"GOP to Detroit: Drop Dead!"

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
The Toyota Republicans
by Patrick J. Buchanan

12/16/2008
"GOP to Detroit: Drop Dead!"
So may have read the headline Friday, had not President Bush stepped in to save GM, Ford and Chrysler, which Senate Republicans had just voted to send to the knacker's yard.


What are Republicans thinking of, pulling the plug, at Christmas, on GM, risking swift death for the greatest manufacturing company in American history, a strategic asset and pillar of the U.S. economy.



The $14 billion loan to the Big Three that Republican senators filibustered to death is just 2 percent of the $700 billion the Senate voted to bail out Wall Street. Having gone along with bailouts of Bear Stearns, AIG, Fannie, Freddie and CitiGroup, why refuse a reprieve to an industry upon which millions of the best blue-collar jobs in America depend?

In a good year, Americans buy 17 million cars. A more populous EU probably buys as many. Three billion people in India, Southeast Asia and China, four times as many people as there are in the EU and United States, are moving toward the middle class. They, too, will be wanting cars. And millions of them love American cars.

Is the Republican Party so fanatic in its ideology that, rather than sin against a commandment of Milton Friedman, it is willing to see America written forever out of this fantastic market, let millions of jobs vanish and write off the industrial Midwest?



So it would seem. "Companies fail every day, and others take their place," said Sen. Richard Shelby on "Face the Nation."
Presumably, the companies that will "take their place," when GM, Ford and Chrysler die, are German, Japanese or Korean, like the ones lured into Shelby's state of Alabama, with the bait of subsidies free-market Republicans are supposed to abhor.


In 1993, Alabama put together a $258 million package to bring a Mercedes plant in. In 1999, Honda was offered $158 million to build a plant there. In 2002, Alabama won a Hyundai plant by offering a $252 million subsidy.



"We have a number of profitable automakers in America, and they should not be disadvantaged for making wise business decisions while failure is rewarded," says Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina.
DeMint is referring to "profitable automakers" like BMW, which sited a plant in Spartanburg, after South Carolina offered the Germans a $150 million subsidy and $80 million to expand.



Be it BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi or Hyundai, the South has become a sanctuary for foreign assembly plants, for which Southern states have been paying subsidies.



Fine. But why this "Let-them-eat-cake!" coldness toward U.S. auto companies? General Motors employs more workers than all these foreign plants combined. And, unlike Mitsubishi, General Motors didn't bomb Pearl Harbor.


Do these Southern senators understand why the foreign automakers suddenly up and decided to build plants in the United States?
It was the economic nationalism of Ronald Reagan.



When an icon of American industry, Harley-Davidson, was being run out of business by cutthroat Japanese dumping of big bikes to kill the "Harley Hog," Reagan slapped 50 percent tariffs on their motorcycles and imposed quotas on imported Japanese cars. Message to Tokyo. If you folks want to keep selling cars here, start building them here.
Fear of Reaganism brought those foreign automakers, lickety-split, to America's shores, not any love of Southern cooking.



Do the Republicans not yet understand how they lost the New Majority coalition that gave them three landslides and five victories in six presidential races from 1968 to 1988? Do they not know why the Reagan Democrats in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan are going home?
The Republican Party gave their jobs away!



How? By telling U.S. manufacturers they could shut plants here, get rid of their U.S. workers, build factories in Mexico, Asia or China, and ship their products back, free of charge.



Republican globalists gave U.S. manufacturers every incentive to go abroad and take their jobs with them, the jobs of Middle America.
And, for 30 years, that is what U.S. manufacturers have done, have been forced to do, as their competitors closed down and moved their plants abroad in search of low-wage Third World labor.



It's Herbert Hoover time in here, Vice President Cheney is said to have told the Senate Republicans -- as they prepared to march out onto the floor and turn thumbs down on any reprieve for General Motors.



In today's world, America faces nationalistic trade rivals who manipulate currencies, employ nontariff barriers, subsidize their manufacturers, rebate value-added taxes on exports to us and impose value-added taxes on imports from us, all to capture our markets and kill our great companies. And we have a Republican Party blissfully ignorant that we live in a world of us or them. It doesn't even know who "us" is.
We need a new team on the field and a new coach who believes with Vince Lombardi that "winning isn't everything. It's the only thing."












Reasons to support the bail out.

1. Better the Big 3 than the Banks
2. Profits here, instead of over there.
3. Jobs
4. Nationalism
5. Because I'd hate to see the United States look like another Mexico, or another 3rd world country that does not have its own automobile industry.
6. There are no solid US Companies outside of the Big 3 that could capture market share. Tesla Motors and their Tesla Roadster are rumored to be losing money on each unit (poor execution, at $80,000+ I don't think it would have mattered has they tacked another $50K on to the price. Besides, at that price level it's nothing more than a status symbol.)
7. Trade Deficit
8. If we can keep the government from interfering the Big 3 should be able to turn themselves around any pay off the loans. I give them better odds of doing it than I give AIG, which lost another $10 Billion this last quarter.
9. The suppliers and the jobs they provide
10. The service jobs that depend on the employees of the Big 3.
11. I hate Toyota/Honda/Mitsubishi, and think they are nothing but ugly little cars for ugly little people.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Pat Buchanan is overstating the case. Chapter 11 will restructure the companies and make them profitable. Some of the airlines did it years ago and came back much stronger as a result.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Geeze Brutal, You really amaze me sometimes. I always knew that somewhere in your mind was a real comon sense approach to problems. Now if we can just convince the rest of the union haters that their view is really about Union Busting and not about saving the companies. This is about saving the companies and about 3 million+ decent jobs. If left to fail, that would allow The auto makers to file bankruptcy and burn all those small satellite manufacturers, fire all union employees and hire them back at 8-10 bucks an hr, with no benefits, a republicans dream. This would be the greatest catastrophe since Reagon fired the Air traffic controllers, in fact it would make that look like a walk in the park. Talk about the trickle down effect. We know what that is, shit rolls downhill.
 

cheeseysynapse

Well-Known Member
United States senators do not legislate in their states' congress. They write federal law, not state law.

Also, when a person declares bankruptcy do they die? When the airlines went into Ch. 11 did the planes fall out of the sky?

It's called Chapter 11 bankruptcy PROTECTION for a reason...........companies come out of it all the time....

Ch.11 will not be the "death" of american autos. It will simply allow them to restructure themselves, which has been needed for a very long time.

The republicans have no problem sinning against Friedman, take the latest farm bill, medicare, and all the pork of the last 4 years. Republicans are just poll watching on this one, going with what the sheep want.

You wanna talk trickle down Medicine? Explain how trickle up works?
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Geeze Brutal, You really amaze me sometimes. I always knew that somewhere in your mind was a real comon sense approach to problems. Now if we can just convince the rest of the union haters that their view is really about Union Busting and not about saving the companies. This is about saving the companies and about 3 million+ decent jobs. If left to fail, that would allow The auto makers to file bankruptcy and burn all those small satellite manufacturers, fire all union employees and hire them back at 8-10 bucks an hr, with no benefits, a republicans dream. This would be the greatest catastrophe since Reagon fired the Air traffic controllers, in fact it would make that look like a walk in the park. Talk about the trickle down effect. We know what that is, shit rolls downhill.
The Unions Deserve it,

and not all of those 3 Million Jobs are decent jobs, a lot of them are suppliers, and independent companies that depend on patronage from the Big 3 or their employees for their existence.

Though I have to agree with ViRedd, Chapter 11 (Re-Organization) would be a more viable solution, because it would force them to take a long hard look at their operations, and possibly sell off a few brands each.

More competition in the markets, especially if it's American Brands that they sell off.

The Big 3 are a colossal failure when it comes to displaying how economies of scale work. Ideally the unit cost goes down, but that only goes on for so long, before the increased overhead of additional managers wipes out any benefit.

Probably too much of a pyramid, they need to cut the middle instead of the front line. Though some fat probably needs to be cut at the top. Too many VPs of this, that, and the other.
 

Cannabox

Well-Known Member
What are Republicans thinking of, pulling the plug, at Christmas, on GM, risking swift death for the greatest manufacturing company in American history, a strategic asset and pillar of the U.S. economy.
really the greatest? and we even have to think about bailing them out? doesn't sound like something 'the greatest' company would have to have done to it.. just a thought.. seems like they would have cut over spending on items to compete in a global market. but failed to do so resulting in a "bail me out" card. and you even stated that we raised tariffs on imports so we have a 'fair competition' yet STILL failed to compete. and they still deserve the bail out? .. it stems from failed business practices, rewarding people for remaining idle in their lives. you keep this job and we will pay you more and more each year for doing this same job.. that is the reason we have so much inflation.

if i could hire a monkey to push a button all day for the cost of bananas, then i should pay a human a little more than bananas to do that same job. that is just logic. there is NO reason to pay someone more for a job that could be done for practically nothing.

if i could train a monkey to program applications, i would, and move on to bigger and better things. the problem is that most people don't want to do better things, they just want to do monkey work and get paid doctor salary.
 

cheeseysynapse

Well-Known Member
What to do with all those union dues...................Now I know why Blago wanted to head up the SEIU!

http://www.michigangolfmagazine.com/reviews/black-lake.html

The "Money" part is near the end............ "Owned and operated by the United Auto Workers union, Black Lake is a public course that provides UAW members and retirees substantial discounts from the regular greens fees. But even at regular rates of up to $95 per round, Black Lake is worth the price. Tee time reservations are accepted up to 14 days in advance for UAW members, and three days in advance for public play."

So, instead of returning the hard earned money to their members...........what does the Union Chieftans do with the excess cash, even after lobbying, they build a fucking golf course!
 

medicineman

New Member
What to do with all those union dues...................Now I know why Blago wanted to head up the SEIU!

http://www.michigangolfmagazine.com/reviews/black-lake.html

The "Money" part is near the end............ "Owned and operated by the United Auto Workers union, Black Lake is a public course that provides UAW members and retirees substantial discounts from the regular greens fees. But even at regular rates of up to $95 per round, Black Lake is worth the price. Tee time reservations are accepted up to 14 days in advance for UAW members, and three days in advance for public play."

So, instead of returning the hard earned money to their members...........what does the Union Chieftans do with the excess cash, even after lobbying, they build a fucking golf course!
So, it's just fine for there to be a few thousand golf courses for the white collar dudes, but build one Blue collar golf course.....................Talk about hypocracy.
 

cheeseysynapse

Well-Known Member
Yes med, it is fine. What isn't fine is using union dues for whatever the hell you damn well please. If you put a union vote to it, give the excess union dues back to the members or build a golf course, I wonder how that would go down.

The few thousand golf courses you speak of............WERE BUILT BY PEOPLE WANTING TO BUILD A GOLF COURSE. I'm sure when the UAW was formed, all the union employees wanted was a kick ass golf course..........

I know its hard to understand the difference............I'm only here to help.
 

medicineman

New Member
Yes med, it is fine. What isn't fine is using union dues for whatever the hell you damn well please. If you put a union vote to it, give the excess union dues back to the members or build a golf course, I wonder how that would go down.

The few thousand golf courses you speak of............WERE BUILT BY PEOPLE WANTING TO BUILD A GOLF COURSE. I'm sure when the UAW was formed, all the union employees wanted was a kick ass golf course..........

I know its hard to understand the difference............I'm only here to help.
So, you are taking the position that you know more than me. I suppose that includes life experience also. I'm pretty sure I've got more of that than you, and all that book learnin really ain't gonna help you when the shit hits the fan. Why didn't the company build the blue collar dudes a golf course, oh, that's right, they were too busy building their own and making damn sure the blue collar boys couldn't afford to go there. Maybe thats what all those nice little fat bonus checks were for, paying the exhorbitant fees at the boss' golf course.
 

medicineman

New Member
Now, let's look at this for a prospect. Since venture capitalists were the originators of the big three, and have been paid back a few thousand times over in good times, why not have a profit sharing plan, If they make a profit, everyone shares, if not, they fire the bosses and get a new gameplan. Bosses should be in charge of making the company profitable and still maintaining decent wages for their employees. If not then that company does not belong in business, But you have to curtail the excess pork at the top before you start elimination of the bottom. When the workers are being layed off in record numbers and the bosses are getting huge bonnuses, there is something wrong with that picture.
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
wait, they allready do that except they share the profits with shareholders not employees.
 

cheeseysynapse

Well-Known Member
Someone already thought of that med......

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TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
wait, they allready do that except they share the profits with shareholders not employees.
The employees can easily become shareholders.

And it's really not that expensive, $4 + the cost of a single share, or less (depends on the brokerage)

Of course, with 401Ks its likely cheaper than that, and that is also profit sharing, employer matching contributions.

If that isn't enough for you, there's also Roth IRAs, and if that's still not enough, you can purchase shares.

Doesn't require a lot of effort either.
 
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