Have you done this???

I want to inoculate my soil with Lacto and I don't have the means to keep a culture going right now. I have an over abundance of Lacto fermented veggies.
Correct me if I am wrong but, in the process the salt transfers osmotically into the veggie and the water leaves.
So if I want to use them, would it be an issue if I used thin slices so as not to overload the soil with the salts contained??
I understand that composting them first would be ideal. I do not have a functional compost pile or worm bins yet.
I am a forager. As that is my deal I, I am not a person that wants to buy ingredients for inputs (milk, sugar, ect. ). Foraging for asparagus, stinging nettle, acorns, ect. is my route. I make pickled veg a lot.
Can anyone help me out with other ways to use these ??
I have indoor and outdoor gardens but I am limited by the seasons. . .

living gardening said:

I want to inoculate my soil with Lacto and I don't have the means to keep a culture going right now. I have an over abundance of Lacto fermented veggies.
Correct me if I am wrong but, in the process the salt transfers osmotically into the veggie and the water leaves.
So if I want to use them, would it be an issue if I used thin slices so as not to overload the soil with the salts contained??
I understand that composting them first would be ideal. I do not have a functional compost pile or worm bins yet.
I am a forager. As that is my deal I, I am not a person that wants to buy ingredients for inputs (milk, sugar, ect. ). Foraging for asparagus, stinging nettle, acorns, ect. is my route. I make pickled veg a lot.
Can anyone help me out with other ways to use these ??
I have indoor and outdoor gardens but I am limited by the seasons. . .

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It looks like you really want to go the JADAM route. If you have heard of KNF, this is Dr. Cho's son, who also has a PhD. JADAM focuses on material that anyone can find on a island and he removes the need for brown sugar/molasses for his ferments. LABs and Bokashi require molasses. JADAM requires a handful of leaf compost, which is free.

MustangStudFarm said:

It looks like you really want to go the JADAM route. If you have heard of KNF, this is Dr. Cho's son, who also has a PhD. JADAM focuses on material that anyone can find on a island and he removes the need for brown sugar/molasses for his ferments. LABs and Bokashi require molasses. JADAM requires a handful of leaf compost, which is free.
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JADAM Organic Farming

The way to Ultra-Low-Cost agriculture

en.jadam.kr

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Damn Dude! That would be my Jam!
Thank You .
I will be ordering these tonight.

living gardening said:

Damn Dude! That would be my Jam!
Thank You .
I will be ordering these tonight.

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Most of the literature and lectures are in Korean though. This book is one of the few that's in English.

I just sent in some of my JADAM liquid fertilizer for a Saturated Paste Test. I made it about a year ago and I have several 55gal drums full of it... One plant species is Lambsqurater, which is supposed to be high in manganese. My soil tests have been coming back low in Mn, so this was ideal for me, just curious how the test is going to come back. The other plant that I am using is "Tall Ragweed"(Pic) and it's all over my yard. The point of making JADAM is use invasive species and turn them into fertilizer. Also, I was watching the KNF certification video with Drake and he said that the best time to take the plant samples is the darkest time of day, which is 2-3am. He said that it's more common for people to gather plants before sunrise, but I'm a oddball...

I was already lining up my stinging nettle sources for several drums to ferment w/o sugar.
What was this video you speak of ??
I forage asparagus in a major way and I have been thinking of using skunk cabbage (everywhere and way early). See, this is my style, CHEAP.
Sorry . . . I meant economical.

living gardening said:

I was already lining up my stinging nettle sources for several drums to ferment w/o sugar.
What was this video you speak of ??
I forage asparagus in a major way and I have been thinking of using skunk cabbage (everywhere and way early). See, this is my style, CHEAP.
Sorry . . . I meant economical.

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This is the KNF tech that uses brown sugar and molasses. They are both Dr. Cho, father and son. I hear people say that KNF is like a orchestra while JADAM is like rock 'n' roll. JADAM is lose with the rules and people say that it works well. KNF might have a higher ceiling, but it is WAY more involved and cost more. Here is the KNF certification course that I was talking about.

MustangStudFarm said:

I just sent in some of my JADAM liquid fertilizer for a Saturated Paste Test. I made it about a year ago and I have several 55gal drums full of it... One plant species is Lambsqurater, which is supposed to be high in manganese. My soil tests have been coming back low in Mn, so this was ideal for me, just curious how the test is going to come back. The other plant that I am using is "Tall Ragweed"(Pic) and it's all over my yard. The point of making JADAM is use invasive species and turn them into fertilizer. Also, I was watching the KNF certification video with Drake and he said that the best time to take the plant samples is the darkest time of day, which is 2-3am. He said that it's more common for people to gather plants before sunrise, but I'm a oddball...
View attachment 4856864

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I can't remember if you said if you use WSC ? I like the Kefir feedings but Milk can be expensive. If not, what do you do for Ca ?

living gardening said:

I can't remember if you said if you use WSC ? I like the Kefir feedings but Milk can be expensive. If not, what do you do for Ca ?

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Egg shell/oyster shell flour if I want to raise Ph and gypsum if I don't want to raise it.

MustangStudFarm said:

Egg shell/oyster shell flour if I want to raise Ph and gypsum if I don't want to raise it.

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Have you tried Water Soluble Calcium?
I am going to grow many types of veg this year with our hemp crop. I will be havin' me some maters (heirlooms' my jam, has been for yrs) so if WSC is vinegar and egg shells or charred bone (not my thing but I could if it was hard to get egg shells) and can be fed in foliar form. I want to see what kind of monster Tomatoes I can grow. I've been gardening for 10+ years (not hemp). Every year my methods change in giant ways (because of the knowledge that I seek out). I have always been into permaculture and outdoorsman stuff. If my wife would allow it (she won't, I've asked) I'd live in the bush in Alaska.
How often are you amending for Ca? As to that question what size are you containers?

living gardening said:

Have you tried Water Soluble Calcium?
I am going to grow many types of veg this year with our hemp crop. I will be havin' me some maters (heirlooms' my jam, has been for yrs) so if WSC is vinegar and egg shells or charred bone (not my thing but I could if it was hard to get egg shells) and can be fed in foliar form. I want to see what kind of monster Tomatoes I can grow. I've been gardening for 10+ years (not hemp). Every year my methods change in giant ways (because of the knowledge that I seek out). I have always been into permaculture and outdoorsman stuff. If my wife would allow it (she won't, I've asked) I'd live in the bush in Alaska.
How often are you amending for Ca? As to that question what size are you containers?

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The last time I had my soil tested, I was very low in Ca. The reason for that, I was trying to keep my Ph low. However, I didn't realize that gypsum was the answer. Adding vinegar to eggshells should be about the same. The vinegar will help keep the Ph neutral. KNF people use brown rice vinegar and suggest the next best would be apple cider vinegar. Just keep away from the vinegar made from petroleum like Heinz brand.

MustangStudFarm said:

The last time I had my soil tested, I was very low in Ca. The reason for that, I was trying to keep my Ph low. However, I didn't realize that gypsum was the answer. Adding vinegar to eggshells should be about the same. The vinegar will help keep the Ph neutral. KNF people use brown rice vinegar and suggest the next best would be apple cider vinegar. Just keep away from the vinegar made from petroleum like Heinz brand.

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Well it just may so happen that I have four gallons of rather 'eh apple cider I brewed a year ago. I would need an Aceto Bactor for ACV correct?
I haven't been able to attend a class in a bit (wonder why?/!).
Also, have onion wine made from wild leek tops I harvested last year (that is a smell story for another day), and also have four gallons of fruit wine that was weak to begin with.
If the alcohol has oxidized off with time and Oxygen, would there be any benefit to put it on your plants?
And (Going on and on) do you know of a way to use the lees from wine making in a non-composted beneficial way? I would think dry it and mix it with a top dress mix with alfalfa meal, kelp meal, ect . . . I would think it would consist of mostly pectin but I usually only look into reactionary interactions. . .

living gardening said:

Well it just may so happen that I have four gallons of rather 'eh apple cider I brewed a year ago. I would need an Aceto Bactor for ACV correct?
I haven't been able to attend a class in a bit (wonder why?/!).
Also, have onion wine made from wild leek tops I harvested last year (that is a smell story for another day), and also have four gallons of fruit wine that was weak to begin with.
If the alcohol has oxidized off with time and Oxygen, would there be any benefit to put it on your plants?
And (Going on and on) do you know of a way to use the lees from wine making in a non-composted beneficial way? I would think dry it and mix it with a top dress mix with alfalfa meal, kelp meal, ect . . . I would think it would consist of mostly pectin but I usually only look into reactionary interactions. . .

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We are moving way outside of my comfort zone on this lol. I would like to dive deeper on ferments, but I'm trying to get a commercial greenhouse set up right now. I'm probably going to stick with composting and soil testing for now, until I get on my feet and profitable. I got to make so many down payments on stuff that I don't have time to experiment. However, I did send off my JADAM JLF(JADAM Liquid Fertilizer) for a saturated paste test and I'm interested to see how it turns out. Should have the test results back any day now...

MustangStudFarm said:

We are moving way outside of my comfort zone on this lol. I would like to dive deeper on ferments, but I'm trying to get a commercial greenhouse set up right now. I'm probably going to stick with composting and soil testing for now, until I get on my feet and profitable. I got to make so many down payments on stuff that I don't have time to experiment. However, I did send off my JADAM JLF(JADAM Liquid Fertilizer) for a saturated paste test and I'm interested to see how it turns out. Should have the test results back any day now...

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I saw you on FCP. I can't remember the one but I remember things like dropping "just running a mustang stud farm" (probably murdered that but . . .).
I'm up in Wisco. You are in Oklahoma right? My indoor is my lab. I guess outdoor is too. I am planning on letting a bean or two grow up a plant, see what comes. I have a free year to screw off. If you have something you think may work let me know. I might try it.
BTW I just scored 500 lbs of spent mushroom grow logs (the compressed bran and lignin kind) for $50. Local and I want to get all every week. I'm thinking of selling SSTs and compost at my local farmers market. Also, the guy at the shroom farm said if I wanted he could provide a certificate of organics for the spent logs too! Even If I sold that compost for .25 a lb It's a way to pay the bills. Real, Good compost is non-existent in my area.

living gardening said:

I saw you on FCP. I can't remember the one but I remember things like dropping "just running a mustang stud farm" (probably murdered that but . . .).
I'm up in Wisco. You are in Oklahoma right? My indoor is my lab. I guess outdoor is too. I am planning on letting a bean or two grow up a plant, see what comes. I have a free year to screw off. If you have something you think may work let me know. I might try it.
BTW I just scored 500 lbs of spent mushroom grow logs (the compressed bran and lignin kind) for $50. Local and I want to get all every week. I'm thinking of selling SSTs and compost at my local farmers market. Also, the guy at the shroom farm said if I wanted he could provide a certificate of organics for the spent logs too! Even If I sold that compost for .25 a lb It's a way to pay the bills. Real, Good compost is non-existent in my area.

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You must be talking about a shitake farm or something similar, maybe lion's head mushrooms. It's a wood dwelling species anyways. Is the wood soft to the touch, like crumbly? I'm picturing yellow looking wood that feels like a sponge. If that's what you have, it wouldn't take any time at all to compost that stuff. I was listening to Dr. Faust on Kis Organics podcast and he was talking about humic acid formation. He said that it forms from woody material because it has lignin in the wood. Hey, my help is here gotta go. But if you compost that wood, you should have A+ compost!

Ok, that wasn't my help, just my dogs barking like crazy at nothing... Here is that podcast that I was talking about, he goes into composting and he suggest to use woody material: https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast-episode-11

This is what Dr. Faust is known for, this is his company BioAg:

I have the Fulvic by them. I want to order the humic but it will have to wait. We've decided market garden and hemp. Got a spot at a local farmers market Thursday nights. I have access to a couple hundred lbs of rabbit crap and was thinking of selling seedlings and manure. I work at a feed mill and I have access to bags and I could use a sower if I wanted to. I think if I had it in a cut/open top IBC tote/crate (big ass plastic tanks in aluminum frames) and sold it by the lb BYOC. I could turn some quick capital to fund the garden.
I am looking to buy a chipper shredder so I can make those logs useful. The compost the shroom guy showed me was F'ing Rocket fuel! He said he just doesn't have time to deal with it. They grow for stores, restruants, and you can buy at the source. Choosing which 8" portabella you want is pretty sweet. I'm kinda wanting to figure out a true recipe for killer compost. Then I'll work on Vermi-compost. My friends manufacture Work Castings. I may try to sell their product as well.
I make very low wage but I love my job. My wife is a trooper, but I gotta try to bring in some $$$ and not be greedy.

living gardening said:

I have the Fulvic by them. I want to order the humic but it will have to wait.

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I think that you missed the point lol, not a big deal. Dr. Faust(BioAg) was talking about how to make humic/fulvic acid in your compost and it starts with woody material. Give that podcast a listen, it's all about saving money and not spending it. Most gardeners have to buy this product for the first couple of years until their own compost is producing. It's also why 2yr old leaf mold is the right stuff etc... I have other tips for composting to keep minerals high. I was using rock dust, but thanks to @Rurumo I realized that I am probably just adding arsenic and lead with my greensand and basalt. The guy that taught me how to grow is from Santa Cruz, Ca and he was trying to teach me to use companion plants in compost like comfrey, nettle, and borage. There are others too, but that is the basic list. Basically, these plants have enough calcium and iron to keep the phosphorus in check. I'm always sky high in P and very low in Fe and Mn. I imagine that other people's compost comes out about the same because I use oak leaves, which is very common. I don't know how much ground soil/environment will make a difference, but I like to keep it in mind before I claim that EVERYONE's compost will turn out exactly like mine. Everyone using Clackamas Coots recipe will not end up with the exact soil that Clack uses, he said that his worm castings will be different because he starts with 2yr old pure leaf mold.

I got ya.
I was wondering if there are any ways to speed up the decomp on that comp to go from the lighter woody product to a growing medium. The guy who I get it from showed me some broke down stuff and damn. That was what I was hoping for but I have already broke it up and spread it generously on my beds. It's been raining for the last three days and now I'm gonna cover the beds with some half rotted straw.
I would use leaves but I don't have an over abundence of them.
I'm trying to acquire a chipper/shredder for the shroom compost. would you add anything to that aside from trace dust? Kelp meal, fish meal, ect .?
Would you add woodchips maybe because they would breakdown super fast and add to you overall volume??
The leaf mold is more available in the hedgerow at the farm where my aunt dumps her leaves and twigs every year.
Again though, I want to get this figured out before diving down the vermi rabbit hole.

MustangStudFarm said:

I just sent in some of my JADAM liquid fertilizer for a Saturated Paste Test. I made it about a year ago and I have several 55gal drums full of it... One plant species is Lambsqurater, which is supposed to be high in manganese. My soil tests have been coming back low in Mn, so this was ideal for me, just curious how the test is going to come back. The other plant that I am using is "Tall Ragweed"(Pic) and it's all over my yard. The point of making JADAM is use invasive species and turn them into fertilizer. Also, I was watching the KNF certification video with Drake and he said that the best time to take the plant samples is the darkest time of day, which is 2-3am. He said that it's more common for people to gather plants before sunrise, but I'm a oddball...
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Did you ever get that saturated test back?