree drowning roots don't drink water?
Would you not agree that low humidity encourages stomata to close?
Would you not agree that the combination of suffocating roots, low humidity, and more open stomata would have a negative effect on plant growth?

To say spectrum doesn't matter is like saying we could grow killer bud with any light, as long as there's enough power.

Your claims are just false.
Sorry to disagree.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoma

Tim1987 said:

I encourage you to read this. Especially the functions of plant stomata.
To say blue light doesn't effect plant stomata differently is wrong. I believe I have shown you evidence to support the claim.
To say stomata isn't a necessary process of photosynthesis is fundamentally wrong.

Would you not agree drowning roots don't drink water?
Would you not agree that low humidity encourages stomata to close?
Would you not agree that the combination of suffocating roots, low humidity, and more open stomata would have a negative effect on plant growth?

To say spectrum doesn't matter is like saying we could grow killer bud with any light, as long as there's enough power.

Your claims are just false.
Sorry to disagree.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoma

Click to expand...

Get off it. I never said all that. Just called you on the bs part of 5000k burning and being wrong.

I proved you wrong.

I never said that the stomata didn't make a difference.

I know what it does. That's why I said the blue light helps. It opens the stomata. You want that.

Why would you want closed stomata to conserve water when it's soaked? You don't.

You said 5000k was wrong for seedlings and burned the plant. Wrong.

Maybe read what you post. Open stomata, which blue light opens more helps rid excess water.

whitebb2727 said:

Get off it. I never said all that. Just called you on the bs part of 5000k burning and being wrong.

I proved you wrong.

I never said that the stomata didn't make a difference.

I know what it does. That's why I said the blue light helps. It opens the stomata. You want that.

Why would you want closed stomata to conserve water when it's soaked? You don't.

You said 5000k was wrong for seedlings and burned the plant. Wrong.

Click to expand...

30% humidity dude.
More transpiration.
More open stomata. (ive shown evidence to support this)
Less water uptake, from suffocating roots.

Stop putting words in my mouth.
I never once said it "burns plants"

Dehydrate. Yes.
Burn. No.

I didnt even type the word "dehydrate"

Your turn to site some material to prove otherwise.
Preferably not from Grow Weed Easy either.
Produce something scientific. Or leave me alone.

Tim1987 said:

Imo that 5000k lighting is a bad spectrum for seedlings. Intense sun is between 5-7000k in mid summer.
Seedlings like something more red. Something gentle. 5000k is too intense for a seedling.
Something around 2800k to 3500k would be a lot better. You will need more light too. But its the spectrum right now thats a problem.

Click to expand...

Tim1987 said:

30% humidity dude.
More transpiration.
More open stomata. (ive shown evidence to support this)
Less water uptake, from suffocating roots.

Stop putting words in my mouth.
I never once said it "burns plants"

Dehydrate. Yes.
Burn. No.

I didnt even type the word "dehydrate"

Your turn to site some material to prove otherwise.
Preferably not from Grow Weed Easy either.
Produce something scientific. Or leave me alone.

Click to expand...

Your exact words. You compared it to intense sun and said it was the wrong spectrum.

38 humidity isn't low enough to hurt. They are also over watered.

The thing about the spectrum you claimed is wrong.

That little ass light isn't effecting the stomata that much. You are grasping at straws.

5000k is just fine and almost perfect for seedlings. Period.

And no. T5 is anywhere between 2700 and 10,000k. Metal hide is sometimes as high as 10,000k but definitely bluer and would be worse than that little light.

whitebb2727 said:

Yes you did

Click to expand...

Wheres the word "burn" buddy?

Show me your evidence to support your claims that spectrum doest have a varying effect on plants.

Sure they photosynthesize. I never said otherwise.

whitebb2727 said:

Your exact words. You compared it to intense sun and said it was the wrong spectrum.

38 humidity isn't low enough to hurt. They are also over watered.

The thing about the spectrum you claimed is wrong.

That little ass light isn't effecting the stomata that much. You are grasping at straws.

5000k is just fine and almost perfect for seedlings. Period.

Click to expand...

You are like a seagull on a chip.

Show me scientific proof.

Or stfu.

Here's yet another article showing the relationship between light intensity, and wavelength.
I didn't say burn. I said intensity.

Show me your evidence to support your claim, or leave me alone.

http://cse.ssl.berkeley.edu/SegwayEd/lessons/light/measure3.html

Tim1987 said:

Here's yet another article showing the relationship between light intensity, and wavelength.
I didn't say burn. I said intensity.

Show me your evidence to support your claim, or leave me alone.

http://cse.ssl.berkeley.edu/SegwayEd/lessons/light/measure3.html

Click to expand...

Intensity is from distance not from spectrum.

Tim1987 said:

Here's yet another article showing the relationship between light intensity, and wavelength.
I didn't say burn. I said intensity.

Show me your evidence to support your claim, or leave me alone.

http://cse.ssl.berkeley.edu/SegwayEd/lessons/light/measure3.html

Click to expand...

That's means nothing in this situation.

You said the spectrum was wrong and it was more intense. It's not. You change the intensity by raising the light.

Bottom line is that the spectrum has zero to do with this problem.

You don't even know the proper Kelvin for t5 or metal halide.

You recommend flowering kelvins for seedlings.

Huff and puff and back peddle all you want. You are wrong about the spectrum being part of the problem or wrong for the seedling.

Period.

whitebb2727 said:

Intensity is from distance not from spectrum.



That's means nothing in this situation.

You said the spectrum was wrong and it was more intense. It's not. You change the intensity by raising the light.

Bottom line is that the spectrum has zero to do with this problem.

You don't even know the proper Kelvin for t5 or metal halide.

You recommend flowering kelvins for seedlings.

Huff and puff and back peddle all you want. You are wrong about the spectrum being part of the problem or wrong for the seedling.

Period.

Click to expand...

Your all words buddy.
Show me scientific proof.
Or leave me alone.

Tim1987 said:

Your all words buddy.
Show me scientific proof.
Or leave me alone.

Click to expand...

You made the claim and didn't back shit up. You post some shit about beans and then wavelengths. Neither apply. The one about the beans the op is actually doing right.

Lol. Trying to get the man to change lights for nothing.

You compare it to the sun and call it too intense. What else would that mean.

Point is the 5,000k has nothing to do with the problem.

Keep grasping at straws.

I won't drop it. You will end up causing someone to buy another light for no reason.

whitebb2727 said:

You made the claim and didn't back shit up. You post some shit about beans and then wavelengths. Neither apply. The one about the beans the op is actually doing right.

Lol. Trying to get the man to change lights for nothing.

You compare it to the sun and call it too intense. What else would that mean.

Point is the 5,000k has nothing to do with the problem.

Keep grasping at straws.

Click to expand...

Dude.
Putting words in my mouth again.
I typed "if" OP has a different light it may help.

You want some evidence to show wavelength (electromagnetic spectrum) includes light as well?
Its all radiation dude.

Show me your evidence. I showed you mine. Now you show me yours.

Or leave me alone.

Tim1987 said:

Dude.
Putting words in my mouth again.
I typed "if" OP has a different light it may help.

You want some evidence to show wavelength (electromagnetic spectrum) includes light as well?
Its all radiation dude.

Show me your evidence. I showed you mine. Now you show me yours.

Or leave me alone.

Click to expand...

Nope. A different light would not help.

whitebb2727 said:

Nope. A different light would not help.

Click to expand...

Evidence.
Show me.
Stop being a fool.
Support your argument.

Tim1987 said:

Dude.
Putting words in my mouth again.
I typed "if" OP has a different light it may help.

You want some evidence to show wavelength (electromagnetic spectrum) includes light as well?
Its all radiation dude.

Show me your evidence. I showed you mine. Now you show me yours.

Or leave me alone.

Click to expand...

No shit light is a wavelength. Only uv or ir would make that much of a difference.

You've shown nothing.

Tim1987 said:

Evidence.
Show me.
Stop being a fool.
Support your argument.

Click to expand...

I don't have to. You made the claim. It's how it works.

The light made no difference in this problem.

You clearly know jack shit. You are suggesting flowering spectrum for seedlings.

Here. Read. You want the stomata open. As the plant transpires it forms water vapor and actually raises humidity.

https://www.polygongroup.com/en-US/blog/how-humidity-affects-the-growth-of-plants/

It's why the humidity goes up after you water.

Heat can cause the stomata to close to conserve water. Basically suffocating because of lack of gas exchange.

If anything the blue light is helping by opening the stomata. We know blue light does that because of your bean link.

Now I say again. The light spectrum didn't hurt and actually may be helping.

Since it's holding water we know it's not processing that water. Heat closed down the stomata.

Cool the temps some and the stomata opens and gases exchanges releasing moiture into the air then allowing the roots to uptake the water in the soil.

Keith Tyrion said:

Hi All

My seedlings have stopped growing after two weeks, are turning pale green and bending over. I'd be very grateful for any advice as to why they aren't flourishing.

1) PICTURE OF PLANT Below
2) Growing indoors - 100w LED at 30cm hang height.
3) Watering schedule - Approx every 3-4 days.
4) Growing Medium - Osmocote Seed Raising/Cutting Mix
5) What stage of growth - 2 weeks

Temps and Humidity are in one of the attached photos..

Many thanks for your help!

KeithView attachment 4155066 View attachment 4155067

Click to expand...

ABSULUTLY over watering
Keep it dry at all then less water than you think

whitebb2727 said:

No shit light is a wavelength. Only uv or ir would make that much of a difference.

You've shown nothing.

I don't have to. You made the claim. It's how it works.

The light made no difference in this problem.

You clearly know jack shit. You are suggesting flowering spectrum for seedlings.

Here. Read. You want the stomata open. As the plant transpires it forms water vapor and actually raises humidity.

https://www.polygongroup.com/en-US/blog/how-humidity-affects-the-growth-of-plants/

It's why the humidity goes up after you water.

Heat can cause the stomata to close to conserve water. Basically suffocating because of lack of gas exchange.

If anything the blue light is helping by opening the stomata. We know blue light does that because of your bean link.

Now I say again. The light spectrum didn't hurt and actually may be helping.

Click to expand...

You dont believe from what ive shown that blue light makes the stomata open more?
You dont believe stomata effect transpiration?
You dont believe transpiration effects translocation?
You dont believe suffocating roots restrict osmosis, and translocation?
You dont believe low humidy causes higher transpiration?
You dont believe these things makes a plant thirsty?
You dont believe all these things would have a relationship between each other?

You still haven't shown me any evidence to show otherwise.

Put up or shut up.

You literally are about to be the first person i ignore..

All i stated was spectrum can have an added affect. I never said it was the cause. Do some reading about vipar blurples. The blue in them is notorious for causing issues.

I also stated they were stretching. Do you not believe in light quality?

We both agree that the major cause is overwatering. Like EVERYONE here has said.

Show me your evidence, or leave me TF alone.

Tim1987 said:

You dont believe from what ive shown that blue light makes the stomata open more?
You dont believe stomata effect transpiration?
You dont believe transpiration effects translocation?
You dont believe suffocating roots restrict osmosis, and translocation?
You dont believe low humidy causes higher transpiration?
You dont believe these things makes a plant thirsty?
You dont believe all these things would have a relationship between each other?

You still haven't shown me any evidence to show otherwise.

Put up or shut up.

You literally are about to be the first person i ignore..

All i stated was spectrum can have an added affect. I never said it was the cause.

I also stated they were stretching. Do you not believe in light quality?

We both agree that the major cause is overwatering. Like EVERYONE here has said.

Show me your evidence, or leave me TF alone.

Click to expand...

Just wanna mention what diffrent between HPS and MH lights .
How importat to chande them
by the vegg into flower !?
This is basics blue more efficient for vegg satage .
Better to help people except arguing each other .
Be chill all the time ,it gives you more potential to help and contribute your future success.
I’m as a beginner for yours srry .
Keep make love
Smoke and fly

neved said:

Just wanna mention what diffrent between HPS and MH lights .
How importat to chande them
by the vegg into flower !?
This is basics blue more efficient for vegg satage .
Better to help people except arguing each other .
Be chill all the time ,it gives you more potential to help and contribute your future success.
I’m as a beginner for yours srry .
Keep make love
Smoke and fly

Click to expand...

Sorry neved.
Im done with it too.
Thanks for breaking the ice between us.
Thats my last comment.
I promise.
Take care