Heaven, Hell, and the Devil aren't real, but God is?

bursto said:

John 11. 25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

The old and the new testament are still relevant today for me to learn from

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Sorry about the long answer.

Don't try to convince me that the Bible is accurate by quoting verses from it. The Bible has been messed up by the ignorance of the people that translated it. Words the translators didn't no the meaning of were guessed at and not ever corrected. If you want to convince me that it's right then use the earliest writings, not what's written there now.

Quoting something as prove that it's accurate to someone that has studied has studded it is a waste of time. I was forced to learn what it says all of my young life. When I was a student at California Baptist College (Now University) in 1958 I ask Dean O. T. Brown questions that he couldn't give straight answers to. His answer was, and this is an exact quote, "Just believe it." That's when I started studding the earliest writings and found out that there are so many errors in translation. Some of it is OK, but not enough to use it as the prove. That's like using a word to define itself.

You can get more accurate by replacing the word "God" with the original word "Elohim", the original word that no one really know what it means. It becomes very obvious that there is more than one.

I don't have any good idea of the nature of God. In no way do I believe the He is just a spirit.

DancesWithWeeds said:

Sorry about the long answer.

Don't try to convince me that the Bible is accurate by quoting verses from it. The Bible has been messed up by the ignorance of the people that translated it. Words the translators didn't no the meaning of were guessed at and not ever corrected. If you want to convince me that it's right then use the earliest writings, not what's written there now.

Quoting something as prove that it's accurate to someone that has studied has studded it is a waste of time. I was forced to learn what it says all of my young life. When I was a student at California Baptist College (Now University) in 1958 I ask Dean O. T. Brown questions that he couldn't give straight answers to. His answer was, and this is an exact quote, "Just believe it." That's when I started studding the earliest writings and found out that there are so many errors in translation. Some of it is OK, but not enough to use it as the prove. That's like using a word to define itself.

You can get more accurate by replacing the word "God" with the original word "Elohim", the original word that no one really know what it means. It becomes very obvious that there is more than one.

I don't have any good idea of the nature of God. In no way do I believe the He is just a spirit.

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Speaking about the accuracy of the bible you all are talking about I was told by a muslim guy one time that due to the inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible that that was the reason that the quran came about.
As far as contradictions you don't have to read very far in the bible to find them. Genesis 1 and 2 creation stories contradict one another right off the bat. Not a good start for a book given by a perfect being.
Now if you go looking for an explanation for these contradictions you'll find so many different explanations. Depends on who explains them.
If how we spend eternity is so dependent on how we live our lives then why didnt this perfect being that loves us give us concrete, clear as a bell instructions as to how? Why disappear for thousands of years? Why all the different religions around the world? Why all the different denominations within all those religions. I would think a PERFECT BEING wouldn't have disappeared and left such a mess that causes so much pain and suffering and hatred.
Ok so now you say "but it's a fallen world since Adam and Eves mistake". So an omnipotent, omniscience god who had/has the power and foresight to both not allow it in the first place and not do anything about it in the second does neither? If he is omniscient then he knew what Adam and Eve were gonna do before he even created them. He knew what a mess his creation would become. Would a perfect being create an imperfect thing? I know, I'm rambling on and on.

you guys are just looking for reasons to doubt the word of God given to Moses and the subsequent prophets, i find reading the words of the old prophets as relevant for today's people as they were back in the day. If not more so as we are quite possibly living in the generation of the last days, as referenced in Mathew 24.32 -34

The Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

explained..
Some students of the Bible have used the re-formation of Israel to set an “end-times clock” leading up to the second coming of Christ. Specifically, some have said that Jesus will return before the generation alive in 1948 has passed away.

When people share Bible scriptures I know right away that these people are closed minded. Unable to think outside the box and fear making their own decisions. Religions build and prey on fear and control.
Let's not even get into the rituals. Consume my flesh, drink my blood. Outside of the church any rituals like this are satanic or evil. Yet this practice is welcome in religion. The day your god or someone else's god shuts down childrens hospitals, cures cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and a slew of other things that kill us. Then maybe I'll bend a knee. Kind and loving God my ass.

I'm pretty sure your going to find some scripture to post concerning my comments. Instead maybe post your personal feelings and stop hiding behind ancient man made scripture.

RottyRzr said:

Speaking about the accuracy of the bible you all are talking about I was told by a muslim guy one time that due to the inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible that that was the reason that the quran came about.

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Very interesting, really. I've never read the Quran. I am going on Amazon today and ordering one.

I've also though about reading the Book of Mormon.

DancesWithWeeds said:

Very interesting, really. I've never read the Quran. I am going on Amazon today and ordering one.

I've also though about reading the Book of Mormon.

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according to Mohamed, all white men are devils sounds like a false religion to me

right, so a white mouse comes from a grey mouse, and the white man comes from a brown germ, thats why all whites are devils, some great teaching found in the Koran

So the passage he quotes about the pale horse, is nothing to do with slavery from Africa.


Rev 6.8 So i looked and behold a pale horse. And the name of him who sat upon it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with hunger, with death, and the beasts of the earth.

Pale meaning yellowish green in color representing disease, to the Hebrews

DancesWithWeeds said:

Very interesting, really. I've never read the Quran. I am going on Amazon today and ordering one.

I've also though about reading the Book of Mormon.

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Just what I was told. I've never read it either. Do your research though. I was also told that Muhammed was illiterate and he had to remember what god told him and then tell it to scribes but like I said I haven't read it or researched it.

greenmobster440 said:

When people share Bible scriptures I know right away that these people are closed minded.

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Very true. That's one of the reasons I don't.

Unfortunately, the Catholic church remover the book of Enoch from the Bible in 1684. Those who read in will find that God may not be as loving and forgiving as we are told.

No, I don't quote the scriptures. I just tell people where to find answers. If the want to know they can read it themselves. Why quote something to someone that doesn't believe what you are quoting. Now, if it was a BELIEVER that your discussing it with one of you might change his mind.

I will probably always believe that the gods were E.T.'s and that what they did, and may still be doing, is plunder the earth.

Exactly, why share. Why bother? No facts in faith. The bible and other text are filled with common sense twisted into parables. Many of which leave many avenues to an answer. Hence the conflict of religion throughout history.

Any response I make is mine. Not some gods or some sheep herders recalling of events. I'm not a scholar of religion but I am a survivor of it. Luckily I got out.

There were 139,002 people in the U.S. federal prison system last year, and exactly 143 of them identified as atheists. Those self-described atheists made up a mere 0.1% of the federal prison population.

Ozumoz66 said:

There were 139,002 people in the U.S. federal prison system last year, and exactly 143 of them identified as atheists. Those self-described atheists made up a mere 0.1% of the federal prison population.

In 2021, atheists made up only 0.1% of the federal prison population

Atheists and Humanists are all-but-absent in federal prison, according to new data obtained exclusively by OnlySky

onlysky.media

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Now there's definitive proof that us atheists are better people than bible thumpers! I knew it all along.

I don't want to sound like I don't think there is a god, God, higher power, or something. I just don't think he is quite what we perceive.

They just keep finding older more ancient stuff. When I was a kid humans were only supposed to have been here 7000 years. There was a show recently aabuot exploring a cave that had graves over a million years old. Assuming that there is a God that created us that's a long time to keep a story straight.

Ozumoz66 said:

There were 139,002 people in the U.S. federal prison system last year, and exactly 143 of them identified as atheists. Those self-described atheists made up a mere 0.1% of the federal prison population.

In 2021, atheists made up only 0.1% of the federal prison population

Atheists and Humanists are all-but-absent in federal prison, according to new data obtained exclusively by OnlySky

onlysky.media

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I used to work in a maximum security state prison. Of course many do not identify atheist. Most flock to the prison ministry seeking comfort in a uncomfortable place. I never had an issue with it. If that eased their mind then so be it. We all find our own peace be it with or without a god. I choose my own peace at my own pace without support from a imaginary omnipresent god.

Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

DancesWithWeeds said:

I don't want to sound like I don't think there is a god, God, higher power, or something. I just don't think he is quite what we perceive.

They just keep finding older more ancient stuff. When I was a kid humans were only supposed to have been here 7000 years. There was a show recently aabuot exploring a cave that had graves over a million years old. Assuming that there is a God that created us that's a long time to keep a story straight.

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Human history ...we ain't learned shit

RottyRzr said:

Speaking about the accuracy of the bible.... If he is omniscient then he knew what Adam and Eve were gonna do before he even created them. He knew what a mess his creation would become. Would a perfect being create an imperfect thing? I know, I'm rambling on and on.

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I'm only guessing it was Adam and Steve.
After creating the universe and Adam out of nothing, he ran out of material and had to use a rib from Adam to create his companion. This rib had male DNA, therefore it was Steve. That or the first trans person - you decide!

OldMedUser said:

Now there's definitive proof that us atheists are better people than bible thumpers! I knew it all along.

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Wait, what! Are you suggesting that the notion expressed in post #80 is inaccurate - that atheists do whatever they want without consequences. Perhaps they're smarter at not getting caught. Or maybe they have a better moral compass than they're labelled as having.

greenmobster440 said:

Human history ...we ain't learned shit

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We knew 12,000 years ago but we forgot.

There are literally thousands upon thousands of translation errors in any modern Bible. That should be concerning to any “true believer” who doesn’t speak the ancient languages.

Ozumoz66 said:

Wait, what! Are you suggesting that the notion expressed in post #80 is inaccurate - that atheists do whatever they want without consequences. Perhaps they're smarter at not getting caught. Or maybe they have a better moral compass than they're labelled as having.

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In my case, both. I never got caught or lied my way out of serious shit that would have got me serious time at the GreyBar Hotel more than once. Then I found my moral compass and tho I still did things that could have serious repercussions, growing lots of pot long before legalization and maybe selling a bit, I was smart enough to keep my yap shut and avoid having to lie about it.

Other than a couple of overnight stays or visiting friends/family I never had to sign the register at that hotel.

ATM I'm being treated for adult ADHD which could explain a lot of poor decisions of the past. Nothing like a couple cups of strong coffee with a side order of dextroamphetamine to get your motor started in the morning.

you guys logic is flawed, so because a once atheist like yourselves, decides to read and quote from the bible, he is closed minded, that's hilarious.

and the prison stats are dubious as someone commented that many offenders that were not believers sought refuge in the meetings held to talk about Christ, to escape the hell hole they got themselves in.

Luke 5 32
32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

not sure how you can change these words of Jesus much, but you guys believe your own truth, if you want