Heat confusion room in a room?

Enanthate said:

That's what I said. Evaporation has a cooling effect. The fan is cooling you because your sweat evaporates.
This is basic physics dude. If you want stable measurements of airtemps you put it in your exhaust.

(Edit: typo)

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thats not what the other guy claimed. youre talking evaporative cooling yet he clearly refers to convective gas.
of course the build up heat gets taken away by the air molecules around it... its called windchill-effect... molecule movement "equalizes" temperature faster. Heat gets transmitted through contact, and then, outta the room.

Enanthate said:

There are several factors at play, and I have studied them all. That's why I say what I say.

Of course mine is in the exhaust, I kinda argue for it a little here..

A humidifier feels cooling, but does not really cool down anything. Evaporation cools down the surface or air the liquid evaporates from, but heats up the air that it evaporates to. Surface cools down, air heats up. Hence the conservation of energy is not broken.

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what about the energy differences when a molecule changes its aggregation status?
Im not sure why youre citing entropy or the therm. laws here as its not a closed physical system anyway...

2cent said:

Can u explain this to me then.

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get an InfraRed-temp-gun. whats really counting for VPD is leaf surface temp. the cheap tempmeters are oftentimes off...
measure air intake & outtake. then you have 2 (4) reliable data. inside the room the numbers would fluctuate locally so much the data wouldnt be much useful...

Kassiopeija said:

thats not what the other guy claimed. youre talking evaporative cooling yet he clearly refers to convective gas.
of course the build up heat gets taken away by the air molecules around it... its called windchill-effect... molecule movement "equalizes" temperature faster. Heat gets transmitted through contact, and then, outta the room.


what about the energy differences when a molecule changes its aggregation status?
Im not sure why youre citing entropy or the therm. laws here as its not a closed physical system anyway...

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He asked for best place to put the thermometer/thermostat. I answered exhaust to measure the actual airtemp inside the tent.
He wouldn't put it in the exhaust because air has a cooling effect(used example: fan feels cooling).
Hence we started talking about evaporation and all that. It's really all in the thread, dude. Read all posts.

Sure, cool air cools down something that is hotter, it being a surface or just hotter air. That's not really the issue here, it's about where to put the thermometer.

Conservation of energy does not need to be in a closed physical system, neither does any of the laws of physics.
And I did not mention entropy, that's something completely different.

Enanthate said:

He wouldn't put it in the exhaust because air has a cooling effect(used example: fan feels cooling).

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everywhere in a growroom there is air flowing around... the point is to shield against the heat of a HID... and to get always the same data and not like, variances in data because plants grew over the instruments etc pp.... he also needs a second intrument so he can deduce from the temp + rH increase what's up in the groom itself...

To which laws where you refering to when you stated that the energy conservation doesn't have to be broken...

Kassiopeija said:

everywhere in a growroom there is air flowing around... the point is to shield against the heat of a HID... and to get always the same data and not like, variances in data because plants grew over the instruments etc pp.... he also needs a second intrument so he can deduce from the temp + rH increase what's up in the groom itself...

To which laws where you refering to when you stated that the energy conservation doesn't have to be broken...

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That would be the law of conservation of energy..

The point OF shielding from the heat of the HID is to get stable measurements, hence exhaust.
Depending on your setup, exhaust air can be much hotter than the air your plant is sitting in. This is something you need to calibrate your brain to, for example; thermometer has shown around 35C all day, plants are looking happy. Now you know your thermometer should show around 35C.
Rough example, but with some brains you'll get the point. The main point is, again, to get stable measurements of airtemp.
If you want precise measurements of your plant's actual environment, exhaust may or may not be an ideal location;
In my old room I had a fan to circulate the air everywhere around(and top to bottom). My exhaust was literally next to my plant, this temperature is obviously what my plant was sitting in.

"Variances in data because plants grew over the instruments" will not happen with thermometer in exhaust, so not sure why you bring that up.

Enanthate said:

law of conservation of energy..

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which only applies in a closed physical system - which, a growroom, is NOT - as you VENT out.
And that's exactly what the water evaporation cooling technique makes use of it - some of the energy is thrown out by an increased amounts of water molecules in the air.... so that's the thing...

I have tested all kinds of places of temperature & rH probing, with various tents, and believe me - inside it's everywhere very fluctuation - from a number of things... so just these 2 places weren't fluctuation that strong...

Kassiopeija said:

which only applies in a closed physical system - which, a growroom, is NOT - as you VENT out.

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No, the PRINCIPLE is that the total energy of AN ISOLATED system stays the same.
THE LAW applies to every scenario in our universe, as far as we know anyway.
Study physics, or shut up about it. Seriously. Sorry to be rude, but this is ridiculous..

Enanthate said:

, the PRINCIPLE is that the total energy of AN ISOLATED system stays the same

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yeah but the climate in your growroom is not an isolated system, not energywise - as your deliverung electricity, plus you _vent_ in & out. Good lord this guy doesnt know how a simply growroom works, and is instead lecturing on E=mc^2, "the universe" plus, ofc, the basic scientific axiom.
And one needs to study phyics to know where to hang a probe WTF are u talkin about? you are obsessing over this science-babble where some "law" renders all proper cooling methods ineffective, or nonworking (???) yet they do work. Measure it... ofc at the right place

Enanthate said:

THE LAW applies to every scenario in our universe

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You missed that part, I guess.
And yeah, e=mc^2. Spot on dude
I never tried to disprove a proper cooling method, neither did I. But if you refer to a humidifier as a cooling method, then yes, it's been disproven. Not by me by any means, but it's been disproven. Use Google or something.

Edit: To be clear, and I hope this is clear as ice: If the leaves did not rely on sweating to cool down, it would be a different scenario. But they do sweat, I assume you already know that. Adding moisture to the air does fuckall for our plants' environment in regards to temperature. According to physics, anyway. If this turns out to be wrong I know a few people who would be ecstatic to know about it.

Going stupidly offtopic here. Sorry @2cent to jack your thread. Hope you figure out what's going on
I know I would appreciate an update if you do
Sorry @Kassiopeija if I offended you, just looking to get things straight. Get carried away sometimes..

Enanthate said:

Going stupidly offtopic here. Sorry @2cent to jack your thread. Hope you figure out what's going on
I know I would appreciate an update if you do
Sorry @Kassiopeija if I offended you, just looking to get things straight. Get carried away sometimes..

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Haha hard to keep up but prefere thosover a 2 posted dead thread lol.
Forums are for debates and its amazing when debates can be held without people getting childish and going crazy. So thank you both lol.

As for the problem yeah it still troubling i put the thermostat on my carbon filter and it reads 24 there
While in the light is 27 so not too bad

As for your post of moisyure does fkall... Am iv wtong in thiking youve not considered vpd?
Im testing it and i have 2 plants at 45rh 2 at 80.

The 80 matches the vpd chart to 0.8kj while other runs at 1.7kj.


The 1 thats lower rh is now 4 leaves and small. Got brown spots.

The 1 at correct vpd has 16 leaves 3 stems and is tall. Green and healthy on dame food and same enviroment exept humidity. Vpd comparison
I

2cent said:

Haha hard to keep up but prefere thosover a 2 posted dead thread lol.
Forums are for debates and its amazing when debates can be held without people getting childish and going crazy. So thank you both lol.

As for the problem yeah it still troubling i put the thermostat on my carbon filter and it reads 24 there
While in the light is 27 so not too bad

As for your post of moisyure does fkall... Am iv wtong in thiking youve not considered vpd?
Im testing it and i have 2 plants at 45rh 2 at 80.

The 80 matches the vpd chart to 0.8kj while other runs at 1.7kj.


The 1 thats lower rh is now 4 leaves and small. Got brown spots.

The 1 at correct vpd has 16 leaves 3 stems and is tall. Green and healthy on dame food and same enviroment exept humidity. Vpd comparison
I

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cool what chart did u use? what about leaf surface temp?

Kassiopeija said:

cool what chart did u use? what about leaf surface temp?

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I follow http://www.just4growers.com/stream/temperature-humidity-and-c02/vapor-pressure-deficit-the-hidden-force-on-your-plants.aspx