Guns and Growing.

NewGrowth said:

You deny that guns are deadly? Even accidently deadly?

Come on these are silly arguments guys. I gun is a weapon manufactured to kill or maim a living target. Most often that target is human unfortunately. However removing the "tool" or weapon from someone will not effect their desire for violence. The US is the arms dealer to the world because the human race has an insatiable lust for violence.

You don't have to twist the truth.

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We aren't trying to twist the truth, but you will come up with cons as much as we will come up with pros, like you said guns are here to stay.

BCtrippin said:

I didnt say guns are not deadly. Anything can be deadly. I was very clear when I said an gun doesnt load itself. Any accidental death was because of negligence by the owner or user of the firearm. Accidents can and do happen when morons leave their weapons loaded and not locked up.

It doesnt change my possition on this. I still strongly believe guns are not the problem, Its still people. Some poeple are idiots and build up bad stereotypes about guns and gun owners.

I think we all know the stereotypes about stoners and growers are BS.

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I with you there BC. People are the problem.

LostInSpace... said:

Where I am we are already denied of semi-autos/pump/self-loading, but is it right to say you can have one but not the other?

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Yes, it absolutely is. There is no, I repeat NO use EVER for a gun with multiple bullets. Where I come from laws were recently laxed and I believe you can now have a CWP. Gun show regulation is so relaxed in Pennsylvania that I grew up in high school with people trading allowance for Uzis, no exaggeration.

Gamberro said:

Yes, it absolutely is. There is no, I repeat NO use EVER for a gun with multiple bullets. Where I come from laws were recently laxed and I believe you can now have a CWP. Gun show regulation is so relaxed in Pennsylvania that I grew up in high school with people trading allowance for Uzis, no exaggeration.

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I cant comment on registration and the like in the US. I do think that you should have to qualify for a license to own a firearm, but I'm not sure I understand the second amendment...

BCtrippin said:

So what about a bow and arrow? Or a cross bow? Should we be outlawing archery now too?

What about a fish club? Its designed to kill. Should stores stop selling them?


It doesnt matter if its a gun or a knife or a stick, Its the person whos wielding it. A gun is a tool. If your job is a police officer, or if your in the army your firearm the tool of the trade.

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I never said we should outlaw anything but I'm tired of pro-gun people twisting the truth. The fact is this: The arms industry is incredibly powerful and lobbies continuously pressure congress, even bribe officials.

I own a gun myself however I respect the fact that it is a weapon. If I owned a crossbow I would also respect it as a weapon.

A gun however is an incredibly deadly tool and should never be advertised or treated otherwise.

So yes some control is needed, I really don't want my neighbor to own a RPG. There should also be strict monitoring of so called 'assault' weapons, I think it is fine if law abiding people want to own them but they should be required to learn to safely use them, have them registered, and lock them up.

NewGrowth said:

I never said we should outlaw anything but I'm tired of pro-gun people twisting the truth. The fact is this: The arms industry is incredibly powerful and lobbies continuously pressure congress, even bribe officials.

I own a gun myself however I respect the fact that it is a weapon. If I owned a crossbow I would also respect it as a weapon.

A gun however is an incredibly deadly tool and should never be advertised or treated otherwise.

So yes some control is needed, I really don't want my neighbor to own a RPG. There should also be strict monitoring of so called 'assault' weapons, I think it is fine if law abiding people want to own them but they should be required to learn to safely use them, have them registered, and lock them up.

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I'm happy to agree with you on that..

People are the problem. What you don't understand is, I agree, people ARE the problem. But it's not some teeny minority. The majority of people are stupid. In fact, it's not just stupid people. Perfectly sane people, put in a highly emotional situation, will do drastic things, and they should not have the option of merely pushing a button to change their problems- least of all on other people.

LostInSpace... said:

I'm happy to agree with on that..

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Then stop trying to convince people that guns are tools. I would lend you my screwdriver before I would let you borrow my gun

Gamberro said:

People are the problem. What you don't understand is, I agree, people ARE the problem. But it's not some teeny minority. The majority of people are stupid. In fact, it's not just stupid people. Perfectly sane people, put in a highly emotional situation, will do drastic things, and they should not have the option of merely pushing a button to change their problems- least of all on other people.

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Can't fight the majority. People are as violent as they are compassionate and loving. This is life

in cali. you will get charged with an enhancement. heres how it works.its called ....commission of a crime while in posession of a fire arm. heres the penalties. gun=5yrs loaded gun=10yrs discharged during crime=15yrs shooting someone=20yrs killing someone during crime with a gun=25-life.
i dont know the law in your state but thats it here. no matter what the police will think you intend on using your guns to protect an illegal weed harvest so what do you think theyll do if you got busted

NewGrowth said:

Then stop trying to convince people that guns are tools. I would lend you my screwdriver before I would let you borrow my gun

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Hang on a second, you just said a gun was a tool. And I'm not trying to convice anyone anything. Just having a chat. Jeez you make it sound like I'm trying to convert peoples religion...

Gamberro said:

Apparently you have not acquainted yourself with many of the 99.99% of idiots and psychopaths that people this planet.

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Actually I am. Thats why I would feel a lot safer knowing I can legally own and purchase firearms to protect myself or my family if any of these lunatics decides to come to my house.

I am NOT saying to put guns in the hands on unlicensed, unworthy people. People with criminal records cant get their firearms license and I want it to stay that way.

Im just as worried about unlicensed firearm owners as the next guy. But I would feel a bit safer if I knew my neighbour was a legal gun owner who went through all the process of getting licensed legally. Anyone who has gone through the process of getting their firearms license has passed extensive background and criminal record checks.

NewGrowth said:

I never said we should outlaw anything but I'm tired of pro-gun people twisting the truth. The fact is this: The arms industry is incredibly powerful and lobbies continuously pressure congress, even bribe officials.

I own a gun myself however I respect the fact that it is a weapon. If I owned a crossbow I would also respect it as a weapon.

A gun however is an incredibly deadly tool and should never be advertised or treated otherwise.

So yes some control is needed, I really don't want my neighbor to own a RPG. There should also be strict monitoring of so called 'assault' weapons, I think it is fine if law abiding people want to own them but they should be required to learn to safely use them, have them registered, and lock them up.

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I agree totally with you here. I think anyone who owns a firearm NEEDS to respect the fact that it is a firearm. I have been very clear in what I think a responsible firearm owner is, and I ONLY think that responsible owners who take the time to keep their firearms safe deserve to own guns.

I dont think any of us are against gun control, If anything there should be more gun control.

BCtrippin said:

I dont think any of us are against gun control, If anything there should be more gun control.

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Good gun control means you can hit your intended target...

Gamberro said:

People are the problem. What you don't understand is, I agree, people ARE the problem. But it's not some teeny minority. The majority of people are stupid. In fact, it's not just stupid people. Perfectly sane people, put in a highly emotional situation, will do drastic things, and they should not have the option of merely pushing a button to change their problems- least of all on other people.

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I dont know where you live. No one wants to give the majority of people guns.

And I would think that anyone who is willing to change their problems with a gun, isnt going to just do nothing if they dont have a firearm. Chances are if they would do it with a gun, they will do it with a knife, a car, their hands..... or any of the other million ways to kill someone.

BCtrippin said:

Im just as worried about unlicensed firearm owners as the next guy. But I would feel a bit safer if I knew my neighbour was a legal gun owner who went through all the process of getting licensed legally. Anyone who has gone through the process of getting their firearms license has passed extensive background and criminal record checks.

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Background checks are great but it's never too late to start.
I'm a pretty peaceful guy but I can think of more than one occasion where, given a gun, I would probably have used it.

Gamberro said:

Background checks are great but it's never too late to start.
I'm a pretty peaceful guy but I can think of more than one occasion where, given a gun, I would probably have used it.

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And are you a licensed owner? If not would you even be able to get your license?

BCtrippin said:

I dont know where you live. No one wants to give the majority of people guns.

And I would think that anyone who is willing to change their problems with a gun, isnt going to just do nothing if they dont have a firearm. Chances are if they would do it with a gun, they will do it with a knife, a car, their hands..... or any of the other million ways to kill someone.

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The first part of what you said, incorrect. Current regulations mean the vast majority of people could legally own a gun if they really wanted to. There is no litmus test.

The second part, much more incorrect. Giving people a button takes all the humanity out of it. It takes much, much more resolve to kill someone with anything besides a gun. I won't go into detail but I am a past gang member and have been around death and killing for a long time.

In the RDG, the psychos that get the big respect kill with machetes or knives, gut their victims. It's a common saying that black people kill with guns because they care about people, Latinos kill with knives because they just don't give a fuck.

BCtrippin said:

And are you a licensed owner? If not would you even be able to get your license?

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No, although I've been in possession of firearms in the past and it was technically legal. And yes, I have nothing that would keep me from acquiring a license.

Gamberro said:

The first part of what you said, incorrect. Current regulations mean the vast majority of people could legally own a gun if they really wanted to. There is no litmus test.

The second part, much more incorrect. Giving people a button takes all the humanity out of it. It takes much, much more resolve to kill someone with anything besides a gun. I won't go into detail but I am a past gang member and have been around death and killing for a long time.

In the RDG, the psychos that get the big respect kill with machetes or knives, gut their victims. It's a common saying that black people kill with guns because they care about people, Latinos kill with knives because they just don't give a fuck.

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.....No offense, but stereotyping doesn't help anyone.

Your willing to throw large amounts of people into one group and just assume they all react the same.

I dont know where you live, but in Canada and the rest of the world the majority of people cant go out and get a firearms license. You need to have a clean record.


Gang members that kill people with guns are not legal firearm owners, they use stolen weapons. People who kill with knives dont always use a knife because they are crazy, maybe they just cant get a gun.

If guns didnt exist, these same gangbangers would be using bow and arrows or crossbows or some other weapon to kill. Just because it takes less humanity to kill with a gun doesnt mean that person wouldnt kill without the gun.

The problem in gang situations is Peer pressure and Under education. Not guns. The gangbangers that do survive and grow up dont wanna be in gangs, they start learning about the real world and realize theres a better way, and you dont have to be in a gang to get ahead in life.


Everyone seems to think if guns didnt exist that murder rates would drop. Its just not going to happen. There has always been hatred in this world, and there will always be people who hate other people.

Second Amendment statement about it being qualified and regulated via the militia clause.

True and False ..

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second amendment clearly states that a 'well regulated Militia' is 'necessary to the security of a free State.' These are two clauses that provide the purpose of the second amendment.

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

'the right of the people' is the 'protection' clause that is what the bill of rights is all about. The bill of rights does not suspend any freedoms it guarantees freedoms to the people.

Notice it's worded 'the right of the people' not 'the right of the state' or 'the right of the militia.' It's THE PEOPLE that are the subject of the sentence. There's your grammar lesson for the day.

The first major Second Amendment court case in the lat 1800's was about a man in New York who carried a concealed weapon, a blade concealed in a walking stick. The Supreme court determined that militia applied to any 'white male between the ages of 15 and 45.' Sorry this was the 1800's.... It also determined that 'arms' was to be defined as 'weapons applicable to a military purpose.'

Later in the 1960's and 1980's the National Firearms Act reversed these decisions, unconstitutionally I might add, by qualifying the second amendment as 'for sporting purposes' (Thanks NRA you rat bastards.)

This year in Heller vs. DC, it was determined that no state can determine if a person has a right to own a weapon, but soft of half assed with really dumb definitions.

So, being a constitutionalist I have to say that I want to own RPG's, Select Fire, and hell even a grenade or two. However the draconian laws that exist firmly believe that 'we the people' are not capable of responsibility.

Could that be because of the 'New Deal' inacted in the 30's that was a total affront to Darwinism? Without going into crazy detail, the New Deal basically created the United States as a welfare country. If you can't provide for yourself don't worry those who do provide for themselves will provide for you via taxes filtered to welfare.

So an irresponsible person, who can't feed their own family, is paid out of our taxes so they can live .... AND BREED more irresponsible people. That's why it's an afront to Darwinism.

Call me cold hearted, but if you chose to drop out of school, refuse to work for a living, don't have the intellectual capabilities to 'think creatively' for profit/survival, then you have no right to survive in my opinion.

The welfare state has continued to grow and grow and grow until it's utterly out of control. With FICA, SS, medicare/medicaid, and income tax I'm losing almost 30% of my paycheck. So if I made the 'median' income in the US my gross would be $40,000 a year, with a take home of roughly $28,000. The poverty level at current cost of living is at $29,000 and below. So anyone in the 'median' bracket is technically in poverty, yet they make too much to qualify for government assistance.

So those who 'can and do' are punished and taxed to provide for those who 'can't or won't.' Then the question is posed here, 'Why are there so many idiots?'

The answer is right in front of you. We argued with Darwinism and won. We have allowed, for 70 years, not only the propogation of lesser genetics but the excessive propagation of lesser genetics. The more brats you squeeze out the more welfare you get. Do you clone your plants that have little to no vigor and take the nutes away from your healthy vigorous mother plants in favor of nursing the weak plants? If you do I bet your yields and highs really suck.

Then we have cries for 'Universal Healthcare' in the US so now we won't even let inferior genetics die of natural causes, now we tax payers are crying for the elongation of the inferior genetics lives which will naturally allow them to breed MORE.

All I have to say is watch the first 10 minutes of 'Idiocracy.' The rest of the show sucks, but the first 10 minutes is VERY accurate. If you do sit through the rest of it, ponder how long it will be before we're watering our weed with Gatorade. "Electrolytes good because corporations tell us so, ugh!"

Dumb gun owner kills himself = Darwinism at work

Smart gun owner defends his family from violent criminal = Darwinism at work

Gun legislation = violent criminals knowing their pool of prey just got much larger = anti-Darwinism as they pick off those who are capable and intelligent and follow the law.

The only legislation I support is legislation that would make Darwinism law. Let the weak perish at their own incompetence.

-RT76