Having a problem...

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envisiontat2

Active Member
:smile: Hey ev1! Well, this is my first time posting...first time growing as well. Things seemed to be going great until recently. Having a few issues that are suddenly, but rapidly, affecting my plant... not sure what to do. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Bag seed
Started 4/23/07
Plant is about 17.5" tall
Growing in 2'x2.5'x3' box, interior painted white for reflectivity
Light schedule was 24 hrs per day for 5 weeks, 18/6 last 3 weeks
Grown in apprx. 2.5 gal. bucket
using 10x27w CFL's ( 1700 lumens ea. I believe )
Soil is "professional potting mix" w/ vermiculite
Have been watering w/ apprx. 1 gal. of water every three days, adding 1/4 tsp Peter's 20/20/20 , 1/4 tsp epsom salt, and 1 tbsp 3% Hydrogen
peroxide every 3rd watering- lately seems to be drying out quicker.
Also added 1 tbsp of Bloodmeal 4th week and 6th week.
I have halved almost all big fan leaves, then removed them 3-4 days later, to allow for better light penetration. Done this 2 times now- fills back in withing 4-5 days with new growth.
Ran into slight issue 4 weeks ago. Thought possible over fert, flushed soil and replaced about 1/2 the 2.5 gal. bucket with new soil.
I have always had some reddish purple color in fan leaf stems, not in stalk or lateral branches. About 4 days ago started to pick up heavier purple/red in fan leaf stems,leaves have gotten darker and somewhat wrinkled looking. New growth is lighter in color and developing what seems like banded light and dark green ( zinc def.maybe?). A few leaves also appear to be cracking. Tips are pointing down and cuffed down slightly along margins. also gotten kinda droopy, not reaching up as well any more.

OH! Definately a female, I have spent hours upon hours just observing the plant... nodes, flowers... so on. From 6th node up, small preflowers through out ( small sheath-like w/ yellowish white hairs ), NO BALLS anywhere! :)

No PH Meter or any electronic gadgets to help- have attempted to use a PH testing kit that contains chemical drops of Phenol red... always shows light or slightly darker orange color, indicating 6.2-6.8. Tried to use test strips also, showing close to the same PH. Not sure if these products, or my methods of aquiring the samples to test PH level, are even useful or worth doing in this way.

I am including some photos of my plant. Any help or pointers would really help! Just hate to see her die on me. Been devouring as much info as I can from this sight. Love it!! Youguys are great, thanks again!
 

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nongreenthumb

nongreenthumb

Well-Known Member
Looks like some kind of nutrient problem, it could be the hydrogen peroxide you have been adding.

has this problem developed recently, has it been in line with anything different you have done?
 
the widowman

the widowman

Well-Known Member
looks great man get it on 12/12 light cycle with total dark at night. looks a sativa dominant strain so it will contiue to grow. use perlite instead of vermiculite
 
kieahtoka

kieahtoka

Well-Known Member
Probably because it doesn't retain as much water as vermiculite does. It also has a neutral Ph. Vermiculite can vary, and most of the time has a slightly alkaline Ph to it. Both work it's just perlite seems to be easier for the newbie grower.
 
babygro

babygro

Well-Known Member
envisiontat2 said:
Any help or pointers would really help! Just hate to see her die on me. Been devouring as much info as I can from this sight. Love it!! Youguys are great, thanks again!
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Hiya

Nice looking plant apart from the problems you're having.

I think you're over fertilising to be honest - EC way too high. Blood and bone meal are slow release fertilisers - don't use them, as you can't control their release. Stop with the hydrogen peroxide too - it's killing all the soil bacteria and beneficial microbes.

That leaves us with the epsom salts and Peters. That Peters is chemical based fertiliser and it's pretty potent - it has high levels of N, P and K, although you've only used it every 3rd watering at a low dose, I still think it's too potent.

Ease back on the feeding, ditch the blood and bone and peroxide and use the Epsoms sparingly or as a foliar feed if you have to.

Let us now how your plant gets on.
 
babygro

babygro

Well-Known Member
kieahtoka said:
Probably because it doesn't retain as much water as vermiculite does. It also has a neutral Ph. Vermiculite can vary, and most of the time has a slightly alkaline Ph to it. Both work it's just perlite seems to be easier for the newbie grower.
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Any why would he want less water retention?

Is the ph relevant when compost buffers ph?

Both work, but perlites easier for the newbie? Based on what exactly?

Unfortunately, (twice in one day) you're too inexperienced to know what the main advantage of vermiculite is over perlite, and it's not water retention.

Keep annoying me, and I'll keep showing up the holes in your knowledge.
 
kieahtoka

kieahtoka

Well-Known Member
babygro said:
Any why would he want less water retention?

Is the ph relevant when compost buffers ph?

Both work, but perlites easier for the newbie? Based on what exactly?

Unfortunately, (twice in one day) you're too inexperienced to know what the main advantage of vermiculite is over perlite, and it's not water retention.

Keep annoying me, and I'll keep showing up the holes in your knowledge.
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I'm not trying to annoy you. I was also not speaking of this particular grow, I was speaking on behalf of the widowman on his suggestion. I said it is easier because of the ph balance, aka a newbie won't have to worry about the perlite compared to the vermiculite. Mainly because with vermiculite it does hold more water than perlite, and it CAN cause more water retention than desired. I use both and have found that the ph of my grow does stay a lot more stable when using perlite instead of vermiculite. Which is the main reason I recommended it.
 
babygro

babygro

Well-Known Member
nongreenthumb said:
Yeah well he also thinks they look good so I wouldnt take his opinion on anything
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Well they don't look that bad and I don't take much notice of what he says, I was just curious why someone would recommend perlite over vermiculite when they don't really understand what they both do. Both have their place and both have their uses, but you need to understand the properties of each really before deciding which is best for your own particular cicumstances.

Personally, in Veg, I prefer to include up to 5% of vermiculite and 5% of perlite used together, I find that produces the best balance. As soon as late veg and early flowering comes along, I tend to repot with just 5% perlite.
 
kieahtoka

kieahtoka

Well-Known Member
babygro said:
Well they don't look that bad and I don't take much notice of what he says, I was just curious why someone would recommend perlite over vermiculite when they don't really understand what they both do. Both have their place and both have their uses, but you need to understand the properties of each really before deciding which is best for your own particular cicumstances.

Personally, in Veg, I prefer to include up to 5% of vermiculite and 5% of perlite used together, I find that produces the best balance. As soon as late veg and early flowering comes along, I tend to repot with just 5% perlite.
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Here's something I will agree with you on. In my other post I was giving a reason as to why widowman probably recommended it. I use both too but if I HAD to choose I'd stick with perlite over vermiculite. I wasn't trying to imply that one was shit and one was perfect. Like I said they are both fine.
 
babygro

babygro

Well-Known Member
kieahtoka said:
I said it is easier because of the ph balance, aka a newbie won't have to worry about the perlite compared to the vermiculite.
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Ph is largely irrelevant in soil grows as compost buffers ph, so ph movement isn't really an issue is it? Therefore it's not a particularly strong reason to advocate the use of one over the other.

kieahtoka said:
Mainly because with vermiculite it does hold more water than perlite, and it CAN cause more water retention than desired.
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Yes Vermiculite retains about 100 times more water than perlite will, but you'll only get over watering problems using it if you either don't understand how to water your plants, or use too much Vermiculite in your soil mix. So that's not a particulary strong reason to advocate it's use of perlite either.

kieahtoka said:
I use both and have found that the ph of my grow does stay a lot more stable when using perlite instead of vermiculite. Which is the main reason I recommended it.
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So because you have a tiny little bit of experience of growing, you think you now have more knowledge than those with way more knowledge and experience than you do?

And you still haven't pointed out the main advantage of Vermiculite over Perlite, because as I said earlier, you've simply not got sufficient knowledge, but you think it's fun to spin out what little knowledge you do have.

Little knowledge = dangerous thing.
 
E

envisiontat2

Active Member
Thanks guys, will def cut back on fert, and no more peroxide or bloodmeal.... will see what happens. As for the vermiculite vs. perlite, actually have perlite mixed into soil... not vermiculite as listed in first post.
 
kieahtoka

kieahtoka

Well-Known Member
babygro said:
Ph is largely irrelevant in soil grows as compost buffers ph, so ph movement isn't really an issue is it? Therefore it's not a particularly strong reason to advocate the use of one over the other.



Yes Vermiculite retains about 100 times more water than perlite will, but you'll only get over watering problems using it if you either don't understand how to water your plants, or use too much Vermiculite in your soil mix. So that's not a particulary strong reason to advocate it's use of perlite either.



So because you have a tiny little bit of experience of growing, you think you now have more knowledge than those with way more knowledge and experience than you do?

And you still haven't pointed out the main advantage of Vermiculite over Perlite, because as I said earlier, you've simply not got sufficient knowledge, but you think it's fun to spin out what little knowledge you do have.

Little knowledge = dangerous thing.
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babygro I'm not trying to get into another one of these little arguments where you throw out your little insults to make yourself look better. If, yet again you'd read I said I use both, and that in a pair they work better than alone. You can go to hell if you feel like you have to attack other people's opinions to make yourself feel better. I tried to explain to you something since widowman did not. I listed the pros of perlite and the cons of vermiculite. MY OPINION is that perlite is easier than vermiculite to use, but they are great when used together. Which I'm sorry but you cannot change no matter what type of bullshit you throw into the air. So fuck off you little shit.
 
kieahtoka

kieahtoka

Well-Known Member
I don't get why you have to attack other peoples opinion to get your point across. why not add to it, teach rather than ridicule. The only purpose you serve to accomplish is make yourself look like a dick.
 
babygro

babygro

Well-Known Member
kieahtoka said:
babygro I'm not trying to get into another one of these little arguments where you throw out your little insults to make yourself look better.
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One would have thought you'd have learned your lesson by now, but apparently not. If you don't like the way I operate, or my opinions, don't reply to any of my posts. You have a little bit of knowledge and experience and now think you know everything - you don't, you've got long way to go.

I'm not here to teach you either, do you own research.

The main difference between Vermiculite and Perlite is that Vermiculite is a cation exchange soil amendment. That simply means it holds a lot more nutrients than Perlite will and can release them over a longer time period.

As I said, it has nothing to do with water retention.

Now fuck off and annoy someone else.
 
babygro

babygro

Well-Known Member
kieahtoka said:
I don't get why you have to attack other peoples opinion to get your point across. why not add to it, teach rather than ridicule. The only purpose you serve to accomplish is make yourself look like a dick.
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Hold on a second here. On the one hand you'll disagree with my opinion on something and on the other you expect me to teach you?

I'm not here to teach you ANYTHING.

My involvement in this thread was to help the original poster, not teach you the differences between Perlite and Vermiculite.
 
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