HELP NEEDED - Grow Room Design Ideas

sladeofdark

New Member
Hello friends, this is my first post. I just ordered a lot of equipment and still have alot more to get. From what i have read here my budget is pretty handsome for a first timer. ~2,400 dollars. Now i have included a video to show my basement and what i want to know is how i might maximize my space. Some of you are so good at this that all you need is the numbers but im going to go measure everything exactly in a few minutes. The problem i anticipate is height and how to get the highest yield without having to do things that are difficult for a first timer. I am not afraid of LSTing if i need to but i want to make sure i don't mess up b/c i HAVE to be successful enough to at least make my investment worthwhile. So far i have 4 400w HPS on the way and 2 8 bucket systems with hydrotons b/c i am not interested in manually watering them. I am not sure if i made good use of all of the awesome calculators that i found on this site but i just wanted to get into the forums and introduce myself and start some convo with real masters. here is my bucket system and my basement 3d layout i just whipped up in Sketchup(greatest program ever)
8 pack & controller copy.jpg
basement angle 3.jpgbasement.jpgbasement angle 2.jpg

[video=youtube;1sOX5znAGrc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sOX5znAGrc[/video]
 

omx1998

Member
Why did you order it...no grow stores by you? you must have paid a fortune in shipping...ballasts weigh a ton! You need a lot more plans than where to put your buckets. What about all of your climate control? Do you have it divided for veg and flower? what lights are you using for what? You certainly do not need 400w for veg. Are you buying seeds or clones? Do you have a clue what you are getting yourself into?
$2,400 is nothing... I probably have 20K in mine, and it is probably about the same size as yours. How tall is your basement, most of them are 8' which is plenty of room.
You need to do some serious reading and talking to the guys at all of your local grow stores, and stop playing with your Etch-A-Sketch!
 

sladeofdark

New Member
thank you for the reply, i did get really carried away with the 3D program. Well i have been researching and studying for 2 years now, i have a friend who has been at it for several years and he helps me with everything. What i am asking is whay would YOU do with this space and a height of 6 feet 10 inches. All of the questions you asked are in the data i uploaded. And, no, i dont know of any shops in my town but the shipping was not bad at all actually. I still have alot more things to order. Im done reading as ive been doing it for 2 years now and i am ready to start my project.
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
Here's what I would do. Build walls to make 2 flowering chambers, & 1 veg area smaller than flowering chambers. Then you can harvest every 4 to 5 weeks. Look into a flip flop system, but they're kinda pricey. What it does is turn lights off in one room, wait 15 minutes, then turns the other rooms lights on. So 1 set of ballasts can power 2 sets of bulbs. You have 23 1/2 hr. of growing. Plus you only need one set of ballasts so saves there.
Look into CMH bulbs to run on the HPS's.
Ceramic Metal Halide Fact Page
Danielsbongsmilie
 

Budluvin

Member
Hey man, i am a bit of a newb too, but my grow is under way but on a much smaller scale but also hydro, so hear it a few litle suggestions.

Like the last guy said Danielsgb, you need to decide how big your areas are going to be for your lights, i.e square foot to lumens etc and divide the sections up... watch this video... its very cheesy but really informative, i swear buy it to anyone doing a basement build, or for general info :mrgreen::mrgreen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25BTuvs-AE8

takes about 5 mins before he gets into building it. I am using an oxy pot, very similar to the buckets you have an my cupboard is only about 6 ft high as well. I will be using the SCROG technique to keep the height down, however i dont know how practical that will be for your setup with so many plants.

Alternativly just grow em short, either buy a strain of seeds that are known not to be too tall or only veg them for a short time making syre lights are as close as possible without burning so they dont stretch, short and bushy!:leaf: Let me know what you think... good luck!
 

zzyx

Well-Known Member
Here's what I would do. Build walls to make 2 flowering chambers, & 1 veg area smaller than flowering chambers. Then you can harvest every 4 to 5 weeks. Look into a flip flop system, but they're kinda pricey. What it does is turn lights off in one room, wait 15 minutes, then turns the other rooms lights on. So 1 set of ballasts can power 2 sets of bulbs. You have 23 1/2 hr. of growing. Plus you only need one set of ballasts so saves there.
Look into CMH bulbs to run on the HPS's.
Ceramic Metal Halide Fact Page
Danielsbongsmilie
good advice!
some other things; electrical wiring/panels, climate control, smell control, water in and out (sinks are nice.)
 

sladeofdark

New Member
thank you all for the replies. The CAD program i use is actually a 3D program called Google Sketchup, it is the most AWESOME one i have ever tried .. i learned it and made those drawing in a couple hours. Anyway. on the CMH lights, what would i use them for Veg or Flower? i have only 6' 10" from floor to celing and i want to maximize my yield. i have TONS of horizontal space and to flower rooms and one veg room will be no problem at all. believe it or not you guys are helping me alot b/c i know just about what approach i want to take now. please keep the advice coming!
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
thank you all for the replies. The CAD program i use is actually a 3D program called Google Sketchup, it is the most AWESOME one i have ever tried .. i learned it and made those drawing in a couple hours. Anyway. on the CMH lights, what would i use them for Veg or Flower? i have only 6' 10" from floor to ceiling and i want to maximize my yield. i have TONS of horizontal space and to flower rooms and one veg room will be no problem at all. believe it or not you guys are helping me alot b/c i know just about what approach i want to take now. please keep the advice coming!
That's the great part of CMH's they are good for both veg & flower. Biggest is 400W but I would use 2 or 3 vs. a 1000W.
6'10" is enough room so I wouldn't worry about that. Pocket doors work good for entry too when building walls in grow rooms.
Here's the spectrum chart for a CMH.
Daniels:weed:
View attachment 1449845.
 

sladeofdark

New Member
THANK YOU THANK YOU! SO MUCH! All of you.. Danielsgb thank you so much for not being a dick like the first guy who replied ot my thread.. i have almost got my grow room design down perfect just from you alls replies. my friend at the grow shop swears by HPS lights b/c he says the plants just "like them more" but i am interested in the most hightech , self maintaining system that is the most efficient and will produce the highest yield for my space. im going to look into pocket doors (whatever those are). please tell me more because my purchases are getting narrower each time you guys reply here b/c i am seeing what approach is best for me. It looks like an aeropnoic SOG system is going to be best for me and the concerns i had for the light bill are dwindling b/c it appears that since i am not growing 6 feet tall plants i will not need the penetration of a 1000w or even 600w if i set things up smart. thank you thank you!
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
THANK YOU THANK YOU! SO MUCH! All of you.. Danielsgb thank you so much for not being a dick like the first guy who replied ot my thread.. i have almost got my grow room design down perfect just from you alls replies. my friend at the grow shop swears by HPS lights b/c he says the plants just "like them more" but i am interested in the most hightech , self maintaining system that is the most efficient and will produce the highest yield for my space. im going to look into pocket doors (whatever those are). please tell me more because my purchases are getting narrower each time you guys reply here b/c i am seeing what approach is best for me. It looks like an aeropnoic SOG system is going to be best for me and the concerns i had for the light bill are dwindling b/c it appears that since i am not growing 6 feet tall plants i will not need the penetration of a 1000w or even 600w if i set things up smart. thank you thank you!
The guy from the grow shop is wrong. If his answer is plants "just like them more" I would be skeptical of anything he has to say. Does that chart look better for a HPS?
HPS have NO UV-B, they have less usable light. Quality is better from a CMH. If it was mine I would have 1 HPS for every 2 or 3 CMH.
Another thing to think of is light movers to cover more area with less lights.
Here's what a pocket door is. Instead of a door to swing open it slides into the wall.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&q=pocket+door+kit&biw=1152&bih=674&bav=on.1,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=5856163545950162382&ei=HHNhTbCyOIuosQPjue26CA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CIABEPMCMAI#

There are many different ones, just found this first.
If this is your first grow, then a K.I.S.S. set-up is the way to go. Like soil, 4 to 5 gal. pots for a 4" tall crop. SOG, SCROG, hydro, aero are all harder & more start up $$. You can always add more later. Better than a massive failure to delay you months.
Jack's Classic is a great nutrient & cheap. It is as good or better than any Bull Shit expensive nutrient. Save yourself hundreds of dollars to spend elsewhere.:leaf: Look at my crop with it & see how well it does.
Daniels:bigjoint:
 

sladeofdark

New Member
man you are my new hero.. soil you say? well let me share with you how far i am in already before i waste more money.. i have an 8 bucket system that waters automatically and uses hydrotons and rockwool. I will go look into the K.I.S.S. system right now. and those doors are awesome! that is gonna save me so much time. Thank you again! I will return the favor of your advice in any way i can man for real. Okay so i already orderd 4 400w ballast and bulbs.. i sitll have to get some reflectors though. i have 25 seeds on the way to me already as well, so im trying to make the best of what i got but take your advice from this point forward if that makes sense.here is what i have ordered from the nearest shop to me.
2 ea. GRODAN ROCKWOOL 1.5" Wrapped Cubes; MM 40/40 $0.00 1 ea. NEW EARTH MULTI-UNIT BUCKET SYSTEMS (8 PACK) $299.99 1 ea. Myalr 50' x 4' 2 mil $45.99 2 ea. GRODAN ROCKWOOL 4"x4" x 4" Wrapped Cubes with Hole; DM 10 $16.00 1 ea. CUSTOM GROW Gallon $34.99 1 ea. CUSTOM BLOOM Gallon $34.99 1 ea. BLOOM BUILDER GALLON $29.99 1 ea. BODY BUILDER Gallon $23.99 1 ea. MINI pH CONTROL KITS $7.50 1 ea. NEW EARTH LIQUID pH DOWN ADJUSTERS 8oz
so.. i just read what you meant by K.I.S.S. lol. okay well im already into a hydro system so i gotta make use of it for now. remember i am trying to to get the highest yield possible for the shortest plant ( under 5 feet) that i can manage.
thank you again and again! im getting so excited
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
This from IAm5toned on light coverage.


The Inverse Square Law
Imagine taking a picture on a sunny day. To set the camera for the right exposure you use an external light meter to measure the intensity of the sunlight. After taking the measurement on ground level, you shoot a picture. Then you and your friends, decide to have lunch, smoke a fatty, and take an elevator to the sixth floor of a building that has an outdoor cannabis cafe on the buildings roof. The view on the roof is so spectacular, you decide to take another picture. You take out your light meter and reading light's intensity, you discover the meter's measurement of the sunlight's intensity is the same on the building roof, six floors up, as it was on the ground floor.

That's the major difference between sunlight illumination and artificial lights. The intensity of sunlight doesn't change appreciable as you move up or down a couple of hundred feet. With artificial light this movement towards or away from the light source changes the light intensity dramatically.

If a one-watt light source is illuminating an area of one square centimeter at a distance of one meter, the intensity of light is 1 watt/SQ.CM. If we move the screen back to a two-meter radius the same light would be covering four times the area, reducing the light intensity to .25 watt/Sq. CM.

This is the inverse square law. The inverse square law states that the intensity of radiation is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from its source. So a doubling of distance reduces the lamps intensity by 1/4th.

So a general rule to follow when growing plants under artificial illumination is to keep the plants as close to the light source as possible, but not so close that any heat from the light source will damage the plant.
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
This is from IAm5toned, a Guru.

So you wanna play with the big boys, huh?

Using the chart in the above post, you can see a lamps effective footprint.
You would expect that, if you wanted to run multiple lamps, than you would just measure the area of the Growroom floor, and just divide it into footprints for the lamp sizes you want to run according to the chart, and you would be good to go, right? Wrong! If you were to make that mistake (and it is a common one to make) you will find that some of your plants end up stretchy, some of your plants end up squat, and some of your plants stretch so much they will fall over or get burned from the lamps!

This is a classic example of the inverse square rule, in full effect. This happens, because even though the chart i posted is very accurate in its data, the inverse square law still applies... that is, the light around the perimeter of a lamps footprint, is not as intense in the area of the center of the footprint, because it is further in distance from the lamp. So if one was to use 2 400w lamps, to cover an 8' x 4' area, then at the 4'l x 2'w center mark of the room, the light would be the least intense!

however, we know that the 2 400w lamps will be enough light for the job, we just need to redirect that light in a manner so that is covers the area more evenly...

Footprint overlap-
To keep the areas between the lights lit as evenly as the area directly underneath the light, we must reduce the distance between those lights by a factor of 1. this is easier to do than it sounds, lol....
using the chart above, you can see that if we were to light an 8' x 4' area with 400w lamps, we would need 2 lamps.And we just learned that spacing them evenly apart @ 48" will not work, because of the inverse square rule. well here's how you do it, its quite simple- you divide by one extra... (factor of one ;) ) how it works: we take the longest dimension of the area in question, for our example, it is 8', which is 96 inches. we have 2 lights. we need to 'divide by one extra', so we would divide 96 by 3, which equals 32 inches.


32 inches of space between the two lights, instead of 48... this slight reduction in footprint size will compensate for the inverse square law, and the problem of less light at the edge of a lamps footprint, and will work with any number of lamps. for more than one row of lamps, simply apply the same 'divide by one extra' rule to the distance between the rows as well. This even placement of lamps is critical for any mulit lamp operation in maintaining an even canopy.
Improper lamp placement in multi-lamp grow operations is one of the biggest causes of 'rippling' in large grow rooms.

but what about the edges?

looking at the image above, you can see that the blue lined diagram has solved the problem of evenly lighting the center of the area, but has left the edges of the room with less brilliance. in most grows, this would be normal, and you would expect that the plants at the edge of the footprint would stretch to compensate for there increased distances from the lamps.... but what if that's not what you desire?

this is where supplemental lighting comes into play...
the best solution to this problem would be take approximately one half wattage of the main lamps, and install lamps that closely match that 1/2 wattage, at the ends of the Grow Room-

having even lighting, is the key to having an even canopy
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
I have no clue on those nutrients & I don't do hydroponics. I can tell you, $124 on nutrients is a ton compared to what I use. My main nute Jack's (which you can use for hydro) is $16 for enough to do 10 to 15 plants from veg thru harvest. I use a few other things, but they are under $20 for a few years worth. I make my own soil mix which is under $100 for 8-10 4gal. pots. When you Keep It Simple Stupid there is less to fail. Soil is forgiving especially for a new grower. Shop always have something to sell you to fix a problem, but they can be way off.
Flat white paint is fine instead of tons of Mylar too BTW. Pumps can fail killing a crop fast with hydro & they can get thrown if you miss important steps.
Check out a couple of my journals, especially the build journal for some ideas.
Daniels
 

sladeofdark

New Member
Holy shit...im getting scared all over again lol. Now i am worried that i will not be able to get many plants in that area.. i may need to stick with the 8 bucket system that i have now and see what i can do. But it is important that i get a high yield b/c i have to cover my investment and be able to reinvest. So with what you have told me maybe i can calculate an approximate yield. Im not sure. but i got some planning to do again.
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
Don't want to discourage you but this stuff isn't easy. I harvest 2 to 3 oz. each, but I have no where near your space. You have to get them going, then clone Mothers.
Daniels
 

sladeofdark

New Member
oh no you are helping more than anything i have researched.. i learn better when talking directly to someone anyway bro. well 2-3oz. each is totally unacceptable i need to do 100grams per plant with as few plants as i am going to be growing. you think a first timer can pull it off?
edit.. i just noticed you said oz not grams.. well that is pretty good to get 70-80 grams dry per plant. i can live with that if i had 20 + plants ..lol
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
It's possible for sure. I gave you the info to design a footprint for your 4 400W bulbs, and that would be good for the 8 buckets. Anything more will require more lights. Use that program to show me how you think the 4 should go.
Daniels
 

sladeofdark

New Member
It's possible for sure. I gave you the info to design a footprint for your 4 400W bulbs, and that would be good for the 8 buckets. Anything more will require more lights. Use that program to show me how you think the 4 should go.
Daniels
okay my friend, im gonnna get back to you asap with that. I had to reformat my PC ( i work on PC's for a living) and got busy with alot of service calls today but im gonna model it all in my 3d program.
 
Top