Guns and mmj in AZ-

I had read about a court challenge, or something a while back...

Does anyone know the current rules?


I got a new neighbor with a couple of pitbulls that are so wild, they're snarling, snapping, gnashing their teeth, trying to climb the 6 foot tall chain link fence to get at me and my kid on our way to the bus stop.

I got a little thing of pepper spray, but something tells me, if that fence comes down, those dogs wouldn't be stopped.

I'd like to pick up a cheap, used handgun, just in case...

But can't risk going to jail just for owning the weapon while also being a medical marijuana patient-

Don't show fear. Snap back as soon as they start with a very pronouned shut-up. Start walking towards the fence showing you mean business. Eventually they'll get the message. I've dealt with countless dogs. Your fear is what triggers them.

Dogs sense weakness, cowardism, fear, wrong doers, et cetera

You don't need a gun to defend against a dog, gezz... Show your teeth and bark back!!

HB DC said:

Dogs sense weakness, cowardism, fear, wrong doers, et cetera

You don't need a gun to defend against a dog, gezz... Stop peeking over your neighbors wall!

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Dogs are also just animals... That act on reaction and instinct...

Aye like the other guys said, you don't need a gun for a couple of dogs. You gotta rule your own yard man..

I have a german shepherd (my 3rd) that barks at my neighbors when they move the trashcans, and it sounds mean, but if he got out....he would run up on you, sniff, and jump up to lick your face. while that would be scary to most because he's so big he'd knock you over and likely scratch you with his big ass claws, it wouldn't be out of aggression. but when he's in the yard, he's a different dog, and he'll try to sound as big and mean as possible to make them go away.

I had a trainer explain to me once that when the mailman comes to deliver mail, the dog barks fiercely, and the man goes away. that dog is like "yea bitch...better leave!"
It doesn't understand that the mailman goes from house to house everyday, whether the dog barks or not. every time the dog barks, and the people leave, it reinforces that thinking and behavior in the dog.

Also IME multiple dogs tend to fuel each others excitement, thus escalating the growling and snarling. yelling and engaging them will likely escalate it further, just ignore them.
Dogs only respect the "Alpha". they're not your dogs, so they will never respect you. In their minds, they are faster and stronger and you are inferior and too close to their yard.

If you're worried about their escaping and your safety (and feel a weapon is necessary), go buy a 6" hunting blade at walmart. 20-30 bucks. it's just as deadly and easier to access than a gun (cause you probably won't keep one in the chamber, and that's one extra step) AND the MAN is not involved so you can rest easy there.

I used to wrestle and play real rough with my first shepherd in high school, and learned if you shove the meat part of your forearm into the back of the dogs mouth, they lose leverage in those jaw muscles and sometimes even gag and back down. yes you would get cut up, but if you know you're about to get bit, you need to control where you get bit. the arm is better than the throat or face where you could be killed or scarred for life, and the arm gives you some control in that situation so you could grab it and break its neck, back, legs whatever.

Sorry for acting like some dog expert (cause I'm not) but I think you would feel better once you realize you could kill any dog with only your hands. It made me more confident around dogs for sure. However it's MUCH less likely for anyone to take on multiple dogs without a weapon and come out unscathed. In your situation, especially since your child is a factor, I think you should carry a good fixed-blade knife and otherwise ignore them. The tough guy show they put on seems like normal dog behavior. most dogs in my neighborhood flip out anytime a mom and stroller goes by or a car door shuts.

To shed a little more light on my situation...


I'm pushing 50, and have owned and trained several breeds of dogs over the years, with my favorite being staffordshire bull terriers, or shorty pits.

The 2 dogs my neighbor has are both male, and they fight constantly.

When I walk up with my 5 year old son, they alternate fighting each other, and attacking the fence.

If anyone plans to rely on harsh words and unfrightened demeanor to save save a small child from a pair of attacking pitbulls, I'd have to call you quite the optimist

For sure. Personally though, I just would feel weird packing a gun at my kids bus stop. And if I noticed someone else packin at the bus stop, I'd have serious reservations about even sending my kid to school that day.

I don't know how cool your neighbor is, or if you guys talk at all, but maybe you could explain how his dogs' behavior makes you uneasy.
Tell him how you're concerned for the kid if they get out somehow, and that you've considered buying a handgun.
If he made a serious upgrade to his gate, would that help? maybe you could offer to go halves even? It's probably still cheaper than a gun. just another suggestion.
(my dogs also jump and paw at the gate which rattles/bounces and sounds like its about to fly right off its hinges, so I can relate there. and they HAVE bounced it open before. I keep a pad lock in it now, but it sounds brutal still)

I know most pit owners really love their pits.
They're also aware of the bad rep pits have and would likely want to avoid any attention.
I'm sure he doesn't want his dogs shot any more than you'd want to be in a position to have to shoot them.

I mean if you came to me and said my shepherd made you feel threatened to the point that you've considered carrying a gun, and then mentioned the gate, I'd totally buy the gate.
Oh I'd probably feel like "jeez my neighbor just buttonholed me into spending 2-300 bucks at home depot" but the alternative would be
1. my dog is dead or needs to be put down
2. my neighbor hates me, his child is traumatized and he may be scared of dogs for the rest of his life, and it's my fault.
3. my neighbors may have been injured in the incident, which means there could be a lawsuit.
4. serious fines/ possibly jail time, police involvement for sure (even HOA's flip out sometimes=eviction)
5. a phone call to my wife saying "our dog got out and attacked a 50 year old man, while with his 5 year old son, and was subsequently shot. Soooo...channel 3 is gonna come out tonight and do an interview with us. Isn't that great hon? We'll be on TV!!! " A RESOUNDING EFF NOOOO! I don't want any of those

a smart pit owner/large breed owner would realize he needs to keep everyone happy as far as his dog is concerned, or the whole world could turn on him. Is he smart?

I hope this was helpful and I hope everything works out for the best man, cheers

Get one of these.....and when they bark at you turn it on.....I haven't met a dog that doesn't get scared by it......

Redbird1223 said:

5. a phone call to my wife saying "our dog got out and attacked a 50 year old man, while with his 5 year old son, and was subsequently shot. Soooo...channel 3 is gonna come out tonight and do an interview with us. Isn't that great hon? We'll be on TV!!! " A RESOUNDING EFF NOOOO! I don't want any of those

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A smart dog owner wouldn't let 2 male pitbulls fight in their yard...


http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/24330089/arizona-man-fatally-mauled-by-dog-was-teacher


I saw the guy outside, and asked him if he would mind if I tried to make friends with the dogs, give them a treat maybe. He told me to leave his dogs alone, and went inside.


I feel ya on someone openly displaying a firearm at the bus stop.

I don't really feel much safer knowing Stephen Segal and his band of vigilante justice volunteers could be patrolling my son's school.

But they aren't breaking any laws-


Is it fair for me to be breaking the law as a mmj patient, carrying a concealed handgun to protect me and my family weather you deem it necessary or not... while the pain pill popping alcohol consumer next door that owns the dangerous dogs can legally open carry a hog leg at the bus stop that scares guys like you into keeping your kid home from school?

jcdws602 said:

Get one of these.....and when they bark at you turn it on.....I haven't met a dog that doesn't get scared by it......

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I wonder if that sucker is strong enough to keep a charging pitbull from biting?

I saw the guy outside, and asked him if he would mind if I tried to make friends with the dogs, give them a treat maybe. He told me to leave his dogs alone, and went inside.

JEEZ! Well that answers that! What a douche bag. I'm sorry


I feel ya on someone openly displaying a firearm at the bus stop.

I don't really feel much safer knowing Stephen Segal and his band of vigilante justice volunteers could be patrolling my son's school.

But they aren't breaking any laws-


Is it fair for me to be breaking the law as a mmj patient, carrying a concealed handgun to protect me and my family weather you deem it necessary or not... while the pain pill popping alcohol consumer next door that owns the dangerous dogs can legally open carry a hog leg at the bus stop that scares guys like you into keeping your kid home from school?

Let me clarify that I wasn't trying to say it's not necessary or unfair, just trying to help explore and weigh more options.

If I ever felt my son or daughter was in immediate danger, no one's telling me a GOD DAMN THING! I'll do whatever I FEEL I need to do to handle that. So if YOU feel like a gun is the most efficient and reliable way to protect you and yours, as a parent I totally get that, and I'm not judging. I'm sorry if I came off that way.

Some of these morons would argue we're breaking the law as patients, firearm or not, so whatever. I'd rather stand next to an armed hippie/stoner than an armed anyone else! LOL
I'm not sure you mentioned the gun would be concealed. If I never saw you with a gun, then I'd have no way to know and no concerns.
but the guy that has a "sidearm" on full display around a bunch of 7 year old kids (and one of mine) at 7 am ... scares guys like me into questioning the mental state of "Captain Saves The Day" and the safety of my kid. With the exception of cops and security guards also putting their kids on the bus, that doesn't bother me. It's part of the uniform and for work.

Sure they aren't breaking any laws. No one's ever breaking the law...until they do. shit goes sideways, suddenly it's a different story.
I was really just trying to make a point (irrelevant to you since you brought up concealment) of how people with weapons around my kids makes me jumpy.
I didn't want a gun in the house with the kids, so we got a big bad-ass dog.
I wouldn't be breaking any laws if I brought my 110 lbs shepherd out to the bus stop everyday, but I know it would make all the other parents nervous because he's intimidating, potentially dangerous, and unnecessary. and they all bring their own yappy little terriers anyway, lol. lunchables

anyway man, I hope this situation all works out so you can rest easy and feel safe. goodnight

OP; you might read this for some insight to your question. https://www.rollitup.org/arizona-patients/727281-prop-203-firearms.html

Ill jump on the wagon too, I have several spitbulls (yes I did that on purpose) and they look nastier than they are. Please don't shoot someone's family member. =;( In an emergency a swift kick in the nose and a loud scary person will send the dog quicker than kids breaking china.

Redbird1223 said:

Let me clarify that I wasn't trying to say it's not necessary or unfair, just trying to help explore and weigh more options.

If I ever felt my son or daughter was in immediate danger, no one's telling me a GOD DAMN THING! I'll do whatever I FEEL I need to do to handle that. So if YOU feel like a gun is the most efficient and reliable way to protect you and yours, as a parent I totally get that, and I'm not judging. I'm sorry if I came off that way.

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No apologies necessary.

I just drive him the 3 blocks to the bus stop, and quit carrying a gun a long time ago. I used to pack all the time, until got into a scuffle with a drunk "friend" and the way it all went down, made me think pretty hard about things.

First thing, is the gun gonna go off, while I'm rolling around on the ground wrestling?
Is the gun gonna fall out of it's holster, and get picked up by someone else?
Is some stranger gonna see the gun, and pull their own weapon?
I never thought about pulling it out, since I didn't want to use it, and decided it just wasn't a good idea for me to carry a gun around all the time.




But-


MMJ shouldn't prevent citizens from their constitutional right to bear arms if they feel they need to.

Buy an ASP collapsable baton. A tap on the head can crack a skull. A hard hit will penetrate. Practice extending it. Maybe lube it with silicone so it reliably extends. It's only 21-24" long. Not a large margin of safety. But, if you can't carry a gun.... it's the best you can do. Offer your left arm -- and wind up with your right.

I would probably also carry a knife in case anything goes wrong. You'll get more mangled than the initial bite (to target with the baton). But, at that proximity, a knife through the eye, across the throat.

Regarding pits, I had an encounter in my alley around 2006. I heard dogs barking at my neighbor's gate. I went to see what was happening. Saw too dogs in the alley barking at the dogs in the yard. I called them to me in a happy, loving voice. (I'm a big dog lover, never met a dangerous dog.). OMG! These two dogs targeted me. They came at me low, separated, eyeing my lower legs. I made myself big and in a deep voice yelled "get out of here! No!" That held them back a bit.

Fortunately for me a neighbor behind me opened her gate to see what was happening. I yelled "don't come out here, call 911." I had enough distraction to get inside my gate. I called 911. She did. We learned later the dogs had been abandoned by someone who rented a nearby house. Left without food for days, they got out and were insane with "pack behavior" and on the hunt for food.

If I had a gun on me, I would have shot both to kill. I definitely feared for my life. It wasn't their fault they were abandoned. Not all pits are dangerous psychos just waiting to trigger. But, those two were a menace. I personally called the humane society to strongly protest any attempt to offer those dogs for adoption. I threatened that I had a record of the phone call. If either of those dogs harmed someone and I learned of it, I would swear on oath that I warned the county of the danger they posed. I.e., increased liability to the county for allowing dangerous dogs (they were put on notice by me) to be adopted. I felt bad that I may have been the only reason they were put to sleep. But.... sometimes we have to do hard things. If anyone should feel bad it was the owners who abandoned those dogs (and probably never socialized them to begin with).

Anyway, back to the ASP police baton. I bought one because I had two rotts. Often, neighborhood dogs would be loose and charge my dogs. I knew that (like pits), rotts have a reputation. I felt it would be better for me to take the rap for hurting a dog than one of my dogs being a "bad, vicious rottweiler." So, I carried the ASP whenever I walked my dogs and was prepared to use it. I wasn't going to go for the cracked skull. Just across the neck, rump, etc. A cracked rib if necessary.

But, it will definitely do damage with minimal force. It's a dangerous weapon.

Good luck. You might try calling the nearest pit bull rescue organization and explain your concerns. Ask if there's anything they can do to help you. They don't like the negative stigma. I'm sure they'd like to prevent another media event before it happens. (You might want to leave out the part that you're prepared to go Rambo on them. You probably want to present yourself as helpless.).

Just buy a gun and dont tell anyone.. Shoot those fucking dogs if they get out and cause harm, the police shoot aggressive dogs. One of those dogs can kill your son.

I am dealing with a very similar situation we have a neighbor with two German Shepard's that they said they had trained as attack dogs. The neighbors have told us that their dogs will bite anyone that comes in their yard and to keep our hands off the fence cause they will bite. Recently their dogs just decided to jump their fence and almost got my niece in the backyard. I went over to the neighbors and let them know this is not ok and we will be calling animal control if they do not get in control of their dogs to which they took offense like I was being rude and this was my fault. I am literally being forced to carry a weapon while watching my niece play in our own backyard. These are the kind of dog owners who give responsible owners a bad name. I hope that nothing ever happens I would never want to take the dogs life (especially cause this is their owners fault not theirs) but wouldn't think twice about it with my niece in danger. I feel your pain Pharma good luck with your situation

that your neighbors KNOW their dogs are attack trained just opens a can of liability worms. If you know your dog will bite is enough and a Beware of the Dog sign reaffirms that knowledge.