growing retrospective. advice wanted

pulpoinspace

Well-Known Member
warning: wall of text. tl/dr i do okay but i know people here could help me do better

its been just over a year since i started growing indoors. recently i've put a lot into this hobby and i want to be the best grower I can be. So I will expose myself to the flame and see if I come out any better for it.

i've had moderate success. but i feel there is room for improvement. for the record, i grow under 400w LEDs (currently QB96Ev2 but also use VERO29C cob leds) and often harvest in the 300's. there are still a few concepts i don't understand and i figured i would write out a detailed explanation of my op and anyone and everyone with spare time and a kind soul can feel free to post and critique where they think i am making mistakes or taking unnecessary steps. i am seeking advice about my growing practices, as well as altering the set-up, however please don't just say things like "get a bigger tent". i will be doing that when i have more space in January. also not particularly interested in true hydro at this point. I would consider an inert medium, drain to waste, but I'm not keen on having any large reservoirs since i rent a townhome.

i'm currently flowering in a 3x3.
i use 2 plants in 5 gal fabric pots
i veg for ~3 1/2 weeks.
here are the girls at day 20 of flower: IMG_1586.JPG

now heres where a lot of my confusions/questions come in:

my grow medium is roots organic original potting soil. i have heard different things about this soil. some say it is super hot. i've heard some say its nearly inert. i just treat it like normal potting soil. Here are the ingredients for reference.

Ingredients: Perlite, Coco Fiber, Peat Moss, Composted Forest Material, Pumice, Worm Castings, Bat Guano, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Fish Bone Meal, Kelp Meal, and Greensand

I use it fo everything from seedlings to flowering plants. Works for me, that okay? I give the plants plain tap water when they are first put into the soil, but then I immediately start feeding nutrients at subsequent waterings. Is this unnecessary? Does this soil actually have the fertilizers in it to get me through to flowering? Their website says begin feeding 10-21 days after transplant. In my mind I've always thought better to feed closer to the 10 days. I've rarely seen signs of nutrient toxicity or lockouts on my plants. I know I could test this easily by not feeding a plant but since I use my whole harvest as medicines I don't want to do experiments on a system that is working for me right now.

watering: this medium. I just treat it as normal I let it get completely dry and then I water it to run off. However, I've seen people say to treat it more like coco and water it every day. are they confused or am i?

nutes: i use house and garden soil a + b. multi-zen in veg and bud-xl in flower. mixed in water, following directions. i give a little nutes at every watering, 1/4 dosage. but i never give plain water. I've heard very experienced growers say this is wrong. And that i should feed->water->water. So am I using too strong of a nutrient solution? Also, I know I could try a 1-ingredient nutrient like MEGACROP and I will once this is gone but it's lasted me the year. I also do like the quality of the product it delivers. If that's even related.

and pH: this is where i've gotten most confused because so many people insist that you don't need to pH in soil because of the things in it like oyster-shell lime and dolomite lime that will buffer the pH to proper levels as long as the water is not wildly out of pH. First of all, none of these ingredients are listed for Roots Organic Original. Can someone tell me which ingredients in it are buffering pH? I mostly see fertilizers? Using the color changing drops my tap water is in the 8.5+ range. So i put some pH down with my nutrient solution and try to bring it to just below ~6.5. Is this unnecessary?

Well, if you read it all, congratulations you now have my undying friendship.

If you have any advice, or experience with this medium, or a different medium to suggest, or anything at all, feel free to post! Even new growers! Even if it's just something you've heard. Throw it out there!

Cheers!

:)
 
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Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Stop phing in soil, firstly it has nowt all to do with the fertilizers potential to acidify your soil and secondly water has not much of anything thats gonna change your soil, pretty weak buffer too.
 

pulpoinspace

Well-Known Member
Stop phing in soil, firstly it has nowt all to do with the fertilizers potential to acidify your soil and secondly water has not much of anything thats gonna change your soil, pretty weak buffer too.
Thank you kindly for your reply Kingrow1.

i'm just not sure i follow. I've seen other soils with ingredients specifically stated they are in there for pH adjustment. I don't see any of these ingredients in my soil. Could you please explain once more, perhaps as you would to a child(LOL). Horticulture was never my field I am a restaurant manager and I haven't been at this too long yet.
 
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Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
There should be a calcium buffer, maybe the bat guano or some un listed lime.

Ignore all ph, if plants grow its obviously fine, cleverer people than us make soils, if you adjust it your basically disagreeing with stuff above your pay grade.
 

pulpoinspace

Well-Known Member
Interesting I will look into that. Thank you for the knowledge. What damages if any do you think I've done by adding a 2ml pH Down per gallon of water since the beginning of time?

:wall:

Coincidentally, I have three plants vegging right now. Just left seedling stage. Perfect time for an experiment. One of them will receive NO PH adjustments whatsoever,
 

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
do you use organic nutes? or is it okay to mix synthetic nutes with organic nutes / microbes
I’ve used and still on occasion use roots soil greenfields and original. Never ph anything when using it stated feeding a month in usually I would use their dry nutes and simply top dress accordingly. They even state you don’t have to ph your water or feed. I’ve used promix bx for a long time and still use it as my base for my water only soil never ph anything that went into promix either.
 

pulpoinspace

Well-Known Member
I actually reached out to Bruce at Aurora and he gave me some info.

He says their soils do come pH buffered but with regular waterings the buffers can be depleted.

If that happens he recommends a top dress of their product "Elemental" which has calcitic lime, 1 tsp per gallon of soil to replenish the buffer. Not sure that is a better/cheaper/more efficient solution than just pH my feed solution? But maybe? I'm sure both are unnecessary.

Thanks again for the info guys.

:)
 
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I actually reached out to Bruce at Aurora and he gave me some info.

He says their soils do come pH buffered but with regular waterings the buffers can be depleted.

He recommends a top dress of their product "Elemental" which has calcitic lime, 1 tsp per gallon of soil to replenish the buffer. Not sure that is a better/cheaper/more efficient solution than just pH my feed solution? But maybe? I'm sure both are unnecessary.

Thanks again for the info guys.

:)
I still ph in good nutrient rich soil. Keep track of it and when you see a problem, I bet your ph has been affected. Luck
 

primobozo

Well-Known Member
Check the runoff after you water, also should check tds, (Total disolved solids)
Those two things, should tell you everything you need to know. You can buy both test pens for under $50.00
I got both of them for around $25.00.
Good luck, and to quote a much more experienced grower, " don't love your plants to death. Alot of times, people want to over think things. It will do fine with very little input from you, just cover the basics, keep an eye out for problems, and most importantly use the KISS rule. Keep it simple stupid. You'll be fine. Good luck with your grows!
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
I actually reached out to Bruce at Aurora and he gave me some info.

He says their soils do come pH buffered but with regular waterings the buffers can be depleted.

If that happens he recommends a top dress of their product "Elemental" which has calcitic lime, 1 tsp per gallon of soil to replenish the buffer. Not sure that is a better/cheaper/more efficient solution than just pH my feed solution? But maybe? I'm sure both are unnecessary.

Thanks again for the info guys.

:)
Ya buffers are depleted in any soil but we grow short season crops with several repots so not an issue but a good chance to sell you an un-needed product :-)
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Check the runoff after you water, also should check tds, (Total disolved solids)
Those two things, should tell you everything you need to know. You can buy both test pens for under $50.00
I got both of them for around $25.00.
Good luck, and to quote a much more experienced grower, " don't love your plants to death. Alot of times, people want to over think things. It will do fine with very little input from you, just cover the basics, keep an eye out for problems, and most importantly use the KISS rule. Keep it simple stupid. You'll be fine. Good luck with your grows!
No and your kinda contradicting the idea of kiss...
 

primobozo

Well-Known Member
No and your kinda contradicting the idea of kiss...
Checking 2 things to know what your plants are needing, isn't that dam hard if you're an educated individual, like Americans. I don't know why you're so butt hurt, but at least the smoke I grow don't have me criticizing others, simply because of nationality. If you want me to, I could send you some good smoke, and then you might not be pissed at the world because of where you were born.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Checking 2 things to know what your plants are needing, isn't that dam hard if you're an educated individual, like Americans. I don't know why you're so butt hurt, but at least the smoke I grow don't have me criticizing others, simply because of nationality. If you want me to, I could send you some good smoke, and then you might not be pissed at the world because of where you were born.
Look if you cant do it without ph'ing then your waaay off what all the other soil growers are achieving here.

I cant make the point any clearer, what your doing is inaccurate and broscience.

Only a proper soil lab test is accurate :-)
 

primobozo

Well-Known Member
2018-11-05 20.46.42.png This might help you out OP. Knowing the PH is important as well as what your plants are actually using, as far as nutrients go. Don't give them more than they need and you'll do great.
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
No point chasing PH in soil.

OP your plant looks nice and healthy so im not sure what you would like advice on? Are you perhaps looking to try a different medium? If so then might I suggest a simple hydro like Hempy or a flood and drain system?
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Interesting I will look into that. Thank you for the knowledge. What damages if any do you think I've done by adding a 2ml pH Down per gallon of water since the beginning of time?

:wall:
Nothing really.. Adjusting the solution pH might be the thing to do if you have 1.5 points low or high...Like if your pre use level is 5 or less or 8 or higher.....More so for the lower!

Soil, hmm, soil.....Did you know that once the plant gets in the soil. The plant and the soil will co-operate with each other and the plant will set a pH value in that soil that IT likes?Differing plants like some differing pH values.....
For our plant.....around 6.5 or so in veg. And in bloom, about 6.7
Nutrients are available at differing pH values.
In nature (outdoors) and in your pot....When you water, the soil's pH drops by around 1 whole point.... As that soil dry's back out. The pH will rise back to the "normal" value. This is natures way of being such nutrient is available in good ratio's to the plant.

Now you can see, and begin to understand, how and why a pH imbalance can quickly have bad influence on plant growth. To the point of actually blocking proper nutrition...

Over watering and soil remaining damp for extended periods.....Can be a path to low pH soil values and is one of the leading causes of nutrient lock outs by pH value of soil...Ca, P, and some other micro's are first to fall to this...

Low pH is worse then high pH but in hydro, High can be just as easy a problem to have, in fact easier... high is not good either!
 
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